Progress....?

[Disco Dales Jockstrap 1,891]

I think the improvement yesterday can be explained by looking at the key weaknesses in the side at the start of this season and how yesterday those issues were overcome:

Kruls'' mistakes:

He probably cost us at least a couple of games early on in the season but yesterday had a blinder. Commanding in the box and made some top saves.

Individual defensive mistakes:

The back four looked very solid yesterday. Zimmerman had a couple of moments but we do seem to do better with him in the team. The right back position was clearly our biggest weakness with Marshall unsuited to what he was being asked to do and Pinto simply not up to the job. Luckily, we seem to have discovered a young man of immense quality to solve the problem. I cannot speak highly enough of the maturity and match awareness Max showed yesterday. I think he might well be even better than Lewis.

A lack of bite in midfield:

At times we have been powder-puff and lightweight in the middle, allowing teams to cut through us with ease. The addition of a physically imposing Stiepermann and the energy of Buendia, as well as the return to top form of Tetty (who imo has been unfairly singled out at times this season) resulting in us bettering Boro in that area. Clearly the order had also gone out to press quicker and higher up the pitch, as we never allowed Boro to settle at the back.

A lack of flow/connection between defence and attack:

Although we won the Preston game, I think that game demonstrated how at times we really struggle to build out from the back as Farke wants us to. Playing a 4-1-4-1 in that game, Tetty was too isolated in front of the back four and was unsuited to being the play maker. The blame for that has to be shared between Tetty, who had a poor game, Farke for putting him in that unsuited position and Leitner for not offering himself as an option more often. Yesterday, Leitner dropped deeper more often supporting Tetty as part of a 4-2-3-1, with Tetty then pushing forward to replace him, allowing us to have a player on the ball who can pick players with passes well but still giving us overloads in key positions of the midfield from which we could launch attacks.

The real test now is whether what we saw yesterday can be sustained. One positive game in isolation, although highly welcome, will be worth nothing if we regress in our following games; that will be the true measure of whether progress is now being made.

OTBC

[kick it off 1,948]

Sums it up pretty nicely I think DDJ. Good post.

[lake district canary 4,530]

Progress indeed and of course it is part of the development. Farke this season has the player options he needs for when injuries or lack of form strike and to his credit he has made the right changes almost every time.  The right back issue is a clear case in point. Marshall, as the new player, was given his chance, then Pinto fully fit was given his chance to show after Marshall didn''t excel, but Aarons forced himself into the reckoning with that cup game and Farke responded by giving him his chance.  

It is great when changes are made that improve things and although the Hanley change was forced by injury, all that has done is show we have strength in depth. I''m sure there will be setbacks as well as signs of progress, but yesterday proves we can beat the best in this division and tat surely gives us reasons to be optimistic!

[lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0]

Progress? That performance has been long over due, but we’re in more or less the same position as we were at this stage last year. With similarly sporadic results and performances.

So in the grand scheme of things the answer is probably no, we aren’t showing signs of progression.

[Badger 2,404]

[Y]Interesting post DDJ.

[Boris 56]

We was not that bad against Leeds too even lost 0-3 IMO.

Simply too many unforced errors on key positions cost us many games .

Yesterday pretty solid we must build on that ...

With confident keeper and more settled midfield plus Vrancic is option again...

Rooster is good this year more balanced we need focus and run without defeats to come confidence.

Farke is here to reduced budget and add academy players and this is never easy job so I think he is not that bad as many think.

Only Oly situation is mistake and not because he see bad attitude on this man but because we still pay silly wage and player seems hardly find new club .

[paul moy 235]

Definitely progress.   Pukki has been an excellent signing and with youngsters breaking through and the improving performances of  Krul, Stiepermann, Leitner etc,  depth of the squad, great team spirit and the confidence of winning, we could be about to hit some good form.

Good reasons to be optimistic, so fingers crossed.

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,017]

Good to see that Lincoln chap managed to find a negative in what was a good team performance, against a Boro side that were second and unbeaten........

[Drazen Muzinic 1,444]

[quote user="Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB"]Good to see that Lincoln chap managed to find a negative in what was a good team performance, against a Boro side that were second and unbeaten........[/quote]

It''s a skill he has.

He has twisted the OP by comparing our position to this time last season not the bag of spanners we have been in the opening games of this season.

[king canary 7,558]

Good performance yes. Progress? We don''t know yet. But fingers crossed.

[Capt. Pants 4,194]

3 difficult matches unbeaten, so yes progress has been made.

But yesterday must be the start of things to come. We need to keep the intensity going the next game, and the game after that....

No reason why this squad cannot mount a promotion challenge, it needs Farke to realise what''s needed to win football matches in this league. Yesterday he did that, let''s hope it continues.

[BroadstairsR 2,135]

There''s many a Yorkshire pudding been abandoned in favour of the Mediterranean diet apparently.

Our lurch towards the German diet might have taken time but we have nothing left but hope it''s self.

Perhaps yesterday heralded a more hopeful future.

I''m 50/50 (between Yorkshires and olive oil that is) but without hope and aspirations we will become an Ipswich Town.

To misquote Bob Hope: "I don''t know what people have against Daniel Farke, he''s done nothing."

The next two games will be decisive in evaluating whether we have progressed and whether our sense of entitlement has been appeased.

[Jim Smith 2,314]

Goals and errors change games and in both the WBA and Leeds games errors changed the games massively. In both we were playing pretty well but we were then majorly rocked from conceding goals from what were really the oppositions first efforts on our goal (first two in the case of WBA).

Yesterday that didn’t happen, the passing was better and we benefitted. Leitner growing into his role is helping as well.

Most pleasing for me was we actually had and stuck to a style of play. I think we’ve resorted to lumping long balls up to Rhodes too much of late and abandoned our principles with the result being you couldn’t really see how we were trying to play. We need to stick to it now and we the fans perhaps need to be a bit more patient with the passing around at the back.

[westcoastcanary 173]

[Y] DDJ

Yes, the individual errors that cost us earlier in the season needed cutting out, but the key to doing so is not allowing situations to develop in which the probability of such errors is massively increased. According to DF we stuck to the game plan and "brought our football onto the pitch", i.e. we played as he wants us to play, in the style, and with the tactical nous and intensity at which he aims. I don''t think DF''s coaching has changed, we have had such spells in previous matches for example, but yesterday we maintained it more or less throughout. The interesting question is "How come?".

I think the answer lies in a form of progress which nobody has yet commented on, namely, being able to field an entire team to whom what''s being asked for is not all that alien and/or in whom very different instincts and playing patterns are not already ingrained. 

[hogesar 9,606]

[quote user="Jim Smith"]Goals and errors change games and in both the WBA and Leeds games errors changed the games massively. In both we were playing pretty well but we were then majorly rocked from conceding goals from what were really the oppositions first efforts on our goal (first two in the case of WBA).

Yesterday that didn’t happen, the passing was better and we benefitted. Leitner growing into his role is helping as well.

Most pleasing for me was we actually had and stuck to a style of play. I think we’ve resorted to lumping long balls up to Rhodes too much of late and abandoned our principles with the result being you couldn’t really see how we were trying to play. We need to stick to it now and we the fans perhaps need to be a bit more patient with the passing around at the back.[/quote]

Great post Jim. I particularly agree with the bit in bold. Our fans haven''t seen it work in a complete performance until now really (although the cup games against Arsenal and Chelsea last season were decent examples) so I really hope fans give it a chance to work. It''s important that as the players grow in confidence and ability at playing that style that us as fans don''t aid in derailing that.

[Jim Smith 2,314]

I do think it helped though that Boro were happy to sit off us for much of the game. The challenge is to do it without errors when teams press

[hogesar 9,606]

[quote user="Jim Smith"]I do think it helped though that Boro were happy to sit off us for much of the game. The challenge is to do it without errors when teams press[/quote]

To be fair, last season we really struggled to create when teams sat off at Carrow Road. So that''s a marked improvement this season.

[norfolkngood 1,086]

Progress yes for sure yesterday

can we keep it up time will tell

if we can then Farke is proving he is the man for the job

i will see where we are after this run of games interesting to see which way it goes for Farke

[sgncfc 1,221]

Farke and his system is here to stay, as is the organisation of the club under Webber, and rightly so because it is quite clear that we are making progress to anyone who actually watches the games, as opposed to listening to them or reading about them.

We have a squad this season full of bright and talented players, all of whom are desperate for a chance. Our bench yesterday was very strong and gave the coach tremendous flexibility.

I genuinely think we are about to take off and I think part of the reason is that no one rates us. Boro were totally surprised yesterday - they thought they would just turn up and do a Leeds on us, but that Leeds game was so badly reported as a "thrashing" when it wasn''t, that anyone who wasn''t actually there would assume we were completely outclassed - we weren''t. Wolves outclassed us last season but Leeds are nowhere near as good as them.

This league is as wide open as ever.

[westcoastcanary 173]

[quote user="sgncfc"]Farke and his system is here to stay, as is the organisation of the club under Webber, and rightly so because it is quite clear that we are making progress to anyone who actually watches the games, as opposed to listening to them or reading about them.

We have a squad this season full of bright and talented players, all of whom are desperate for a chance. Our bench yesterday was very strong and gave the coach tremendous flexibility.

I genuinely think we are about to take off and I think part of the reason is that no one rates us. Boro were totally surprised yesterday - they thought they would just turn up and do a Leeds on us, but that Leeds game was so badly reported as a "thrashing" when it wasn''t, that anyone who wasn''t actually there would assume we were completely outclassed - we weren''t. Wolves outclassed us last season but Leeds are nowhere near as good as them.

This league is as wide open as ever.[/quote] Only one point of disagreement (highlighted). You underestimate the capacity of some people to watch every game with their eyes wide shut and then complain they see no progress. [:D]

[lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0]

[quote user="sgncfc"]Farke and his system is here to stay, as is the organisation of the club under Webber, and rightly so because it is quite clear that we are making progress to anyone who actually watches the games, as opposed to listening to them or reading about them.

We have a squad this season full of bright and talented players, all of whom are desperate for a chance. Our bench yesterday was very strong and gave the coach tremendous flexibility.

I genuinely think we are about to take off and I think part of the reason is that no one rates us. Boro were totally surprised yesterday - they thought they would just turn up and do a Leeds on us, but that Leeds game was so badly reported as a "thrashing" when it wasn''t, that anyone who wasn''t actually there would assume we were completely outclassed - we weren''t. Wolves outclassed us last season but Leeds are nowhere near as good as them.

This league is as wide open as ever.[/quote]

Well Paddy Davit clearly disagrees, because that''s exactly what he likened the Leeds game too.

You can''t disregard peoples opinion that little to no progress has been made. People will have different parameters for progress. And even the most staunch Farke fan will struggle to demonstrate tangible evidence for improvement.

Its all nice and rosey to say "bright, talented players" and "bench full of tremendous flexibility" but what is it actually translating to? A team in more or less exactly the same position as last year!

We still have similar flaws too, most notably striking the correct balance between attack and defence. There is potential there for improvement, but then again there was last year and we failed to realise it by selling Pritchard and waving the white flag in January.

[lake district canary 4,530]

[quote user="lincoln canary Golden Coppel"]People will have different parameters for progress. And even the most staunch Farke fan will struggle to demonstrate tangible evidence for improvement.[/quote]

Here is your evidence m''lud......1-0 versus the top side in the division with all players selected playing well. Definite improvement wouldn''t you say?

 

[lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0]

[quote user="lake district canary"]

[quote user="lincoln canary Golden Coppel"]People will have different parameters for progress. And even the most staunch Farke fan will struggle to demonstrate tangible evidence for improvement.[/quote]

Here is your evidence m''lud......1-0 versus the top side in the division with all players selected playing well. Definite improvement wouldn''t you say?

 

[/quote]

Didn''t we beat Boro 1-0 at home last season? Do we just forget all the stuff in-between then?

[lake district canary 4,530]

[quote user="lincoln canary Golden Coppel"][quote user="lake district canary"]

[quote user="lincoln canary Golden Coppel"]People will have different parameters for progress. And even the most staunch Farke fan will struggle to demonstrate tangible evidence for improvement.[/quote]

Here is your evidence m''lud......1-0 versus the top side in the division with all players selected playing well. Definite improvement wouldn''t you say?

[/quote]

Didn''t we beat Boro 1-0 at home last season? Do we just forget all the stuff in-between then?[/quote]

I am just going on this season - the squad has a completely different dynamic compared to last season with a whole new line up of attacking players.  And this season has given us plenty of glimpses of what the squad is capable of, the issues at the back have been addressed and Saturday represented what we all want to see, a good team giving it out to and beating the form team of the division.

[lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="lincoln canary Golden Coppel"][quote user="lake district canary"]

[quote user="lincoln canary Golden Coppel"]People will have different parameters for progress. And even the most staunch Farke fan will struggle to demonstrate tangible evidence for improvement.[/quote]

Here is your evidence m''lud......1-0 versus the top side in the division with all players selected playing well. Definite improvement wouldn''t you say?

[/quote]

Didn''t we beat Boro 1-0 at home last season? Do we just forget all the stuff in-between then?[/quote]

I am just going on this season - the squad has a completely different dynamic compared to last season with a whole new line up of attacking players.  And this season has given us plenty of glimpses of what the squad is capable of, the issues at the back have been addressed and Saturday represented what we all want to see, a good team giving it out to and beating the form team of the division.

[/quote]

As I said, peoples parameters for progress are different. Some bordering on the ludicrous.

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,017]

Lincoln - I would say comparing how we did against a team last season is equally ludicrous, different playing personnel, different stage of the season (for our corresponding home fixture), different weather conditions, different form going into the game etc. Personally I am not going overboard regarding progress, and I prefer to judge things over a longer term than seven games, but I doubt there were many fans that honestly thought we would beat Boro based on both teams current form, and I suspect most would have been happy with a point (And I understand that it takes much more than a Norwich win to make you happy)......