Ben Marshall

[lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0]

Interesting one. Awesome last year at Millwall, previously very good at this level with Blackburn. Yet his start here shares similarities with Marley Watkins.

Marshall isn’t a right back. But is a talented attacking wide player.

IMO he could rotate with Hernandez, or Stiepermann with Buendia going central. I really hope Farke gives him a fair opportunity and he doesn’t become another Marley, who incidentally assisted the winning goal for Brizzle yesterday.

[Well b back 3,603]

Took all weekend for you to work out what you could slate Farke for this weekend.

Well done

[hogesar 10,762]

I think he will get a chance out wide, Buendia is young and will blow hot and cold. He hasnt exactly impressed so far so he will need to perform in any chances he gets.

[Bill 1,788]

"another Marley, who incidentally assisted the winning goal for Brizzle yesterday.

"

so heading the ball into the net is assisting a goal ?

and given that there was only the one goal scored it hardly qualifies as the winning goal - the goal would be more accurate

[lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0]

We’ll b back,

I suppose there is some critism in there. I’m far from sold on Farkes tactics, team selections and man management skills. However he clearly got it right yesterday, and does finally appear to be settling on a preferred nucleus of a first team.

However, Ben Marshall was probably our top signing this summer and I hope we get see him play. He’s got bags of talent and could be a big player for us.

I’m sure like many, I don’t want to see another Marley Watkins situation materialise. And as good as Stiepermann was yesterday and Hernandez has been, they’re both not consistently good enough to keep Marshall out from getting fair crack in his preferred postion.

[lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0]

[quote user="Ben"]

"another Marley, who incidentally assisted the winning goal for Brizzle yesterday.

"

so heading the ball into the net is assisting a goal ?

and given that there was only the one goal scored it hardly qualifies as the winning goal - the goal would be more accurate

[/quote]

How is ‘the goal’ in a game that finishes 1-0, anything but the winning goal?

What a stupid statement.

[danielsroundabout 9]

If it was the only goal of the game it could be nothing but the winning goal. Hardly a consolation goal was it?

[Fiery Zac 1,066]

From what I’ve seen of him, he’s in no danger of being the next Marley Watkins and it’ll be a matter of time before he shows what he’s capable of.

Hernandez has been quiet in the last couple of games and not every game will suit Buendia so he’ll get his chances, just needs to be in the correct, more attacking position rather than as another makeshift RB (though Max has already nailed that place down anyway)

[Bill 1,788]

by using the adjective ''winning'' suggests there was other goal(s)

and was this ''assisted'' thing some special form of help ?

ps perhaps you would do better to check stuff first, rather than get ar sey with me afterwards

[hogesar 10,762]

Of course no-one wants to see him become he next ''Marley Watkins'' but that is primarily up to him. If he can''t deliver then he will readily be replaced by a younger alternative where possible. If he delivers more than our younger group of players then he''ll get a chance.

As for mentioning Watkins in terms of his performance for Bristol it''s kind of irrelevant as he was shocking here. Thankfully we have a much more talented player in Pukki, who I guess you could class as his replacement. Or maybe Buendia, who again looks a much more talented footballer.

[Bill 1,788]

I think it is always going to be a case of ''horses for course''s'' as far as team selection is concerned.

Rhodes was left out because the Boro back four were seen as to strong in the air. Tettey positioned himself outside the box to pick up sideways passes for a shot.

I would expect a different lineup to face a team of hoofers such as the binners than against a fast attacking team who break quickly.

Marshall''s time will come, just as will Godfrey''s.

[Surfer 1,547]

"Ben Marshall was probably our top signing this summer and I hope we get see him play. He’s got bags of talent and could be a big player for us"

He was? A bigger signing than Rhodes or Buendia or Leitner or Puuki or McLean or Krul? If so, I too look forward to him playing more than a bit part in our season.

[westcoastcanary 173]

[quote user="Well b back"]Took all weekend for you to work out what you could slate Farke for this weekend.

Well done[/quote]This ^

When Liverpool were the dominant force in English football, they often signed top class players who would then "disappear" into the reserves, to be moulded in playing "the Liverpool way". They were introduced into the first team only when proven ready, which not infrequently meant their second season. Those who couldn''t adapt would find themselves moved on. This is what successful clubs do (which is why Real Madrid''s departing from the model in such spectacular fashion with their soon abandoned "Galactico" experiment caused such a hubbub). Every player we bring in will have been fully briefed about our style of play and how they are expected to fit in. It''s for them to deliver. Like Watkins, the onus is on Marshall, not Farke.

[lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0]

But that’s the point. Watkins is delivering at Bristol City, and did so at Barnsley.

Why did it not happen here?

Ben Marshall delivered at Millwall, and did so at wolves and Blackburn. He needs to be given a chance to deliver, which so far he hasn’t.

You can’t rule out Farke being part of the issue at this stage.

[hogesar 10,762]

*facepalm*

[Fuzzar 1,861]

Maybe it just takes some players more time to adapt to what''s required of them.

This, or any other number of possible reasons, none of which means he will necessarily become this season''s Marley Watkins.

[Ray 111]

Westcoast, just as "they are expected to fit in" and "It''s for them to deliver", surely our ''recruitment'' team will have done their homework re the ability of the player to fit in and deliver. By that I mean does the player have the correct mindset for the task in hand, having the physical ability is one thing, the mental capacity or willingness to ''fit in and deliver, another.

I seem to remember Mr Wenger insisted on all young recruits being psychologically assessed and no matter what their physical ability, unless they fitted the psychological profile they were not signed.

[westcoastcanary 173]

Yes indeed Ray. Plenty of time for the assessment to be proved right.

[lake district canary 4,830]

One of the many reasons why a player may excel at one club but not at another is the dynamic of the club he is at.  A player may find himself lower in the pecking order at one club and thus feel under more pressure when on the pitch.  A player that has grafted and won the love of the fans and playing at his best at one club, might find it harder to recreate that scenario at another.  

In Marshall''s case the proof of the pudding will be how he adapts to the new situation, how well he keeps his positivity and self-belief to work hard to be at his best again.   Then, once on the pitch, maybe in a cup game, or on as a sub, to make it count.  He is a good player, obviously, but he has to learn, adapt and then when he gets another chance be ready to take it.   As others have said, if he isn''t up to that and can''t recreate his best form, he won''t stay long.

[Dr Greenthumb 792]

[quote user="Ben"]

"another Marley, who incidentally assisted the winning goal for Brizzle yesterday.

"

so heading the ball into the net is assisting a goal ?

and given that there was only the one goal scored it hardly qualifies as the winning goal - the goal would be more accurate

[/quote]

Hard to take you serious when you have just come out with this chestnut. It was the winning goal!

[lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0]

[quote user="lake district canary"]

One of the many reasons why a player may excel at one club but not at another is the dynamic of the club he is at.  A player may find himself lower in the pecking order at one club and thus feel under more pressure when on the pitch.  A player that has grafted and won the love of the fans and playing at his best at one club, might find it harder to recreate that scenario at another.  

In Marshall''s case the proof of the pudding will be how he adapts to the new situation, how well he keeps his positivity and self-belief to work hard to be at his best again.   Then, once on the pitch, maybe in a cup game, or on as a sub, to make it count.  He is a good player, obviously, but he has to learn, adapt and then when he gets another chance be ready to take it.   As others have said, if he isn''t up to that and can''t recreate his best form, he won''t stay long.

[/quote]

Putting Saturdays performance aside, Steipermann has been pretty poor and hasn''t demonstrated being up to it as you put it. However he''s not been shipped out, and instead been given more than his fair amount of chances.

[lake district canary 4,830]

[quote user="lincoln canary Golden Coppel"][quote user="lake district canary"]

One of the many reasons why a player may excel at one club but not at another is the dynamic of the club he is at.  A player may find himself lower in the pecking order at one club and thus feel under more pressure when on the pitch.  A player that has grafted and won the love of the fans and playing at his best at one club, might find it harder to recreate that scenario at another.  

In Marshall''s case the proof of the pudding will be how he adapts to the new situation, how well he keeps his positivity and self-belief to work hard to be at his best again.   Then, once on the pitch, maybe in a cup game, or on as a sub, to make it count.  He is a good player, obviously, but he has to learn, adapt and then when he gets another chance be ready to take it.   As others have said, if he isn''t up to that and can''t recreate his best form, he won''t stay long.

[/quote]

Putting Saturdays performance aside, Steipermann has been pretty poor and hasn''t demonstrated being up to it as you put it. However he''s not been shipped out, and instead been given more than his fair amount of chances.[/quote]

I beg to differ, Stiepermann has always had something about him, put in some very good performances at left back last season and scored on one of the few occasions he was played further forward (think it was against Cardiff).  That he is now beginning to show his best in his best position, he has proved my point, you arrive at a club, things may not work straight away but you adapt, work hard and then take your chance when it comes.  That is what Marshall has to do. 

[lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="lincoln canary Golden Coppel"][quote user="lake district canary"]

One of the many reasons why a player may excel at one club but not at another is the dynamic of the club he is at.  A player may find himself lower in the pecking order at one club and thus feel under more pressure when on the pitch.  A player that has grafted and won the love of the fans and playing at his best at one club, might find it harder to recreate that scenario at another.  

In Marshall''s case the proof of the pudding will be how he adapts to the new situation, how well he keeps his positivity and self-belief to work hard to be at his best again.   Then, once on the pitch, maybe in a cup game, or on as a sub, to make it count.  He is a good player, obviously, but he has to learn, adapt and then when he gets another chance be ready to take it.   As others have said, if he isn''t up to that and can''t recreate his best form, he won''t stay long.

[/quote]

Putting Saturdays performance aside, Steipermann has been pretty poor and hasn''t demonstrated being up to it as you put it. However he''s not been shipped out, and instead been given more than his fair amount of chances.[/quote]

I beg to differ, Stiepermann has always had something about him, put in some very good performances at left back last season and scored on one of the few occasions he was played further forward (think it was against Cardiff).  That he is now beginning to show his best in his best position, he has proved my point, you arrive at a club, things may not work straight away but you adapt, work hard and then take your chance when it comes.  That is what Marshall has to do. 

[/quote]

I''m sure most will disagree with you. Steipermann has been completely ineffective on a number of occasions. Yet had far more opportunities'' than Watkins, for example.

The difference is that the expectation on Watkins was huge in comparison. He needed a run of games, and never got it. So we''ll never know if he would have proved successful.

[lake district canary 4,830]

I''m sure most won''t disagree.  Stiepermann''s early season form last

season was good - albeit at left back and he got very few chances in his

favoured position of AM. 

[lake district canary 4,830]

And Watkins had plenty of chances to show something - and he didn''t.

[Bill 1,788]

[quote user="Dr Greenthumb"][quote user="Ben"]

"another Marley, who incidentally assisted the winning goal for Brizzle yesterday.

"

so heading the ball into the net is assisting a goal ?

and given that there was only the one goal scored it hardly qualifies as the winning goal - the goal would be more accurate

[/quote]

Hard to take you serious when you have just come out with this chestnut. It was the winning goal![/quote]

the winning goal

as opposed to what other type of goal given the score ?

[lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0]

[quote user="lake district canary"]And Watkins had plenty of chances to show something - and he didn''t.[/quote]

No he didn''t. You can''t use an odd start or substitute appearance as evidence for plenty of chances.

He was never given a decent run of games to settle. Some players need games to build form. Watkins falls into this category IMO.

Farke didn''t rate Watkins, and clearly didn''t have the relationship like he does with Steipermann. On balance, I believe most managers would pick Watkins over Steipemann for championship football, and that''s the concern for me.

[Hairy Canary 753]

It''s just semantics. In the same way I could call it the "opening" goal but you could then say as there wasn''t another during the game it would just be a goal.

Anyone less pedantic and egotistical wouldn''t have bothered to make an issue of it. It was of course the winning goal!

[lake district canary 4,830]

[quote user="lincoln canary Golden Coppel"][quote user="lake district canary"]And Watkins had plenty of chances to show something - and he didn''t.

[/quote]

No he didn''t. You can''t use an odd start or substitute appearance as evidence for plenty of chances.

He was never given a decent run of games to settle. Some players need games to build form. Watkins falls into this category IMO.

Farke didn''t rate Watkins, and clearly didn''t have the relationship like he does with Steipermann. On balance, I believe most managers would pick Watkins over Steipemann for championship football, and that''s the concern for me.[/quote]

Watkins failed at Norwich.  That was not down to anyone except himself, if Farke didn''t rate him it''s because Watkins didn''t show enough willingness or ability to adapt or to do what was required.  He was even criticised by the manager at one point for not working hard enough, so I don''t know why you''re banging on about Watkins - he did not do well enough on the pitch when he was on it and apparemtly didn''t excel off it either.

Stiepermann is a totally different player, has shown the character and ability to deserve his place in the team and if he carries on doing well - and there is no reason to suppose he won''t  - he could well be in the team as a regular.

Bearing in mind this thread is about Marshall, all I would say is that he has to prove his worth like Stiepermann has and Watkins didn''t.

[capricorn1 18]

Looks like LDC has pretty much made the point I was going to make but maybe the reason Steipermann got more chances than Watkins was down to attitude?

We only see what happens on match days but perhaps it''s as simple as Steipermann has his head down in training, worked hard and was willing and happy to be deployed wherever his coach wanted and Watkins didn''t? It would certainly explain why we saw him in so many positions. Farke certainly spoke highly of Watkins early last season so something must''ve happened to turn that round.

Fact is, some signings simply don''t work out at a club, at least under this regime we''re seeing players who don''t work out moved on. We got Watkins on a free and sold him, that''s a great bit of business.

With regards Marshall, maybe he''s not putting in the work in training and that''s why he''s not being selected? Or maybe he''s doing really well in training but unfortunately others are out performing him? There''s not always a massive conspiracy behind someone not playing!