Oliviera's here until at least January then?!?....

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 2,035]

....can we expect to be seeing him in the match day squad anytime soon?.

Pretty hard to justify leaving what is probably still our best striker out of an 18 man squad when your languishing in the bottom 6....

[danielsroundabout 9]

The window doesn''t close today in all countries and the one that I believe is last to close is NO''s home of Portugal. Around 20th September.

[Bill 1,788]

err, this was explained to you earlier today

as in

''I think you will find that the

Portuguese transfer window is open for another 3 weeks after today, so

Senor Olive Oil still has plenty of time to head off home.''

[BroadstairsR 2,273]

"Best striker."

Covers a multitude of attributes, attitude being one.

The Portuguese loan market is still open. There is hope yet.

[Canary Wundaboy 1,423]

Don''t rate him above Rhodes.

[danielsroundabout 9]

Err sorry Ben, if it is on another thread I missed it. As in I don''t live on here.

[Alex Moss 2,167]

He’s clearly one of those players that needs an arm around the shoulder from time to time, but personally I’d love it if things work out and he stays. Still feel he’s comfortably the best striker we have, and I bet he’d bang them in playing in one of Farke’s new more attack minded line ups - the days of the 40 yard potshots he was mainly restricted to would be gone!

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 2,035]

[quote user="Canary Wundaboy"]Don''t rate him above Rhodes.[/quote]

.

From what I''ve seen of rhodes so far , Oliveira is superior....whilst he''s on our payroll I''d rather be attempting to integrate him rather than casting aside.

I wonder what sort of partnership he and Pukki could forge for instance?....

......if he hangs around long enough he might just outlast Farke....and we could be talking the matter of days if not weeks.....another manager may well see him as integral

[Bill 1,788]

[quote user="danielsroundabout"]Err sorry Ben, if it is on another thread I missed it. As in I don''t live on here.[/quote]

err, the post was not aimed at you

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 2,035]

...if it was aimed at me...I don''t remember anyone ''explaining'' anything...

[Bill 1,788]

[quote user="BroadstairsR"]"Best striker."

Covers a multitude of attributes, attitude being one.

The Portuguese loan market is still open. There is hope yet.[/quote]

it''s actually their transfer window that is open for another 3 weeks

so still plenty of time yet time to sell him

[Bill 1,788]

[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]...if it was aimed at me...I don''t remember anyone ''explaining'' anything...[/quote]

http://services.pinkun.com/forums/pinkun-forums/cs/forums/3649485/ShowPost.aspx

[Creative Midfielder 2,203]

[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]....can we expect to be seeing him in the match day squad anytime soon?.

Pretty hard to justify leaving what is probably still our best striker out of an 18 man squad when your languishing in the bottom 6....[/quote]

Hopefully not, and I''d love to know on what basis you''re assessing him as ''probably our best striker'' - presumably some quality other than actually scoring goals.

Last season we only managed to average a fraction over a goal a game, this season so far without NO being anywhere near the squad we have averaged 2 a game. So our league position may not be great but this has absolutely nothing to do with not playing our ''best'' striker.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 2,035]

.....so who IS our best striker on the books if not Oliveira?

..not sure if Pukki can be classed as a striker but even if he is , he''s not better than Oliveira? ....Rhodes? ?. after his scoring record these past couple of seasons?...Srbeny??....I''m all ears.

.

PS maybe it''s Adam Idah and none of us know it yet??

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 2,035]

......and I suspect last season''s low goals total was largely down to Farke''s way of playing, Oliveira didnt exactly have much service and in the main had to come deep and create his own chances .

....you''ve perhaps forgotten the season before where we were joint top scorers in the league with Newcastle and Brighton with 85 goals....in which oliviera was very much part of

[Clint 221]

Our best striker will always be one that’s not playing as the one that does play generally doesn’t score enough. Currently Rhodes is in that role and for no fault of his own, has had absolutely no service for the last two matches. Had Nelson, Jerome, Srbeny, Morris, even Kane have been playing, they would not have scored either.

I’d be surprised if any forward gets more than 10 goals in a season whilst Farke is in charge.

[Creative Midfielder 2,203]

[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"].....so who IS our best striker on the books if not Oliveira?

..not sure if Pukki can be classed as a striker but even if he is , he''s not better than Oliveira? ....Rhodes? ?. after his scoring record these past couple of seasons?...Srbeny??....I''m all ears.

.

PS maybe it''s Adam Idah and none of us know it yet??[/quote]

Ok, well stats aren''t everything but here''s some for you anyway:

Nelson''s pro career stats across his various clubs are 194 appearances, 39 goals, i.e goal ratio of virtually 1 goal in 5.

Pukki''s pro career stats are 244 appearances, 91 goals, i.e. goal ratio of 1 goal in 2.7 games - notice a slight difference??

Rhodes pro career stats are 391 appearances, 182 goals, i.e. goal ratio of 1 goal in  just over 2 games - notice an even bigger difference??

Now you can argue all day long about different levels of football, different team setups etc etc but I think if our ''best'' striker has a career average of 1 in 5 then we have a problem, as we did last year when he was our main striker.

The stats, and what I''ve seen so far this season, say that both Rhodes and Pukki, are better.

Srbeny and Idah, hard to say - at the moment probably not (although Sbreny seems to progressing nicely). But in a year or two''s time then I would say they have the potential to be better as well, but of course potential isn''t always realised. But with them waiting in the wings (plus Spyrou) then its difficult to see how NO will ever get a game, especially given that he doesn''t appear to have the attitude/motivation to force his way into contention.

[rock bus 1,059]

Regardless of stats, Oliviera appears a bit of an idiot to put it mildly.

I’d be glad to get rid, but fact no one else seems to want him suggests he is now known as having a poor attitude.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 2,035]

Well he''s missed the boat in transferring to another English club....and has just over 2 hours? ...to move to any of the top European leagues . He may well be Portuguese but as someone who must still be on a decent wage, the Portuguese league is hardly awash with cash so unless he''s got a move lined up to one the the bigger sides , a benfica, Porto or sporting, he''s painted himself into a corner , is the MLS or China or Qatar still open to him I wonder??

[daly 551]

Oliviera has had more loans than Wonga

Get rid of the waster

2010

→ Rio Ave (loan) 12 (0)

2010–2011

→ Paços Ferreira (loan) 31 (5)

2012–2013

→ Deportivo La Coruña (loan) 31 (4)

2013–2014

→ Rennes (loan) 35 (8)

2015

→ Swansea City (loan) 11 (1)

2015–2016

→ Nottingham Forest (loan) 29 (9)

[hampton canary 24]

I guess Oliveira is more than happy as he is still getting a nice monthly pay packet, isn''t playing and probably not putting much effort in on the training ground, It speaks volumes that he has not gone to any other club here because nobody is prepared to waste money on him.

I really look forward to the day when we can get him and Naismith off our wage bill.

[kick it off 2,062]

[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]......and I suspect last season''s low goals total was largely down to Farke''s way of playing, Oliveira didnt exactly have much service and in the main had to come deep and create his own chances .

....you''ve perhaps forgotten the season before where we were joint top scorers in the league with Newcastle and Brighton with 85 goals....in which oliviera was very much part of[/quote]

I think there''s two sides to that coin.

I agree with you to an extent. The playing style did not suit Oliviera last season, but I think some of it is just his own personal attributes.

The other side, is I don''t think it suits him much better this season. Nelson is not going to be getting on the end of balls whipped into the box etc, as that''s not really his strength.

I think Rhodes is a far better fit for this system. He wins the ball in the air, he chases lost causes and most importantly he gets in the 6 yard box and causes a nuisance. I only saw Nelson really impress me with his workrate and chasing down defenders once last season - Forest away. Aside from that, although he did it periodically, I never really though "wow, Nelson is really working his balls off for the team" all that often.

As to which is more talented, it''s almost a moot point. I think Nelson is a more complete finisher, in so much as he can score goals from a greater radius from the goal than Rhodes can, but in the box I think they''re both fairly similar. Rhodes gets into dangerous areas far more frequently and doesn''t tend to drift out wide like Nelson did. Whether the drifting was a consequence of the system, or a consequence of Nelson is probably up for debate. I err on the side of it being a NO issue but that''s just my 2 cents.

I think all things being equal, over the course of a season Rhodes would score more goals in this team. That''s not to say Rhodes is a better player than Nelson, but I think he fits the system a lot better. I think Nelson would score better goals and probably get 3 or 4 more assists than Rhodes, but he doesn''t have that same poachers instinct to score the scrappy 2 yard tap ins which we''ve already seen Rhodes do, and I think as the team comes together we will see an awful lot of balls flashed across the box with Rhodes on the end of it.

[kick it off 2,062]

[quote user="rock bus"]Regardless of stats, Oliviera appears a bit of an idiot to put it mildly.

I’d be glad to get rid, but fact no one else seems to want him suggests he is now known as having a poor attitude.[/quote]

Exactly my thoughts.

Talented as he may be, he doesn''t have the attitude or work ethic to improve - he appears to be quite arrogant and entitled.

If he is this incredibly talented forward that is rotting in the reserves and would transform the team into title contenders, then ask yourself why he''s not even in the squad of a manager who has pressure mounting on his job. 

Nelson''s biggest problem is Nelson. There''s a reason that he never sticks at a club much longer than a year despite his talents.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 2,035]

.......and there''s people on this thread trying to tell me that rhodes is better than Oliveira? ......not a cat in hells chance

[Creative Midfielder 2,203]

[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"].......and there''s people on this thread trying to tell me that rhodes is better than Oliveira? ......not a cat in hells chance[/quote]

Well it very much depends on what you mean by ''better'' - if you mean who is the more technically gifted player then I think a lot of people will agree with you that it is NO.

But if you mean who is the most effective goal scorer then it is indisputably Rhodes - as I pointed out earlier, for every two goals NO scores Rhodes scores five so there isn''t really even a debate.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 2,035]

Depends how far back you''re going in their respective records....rhodes has done nothing in the last 2 seasons and was ineffectual for the 3rd game running again today.

Football has changed...clubs can no longer carry a striker who purely acts on being given "service'' whilst offering very little else, this is why RVW was never going to be a success....what may have worked for rhodes 6-8 seasons ago doesn''t today.

Strkers need to offer much more and have a more all round game.

Farke needs to bury the hatchet and get Oliveira back on side ....and quick

[Creative Midfielder 2,203]

[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]Depends how far back you''re going in their respective records....rhodes has done nothing in the last 2 seasons and was ineffectual for the 3rd game running again today.

Football has changed...clubs can no longer carry a striker who purely acts on being given "service'' whilst offering very little else, this is why RVW was never going to be a success....what may have worked for rhodes 6-8 seasons ago doesn''t today.

Strkers need to offer much more and have a more all round game.

Farke needs to bury the hatchet and get Oliveira back on side ....and quick[/quote]

I''m talking about their entire careers, and whilst things do change NO''s stats show that he has never been prolific at any stage in his career.

If you want to look at recent form then NO was our main striker last season and scored, I think, 6 or 7 league goals and contributed very little else which put him behind both Josh and Maddison who scored mainly solo efforts as well as providing far more assists than NO.

If you think NO is the answer then fine, we all see things differently, but I think you are very much in the minority amongst Canary fans. This is pure guesswork on my part but I would say that Farke was very patient with NO and actually gave him far more starts than his form warrented last season but now, after the summer signings, has clearly decided that he has better options available and certainly IMO he is right - in our first 7 games Rhodes has 2 goals, Henandez has 2, Sbreny has 2 and Pukki has 3 - there''s NO''s output for last season covered already!!

[Fiery Zac 1,066]

As a goal scorer, a striker to hold the ball up, a forward to flick the ball on and as a human being, Rhodes is a much better player.

[hogesar 10,762]

Should speak volumes that another English club didnt sign him even though we were desperate to sell.

Admittedly one fell through, apparently on his personal terms. The sooner we arent paying for him the better.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 2,035]

Seems the Portuguese window shutting at the end of Sept was an error afterall. .....over to you Farke , you may need him to save your job