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thebigfeller

There's three main problems at Norwich City

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Badger posted it on one of the threads on here yesterday, happy trawling for it

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Leeds are going up!!!!

They might well do Bigfeller; they’re currently 5/4 with SkyBet. How much have you lumped on? More than doubling your money for something already decided? We should all get stuck in really.

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Here is the link

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11096/11373570/sky-sports-ultimate-league-201718-overachieving-and-underachieving-clubs-revealed

It shows we''ve had the 17th highest average position but that position is 22.5- so basically the top end of the Championship.

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One other thing on all this. There''s no more competitive club structure anywhere in world football than in England - and it''s not close either. The pyramid works beautifully, wondrously: punishing failure, rewarding success, providing a route back for fallen giants, providing real hope for all sorts of smaller clubs.
Amidst this structure, each and every season becomes more ruthlessly cutthroat. Guess what? Some clubs fail. Other clubs succeed. Apparently, we''re meant to look at the failures and think "oh noooo, we shouldn''t even try!" It''s laughable, myopic and quite miserably pathetic. Our entire attitude is the very opposite of what professional, competitive sport is supposed to involve.
Most other clubs embrace the challenge, equip themselves (through funding) as best they can, and get on with it. We, by contrast, take the most perverse satisfaction in doing it ''differently''. And in behaving in such a way, we create a self-fulfilling prophecy: in which we can never truly grow, never properly enhance our profile or stature, and thus do not matter to onlookers everywhere.

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Ah yes I stand corrected 22.5 which is 17th best in the country. So an average of 2nd and 3rd in the Championship. Which should see us playing top flight football regularly then. 38th at the minute and massively underachieving

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[quote user="king canary"]Maybe Farke can take you and your pretentious nonsense with him Westcoast.[/quote] [:D] Another reason for wanting Farke out, every bit as good as the other reasons trotted out on here!

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king canary wrote the following post at 27/08/2018 6:28 PM:

I did once crunch the numbers and our average position under this current ownership is lower than this 22.5 average.

Any idea on what it was?

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"]
Damned right I point to losses "off the park". I love the way you are trying to marginalise and so diminish massive losses, as if they have no effect on how a club can perform, especially in the context of your desire for Norwich City to be taken over by someone whose modus operandi would almost certainly similarly be to flood the accounts with red ink.
[/quote]
So Brighton are going bust then? RIP Seagulls, thoughts with the friends and family? I must remember to warn their fans - who were last seen delirious with excitement at their team just having beaten Manchester United. It''s surely only a matter of time before their club dies... right?
If not, then what is your point?

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[quote user="JF"]king canary wrote the following post at 27/08/2018 6:28 PM:

I did once crunch the numbers and our average position under this current ownership is lower than this 22.5 average.

Any idea on what it was?[/quote]
If my mental maths are correct, it''s just short of 28th.

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[quote user="JF"]Ah yes I stand corrected 22.5 which is 17th best in the country. So an average of 2nd and 3rd in the Championship. Which should see us playing top flight football regularly then. 38th at the minute and massively underachieving[/quote]
Only because you choose a period of time that includes our best years in order to prove a point which means nothing. 
Our average position under these owners is 28th. In this current landscape I can live with that.

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These scare stories of clubs going bust and to the wall are to a degree worth taking note of. Yet as of now I can’t think of a single one in England that has, as in they are all still in existence. some at a lower level like Coventry and Portsmouth some like Southampton in the PL but still all there. None have actually been wound up and cease to be as far as I’m aware

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[quote user="JF"]king canary wrote the following post at 27/08/2018 6:28 PM:

I did once crunch the numbers and our average position under this current ownership is lower than this 22.5 average.

Any idea on what it was?[/quote]

I would guesstimate somewhere around 28/29.

Of course, we’ll need to level the playing field in order to make a judgment. Not everyone can be Chase; inheriting a side that had recently won a major trophy....😉

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I didn’t choose it. Sky Sports did. Maybe they thought it gives a fairer reflection of natural position because it evens out the advantages of the money in the game now

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[quote user=" Badger"]
[quote user="Jim Smith"]Who says anything about wanting to “pile on excessive debt.” The problem with this debate, like so many these days, is that any nuance becomes lost as the issue is not black and white.

Fulham, Watford, Bournemouth, Brighton, Leicester, Southampton, Cardiff, Wolves all examples the other way.

The main point for me though is that clubs of the size of Norwich just don’t go bust and disappear so it’s really a case of do we want to continue to play it safe or take a bit of a chance knowing that the possible fallout could be a Portsmouth type spell in league 1.[/quote]
So Jim, how much debt are you talking about when you talk about "taking a bit of a chance?"
The club may not disappear if they go bust, but they may well end up like Coventry, Ipswich, Leeds, Sheffield Wednesday, Forest etc, who end up spending far longer in the lower leagues, than they would have done if they hadn''t had a "sh*t or bust gamble."
[/quote]

I’m not talking about a sh*t or bust gamble, but the point is having a wealthy owner gives you that extra edge. They pay for the training ground or the ground improvements. They can increase turnover through sponsorships etc. They can help with the cash flow meaning you don’t have to sell before you can buy (or sell to the first half decent offer) or perhaps even hold on to that star player for an extra season enabling you to build a team rather than constantly dismantling it and starting again. They can help guarantee a sustainable level of debt or in some cases the debt is to them so it’s not “debt” in the orthodox sense of the word because it’s not going to be called in. They can enable you to take a calculated gamble in terms of maybe signing that player or making that loan signing who makes the difference.

IF you find the right one, obviously.

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Well, we might currently be 38th but our league position for this season has no bearing on the provided figures and will not do so until next May.

I wonder how much that 22.5 figure would change if we finished 1st or 24th....

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Our average position under these owners is 28th. In this current landscape I can live with that.

This current landscape isn’t changing any time soon, if ever.

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[quote user="JF"]Our average position under these owners is 28th. In this current landscape I can live with that.

This current landscape isn’t changing any time soon, if ever.[/quote]
28th means a few seasons in the PL. Maybe one season in league one. What makes you think we could do better? What you criticise our owners for is not achieving what we achieved in our best 25 years in a league that bears absolutely no resemblance to the league now. A level head would say they have been successful. That''s why the critics always point to what they think will happen if they stay rather than what has happened while they''ve been here. Except of course the continual reference to that league one season.

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[quote user="thebigfeller"]
Chase''s average league finish was 14.5. Almost exactly half that of his successors.
All hail, Big Bob...[:P]
[/quote]
This is the one-eyed stuff that your biannual rants are made up of Shaun. You got away with it in 2009 but to be fair you were totally wrong in everything you said then. And coming back everytime things get a bit tough only works with those who don''t remember.[:P]

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No. What i criticise our owners for is not accepting that football has changed from a time that they yearn it to return to. Football has moved on from a time when the local builder of a Chef can’ own a club the size of Norwich and hope to keep up with the rest. Money rules now and it’s very admirable trying to buck the trend without it but it won’t change a thing. Money will continue to rule and we will likely slip further behind, maybe ending up at a level with the likes of Coventry and Portsmouth that seem to be the warning of what we could be if a ‘foreign’ owner came in. Have they been successful? I’d argue that yes, with the resources at their disposal they probably have. But why stand in the way of the club possibly getting larger resources and seeing if someone else can do more? This has become Delia Smiths Norwich City and one person should never be bigger than the club

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[quote user="JF"]No. What i criticise our owners for is not accepting that football has changed from a time that they yearn it to return to. Football has moved on from a time when the local builder of a Chef can’ own a club the size of Norwich and hope to keep up with the rest. Money rules now and it’s very admirable trying to buck the trend without it but it won’t change a thing. Money will continue to rule and we will likely slip further behind, maybe ending up at a level with the likes of Coventry and Portsmouth that seem to be the warning of what we could be if a ‘foreign’ owner came in. Have they been successful? I’d argue that yes, with the resources at their disposal they probably have. But why stand in the way of the club possibly getting larger resources and seeing if someone else can do more? This has become Delia Smiths Norwich City and one person should never be bigger than the club[/quote]
This only works if you assume they''ve blocked investment that would have been good for the club. That would be a big call to make without anything to back it up. If it could be proved their support would fall away in the manner you hope it to. I have absolutely no reason to suspect it has happened. Those that say it has seem to conveniently forget that Alan Bowkett actively sought investment that would be good for our club when we were at our highest under these owners.

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[quote user="JF"]No. What i criticise our owners for is not accepting that football has changed from a time that they yearn it to return to. Football has moved on from a time when the local builder of a Chef can’ own a club the size of Norwich and hope to keep up with the rest. Money rules now and it’s very admirable trying to buck the trend without it but it won’t change a thing. Money will continue to rule and we will likely slip further behind, maybe ending up at a level with the likes of Coventry and Portsmouth that seem to be the warning of what we could be if a ‘foreign’ owner came in. Have they been successful? I’d argue that yes, with the resources at their disposal they probably have. But why stand in the way of the club possibly getting larger resources and seeing if someone else can do more? This has become Delia Smiths Norwich City and one person should never be bigger than the club[/quote]

100% this... I think their approach is arrogant and spoiling the legacy they could have left behind.

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As has been said many times, when you announce that no foreigners will ever be buying the club from them then they are not going to knock the door down to buy it are they? They will simply just go elsewhere as they are not fans and it likely doesn’t bother them what club to a degree they end up with. Some people would hate that type of owner, but that’s the landscape now and if we want the club to have serious money then that’s the gamble we take. If you don’t buy a ticket you can’t win the lottery. They are not buying tickets I’m afraid

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Not just no foreigners the club is not for sale and I don’t believe it ever has been. They are interested in people who may be prepared to invest without gaining control but no idiot is going to put significant money in on that basis.

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