Serena Williams

[TIL 1010 4,722]

[quote user="FenwayFrank"]I love the way she screams “ I’ve got a daughter !! “ like no other woman in the world has had a baby 😀[/quote]

She probably thinks she is FF as i have just been reading where she insisted on having an entire floor at the hospital cleared and made available for her at the birth to retain her privacy.

[......and Smith must score. 1,336]

[quote user="Haggerdoo"]A poor loser just like Lewis Hamilton - all smiles when they win but throw the toys out and quick to blame others when it doesn''t go their way[/quote]

Deservedly so Lewis Hamilton must be the most unloved British F1 driver of all time.

[TIL 1010 4,722]

[quote user="......and Smith must score."]

[quote user="Haggerdoo"]A poor loser just like Lewis Hamilton - all smiles when they win but throw the toys out and quick to blame others when it doesn''t go their way[/quote]

Deservedly so Lewis Hamilton must be the most unloved British F1 driver of all time.

[/quote]

I have never forgiven him for Nicole Scherzinger.

[Indy 3,286]

Unless that particular umpire has a history of not punishing the men doing the same, how can Williams and the WTA have any credibility with the Sexism card?

Utter rubbish, she’s a poor loser who got punished for being coached, her coach even confirmed he was coaching, then broke her racket and went onto losing control.

As far as I’m concerned I think he deserves a medal for putting up with this tantrum.

We all say how well respected rugby referees are and how rugby players react, why can’t other sports do the same!

Got what she deserves and I feel sorry for the poor Osaka who’s win has been overshadowed by the ill mannered American.

[Surfer 1,547]

There definitely is something going on over here; between very senior executives being kicked out of their positions for multiple sexual abuses (CBS TV head just the latest example) and a Supreme Court nominee who is going to get appointed who wants to cripple the legal right to abortions, it''s a very heated atmosphere around respect for women.

With regard to this example, yes she was upset on the coaching warning, but she didn''t have to smash her racquet into the ground; after that she went on a long rant at the umpire and accused him of cheating. So while I have some sympathy for her, at the end of the day she was in control of the outcome and she didn''t take that opportunity.

[Branston Pickle 3,638]

What a lot of people who are crying out about this don''t get is that it was a cumulative thing - the first punishment is a warning, then a point, then a game… it is unusual for it to get to that point, players will have their rant/break the racquet and just get the warning, so you almost don''t notice. There''s a list of what is punishable and her outburst sits in it fair and square. Williams really has no leg to stand on and playing the sexism card is pretty disgraceful; I''m just glad race didn''t come into her claims against one of the best umpires in the game.

[Surfer 1,547]

Serena, to her credit didn''t. But the race card is clearly in play ahead of the November elections. The "uppity black" meme is in full view, with criticism of NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem in protest against multiple killings of black teenagers, the "jungle drums" robo-calls against the black Florida governor candidate, and now Serena being doubly guilty of being black and female. So it''s a pretty toxic brew, and this above situation was immediately sucked into the broader political fight.

[BobLoz3 492]

Do any of you realise that she nearly died in child birth? She also received a fair bit of flack for wearing a compression suit while playing, which was to avoid potentially life threatening blood clots. All this after the aforementioned nearly dying thing.Whatever you think, there is no denying that this woman has done SO much for the world of tennis. And I''m not even a massive fan of the sport. I can just appreciate greatness when I see it!

[Guest]

Do any of you realise that she nearly died in child birth?

That has little or no bearing on this. I nearly died as a youngster but don''t go around telling the world about it so I can behave badly.

She is just a bad loser and ruined her opponents day. She should apologise publicly.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="keelansgrandad"]Do any of you realise that she nearly died in child birth?

That has little or no bearing on this. I nearly died as a youngster but don''t go around telling the world about it so I can behave badly.

She is just a bad loser and ruined her opponents day. She should apologise publicly.[/quote]

This^^^  Her ego has always been fragile.  Really great players do not need to lose their cool like she did, especially when they have been in the game as long as she has.  There is a book called "Winning ugly" by Brad Gilbert.  She has made a career of it, brutalising and intimidating opponents in a way that - for me - has spoiled watching many ladies tennis finals for the last twenty years.  She has now achieved the opposite - losing ugly.  Can''t deny her her victories, her brute force has put her at the top of the game - but this loss was awful to watch.

[FenwayFrank 2,457]

The other thing that got me was when the Japanese girl was in tears at the end, Williams puts her arm round her to console her in a “ it’s all the nasty umpires fault” way.

[FenwayFrank 2,457]

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/sep/11/repugnant-racist-news-corp-cartoon-serena-williams-mark-knight

Clicky please

[BobLoz3 492]

[quote user="keelansgrandad"]Do any of you realise that she nearly died in child birth?

That has little or no bearing on this. I nearly died as a youngster but don''t go around telling the world about it so I can behave badly.

She is just a bad loser and ruined her opponents day. She should apologise publicly.[/quote]I meant SHE nearly died while giving birth to her child. It was a reference to someone saying she took out the whole top floor of a hospital to give birth. She has tonnes of complications with it. It wasn''t that long ago yet she is still out there playing and trying to give it her all.Many, many things are messed up with some of the comments on here. I''m not even going into it anymore.Last word is for whoever wants it!

[......and Smith must score. 1,336]

[quote user="BobLoz3"]Do any of you realise that she nearly died in child birth? She also received a fair bit of flack for wearing a compression suit while playing, which was to avoid potentially life threatening blood clots. All this after the aforementioned nearly dying thing.Whatever you think, there is no denying that this woman has done SO much for the world of tennis. And I''m not even a massive fan of the sport. I can just appreciate greatness when I see it!

[/quote]

Multi-millionaire nearly dies in childbirth then risks her child being motherless so she can continue in a job where she''s  already won everything going.

Maybe '' selfish '' is the last word ?

[canarydan23 4,060]

I don''t think you guys watch a great deal of Tennis, do you?

She was wrong in her reaction but all these people saying, "he would have done the same if it was a man" are either a little bit ignorant or naive.

The whole coaching things happens in every single game, bar one involving Lendl as he just sits there though it''s widely accepted that he has a code to communicate with his players on the court.

A few years ago I was at Wimbledon with a ground pass and was watching Mikhail Youzhny on one of the minor courts. I bagged a front row seat in the corner and was soon sh*t myself when Youzhny had a bit of a wobbler and started walking towards me shouting in Russian. I then realised that he was actually shouting to the gentleman two seats to my left; his coach. The whole match the two of them were in constant dialogue. This is not unusual.

Have a little search for Viktor Troicki and look at some of his outbursts. He called an umpire "the worst in the world", received a single warning but continued his tirade. Was there a point deduction? Was there a game penalty? Did the ranter have a vagina?

A few months back, Australian player Thanasi Kokkinakis said the f-word, once in conversation with the umpire and once in conversation with his opponent. No penalty.

And if you want a similar comparison to the men''s game, take the best ever Roger Federer, he accused the umpire of "stealing" his challenge after a technical issue with the system. Outcome? No warning, more of an apologetic shrug.

And as for the poster who mentioned Tarango, he was not expelled from the court, he walked off.

[FenwayFrank 2,457]

Canarydan is actually canary Ann and I claim £10 😉

[lake district canary 4,531]

She called the umpire a thief for goodness sakes.  Tennis umpires can be tolerant to a certain point of over emotional rantings and swearing by males or females - football refs put up with it most of the time - but this umpire was subject to something else - abuse of his professional integrity - she might have got away with saying she had been robbed (which she did say) but then to directly label hm a thief  was over the line. 

She says she has said much worse to an umpire, well I doubt it.

[Nuff Said 5,092]

Wow.

A lot of middle-aged white men tell a black woman what is and isn’t sexist.

[Nuff Said 5,092]

And for the avoidance of doubt, I am stereotyping the PinkUn readship to highlight the use of stereotypes by posters on here.

[BobLoz3 492]

[quote user="Nuff Said"]Wow.

A lot of middle-aged white men tell a black woman what is and isn’t sexist.[/quote]THANK YOU!See my previous post on the first page of this thread.Utter madness.That IS the last word from me.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="Nuff Said"]Wow.

A lot of middle-aged white men tell a black woman what is and isn’t sexist.[/quote]

What does being a "black" woman have to do with it? 

Also, the umpire has a record of giving out penalties for code violations against male and female tennis players - including coaching from the sidelines - so why was this particular case sexist?   Because he didn''t make allowances for being called a thief?  I suspect if a male player had called him that, I suspect he would have been defaulted there and then and forfeited the match.  So maybe Serena got off lightly after having been warned already about smashing her racket.  There is no point in having an umpire if they can''t uphold the rules of the game. 

The sexist card was just a cowardly get out for Serena. Unfortunately, the extremists in the feminine activist lobby are having a field day with it - extremists who spoil womens'' genuine cases of sexism by labelling every tiny thing that happens against them as being "sexist". 

[king canary 7,580]

"I suspect if a male player had called him that, I suspect he would have been defaulted there and then and forfeited the match."

What makes you suspect that? Cos I''ve not seen any evidence of that...

[Guest]

So what you''re saying is that middle-aged white men aren''t allowed an opinion on anything involving minority ethnicity and/or female tennis players? What do you think the outcome is if we take that argument all the way to its logical conclusion?

[Mason 47 1,373]

''I think'', if Nick Kyrgios had acted the same way and got the same punishment, it wouldn''t be because he''s a man, it would be because hes an arse and that would be the last of it. Serena Williams acted like an arse and made a fool of herself (in front of her home crowd no less) as a self-proclaimed role model for young women everywhere, but chose to play her bonus bamboozle card and call the gender politics brigade in to cover her arsery.

Furthermore, a player of her experience surely must know that this umpire is widely-accepted as a stickler for the rulebook and won''t bend to player power. Even at Sunday league football level, if a referee is known for being a bit card-happy or Collina-esque then you know not to push it.

It''s all academic now anyway but I''d be very interested to know if you swapped the umpire''s gender here, would there still be an argument?

[SwindonCanary 455]

[Lazza 25]

If we turn it around... if the umpire was female, do you think Williams would have ranted at her the same way? Do you think she would have accused her of sexism? Maybe there was some sexism involved but maybe it wasn''t coming from the umpire.

[Thirsty Lizard 3,155]

canarydan23 - I listened to a really interesting interview with a tennis umpire yesterday. He explained that code violations for things players say to the umpire are split into two categories. The first is ''audible obscenities'' and the second is ''impuning the honesty and integrity of the umpire''. While Serena Williams didn''t transgress the first one she very clearly transgressed the second by repeatedly calling the umpire a ''thief'' and also calling him a ''liar''. It''s worth noting that the umpire didn''t immediately sanction Serena Williams for calling him these things, but only did so when she had repeated them a number of times.

[hogesar 9,618]

Isn''t Carlos Ramos quite a strict Umpire anyway? 

Why did Serena bring sex into it? She started by claiming she couldn''t cheat because ''she has a daughter''. What relevance does that hold?

Also, the tennis match was a woman vs a woman. I''m not sure how being sexist was going to produce anything other than a female winner and another female runner up.

That''s ignoring the fact that Carlos Ramos simply followed the rules. Serena''s coach later admitted to trying to coach. Why, according to some posters, we''re not allowed to question this because we''re white males is hysterically embarrassing.

[Nuff Said 5,092]

Ian, I welcome your opinion, and that of everyone else, but in order to respect them my minimum criteria is that they are respectful, empathic if they are about someone else and reasonably informed, especially if they are speculative. I think a lot of the views on here fail the "reasonably informed" test, as canarydan has pointed out.

Williams''s behaviour was not ok, but it needs to be seen in context, particularly when the discussion is about something far wider (I.e. sexism). I don''t know a lot about tennis, but I have read several people who are far more knowledgable than me say women are treated differently to men in the sport and that this was an example of that sexism.

To say from a more privileged position that discrimination against others does not exist runs the risk of looking arrogant unless one has made an effort to understand what life is like for those who are being discriminated against. Hence the "middle-aged white men" (which includes me) phrase.

[canarydan23 4,060]

The debate is not whether the umpire was correct. He acted entirely by the letter of the law.

The issue is whether he would have done had this been Djokovic v Del Potro or another all male contest. As has been said, and no one can dispute, coaching happens all the time. There was at least two exchanges between Djokovic and his entourage in the final the very next day. Was there any violation called? Nope.

A few years ago Andy Roddick asked an umpire if he deaf, called him an idiot and said he must have dropped out of school when he was 8. Code violation? Nope.

As for Serena, she either didn''t realise her coach had said anything to her, so would have been incredulous at being punished for what in her eyes was essentially nothing, or she couldn''t believe that she was being punished for something that happens IN EVERY GAME.

And as for that cartoon, why has Osaka been given white skin and blonde hair? Yes Swindon, nothing to see there.