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gissing canary

Webber - why I like Director of Football, but not sure on him

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My view of a director of football is that their role is to:

- Manage players contracts.

- Scout and sign interesting players

- Put together a balanced squad for the manager (positionally)

- Stop a manager ballooning squad size, acting as a counter point between a manager and board. We all remember alex Neil giving turner and Whittaker extra years for no reason.

- Put together a balanced squad in terms of age group, with future resale value.

- Move on players for profit.

For me Webber is underperforming in many of these aspects:

- pinto was surely worth money, but contract is running down. Same with Klose. We spent 11m on them, ok they aren’t worth that, but both seem to be leaving on frees. Let alone Olivera

- Done well in places, but Germany / Farke knowledge heavy. Zimmermann our best signing last year?

- Absolutely failing. 10 cms. 4 right backs and 1 left back of ability. Bizarre. Can’t understand. Lots good on their day, but all together...

- Mixed. Too many players makes tough to get value for some of them. Could we move on any of the midfielders for more than we spent?

- I think over rated. Murphy and Madison were easy sales. Good young British talent. What he has failed to do is move on anyone else for good value? Franke, Naismith, wildschut, etc. Other than Jerome and waktins I haven’t seen enough smart sales from us.

Overall I believe in director of football concept. Just he doesn’t do what I think one should. Check real Madrid’s squad, pretty much nailed on 2 players for every position in 433. Manager picks and coaches the team.

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Awful lot of rubbish in one post.

1- Pinto is only worth money if someone wants to pay it for him- the fact the most concrete rumour about him was a loan to West Brom suggests teams don''t see the value in him. I suspect with Klose we''ve decided he''s worth more to us here than any nominal fee we might get for him.

2- I love the idea that any player signed from Germany must be because of Farke. He''s done well in getting a wide range of players for very little money.

3- We don''t have 4 right backs- Marshall is a midfielder and Aarons has been the surprise break through. One is on loan, the other has his contract up in the summer so it will be easily shrunk back down also. I kind of agree we''re a bit midfield heavy though.

4- Neil has to give Turner and extra year because of a clause in his contract. We could easily move on several of our midfielders for more than we spent also- Vrancic, Leitner, Hernandez, Godfrey all spring to mind. Maybe not huge fees but probably an increase on what we paid.

5- Easy sales? Getting over £10m for Murphy doesn''t seem easy to me. Also he''s not a magician, he can''t make teams interested in players like Naismith who are past their best and on bloated contracts.

You''ve also missed a whole bunch of what he is here to do- overhaul the scouting, change the medical department, help plan routes from the academy to the first team etc etc.

All in all I think he''s doing a pretty fine job. A total overhaul of the squad, bringing down wages, making large profits all without leaving us with a squad of no hopers.

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[quote user="Nuff Said"]I completely agree with your sentiment, but Big Vince? Harsh.[/quote]

 

I agree, the OP is nonsense but at least it''s nonsense that makes you think a bit, unlike a BV post which normally offers nothing that he hasn''t posted many times before.


How many times does it have to be said about Turner, he had an option to extend his contract so the club had no choice about it ?  At the time his contract was signed, he was playing well in the Prem so it''s hard to complain about the contract terms agreed.

 

Also to criticise the club for not moving on Naismith sooner is just bizarre, the guy was obviously on near-Prem level wages when he couldn''t even get into our first team in the Championship, so if anyone could find a team to match those wages (never mind actually getting a transfer fee on top) that would have been some feat of salesmanship.

 

Ditto with Klose - I''m sure he''s on good wages but at least he''s doing a job for us in the Champs, I imagine we''d have to take a loss to get him to move, so better keeping him and at least getting a return for the money.

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I don''t agree with the OP overall, but I think that some of the criticism here is a bit harsh. As ICF says it does make you think a bit and he does have some fair points - e.g re full backs and centre midfield. I don''t agree with the conclusion but s/he has made some considered points and to compare him/ her with some of the posters on here is inappropriate.It is a thoughtful post and worthy of a more balanced reply. (Sorry I sound even more like a pompous a*s than usual, but I''m too busy to edit [:$])

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[quote user="Thirsty Lizard"]Why aren''t we Real Madrid????[/quote]
Or even the Provisional Madrid ?

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[quote user=" Badger"]I don''t agree with the OP overall, but I think that some of the criticism here is a bit harsh. As ICF says it does make you think a bit and he does have some fair points - e.g re full backs and centre midfield. I don''t agree with the conclusion but s/he has made some considered points and to compare him/ her with some of the posters on here is inappropriate.It is a thoughtful post and worthy of a more balanced reply. (Sorry I sound even more like a pompous a*s than usual, but I''m too busy to edit [:$])
[/quote]
I think the problem is though, when you''re bringing players through the academy and in from abroad, it''s difficult to know how quickly they''ll settle, and how quickly they''ll break through into the first team (if at all).
If the club had known how rapidly Max Aarons was going to develop, they wouldn''t have pursued Ebuhi or Avest, and arguably wouldn''t have brought Passlack in.
Emi Buendia turned up without being able to speak English, he''s 21, yet he''s looking hard to displace out of the first team. Todd Cantwell''s in a similar position, and Marco Stiepermann''s gone from stop gap to a key player.
Yes, we''ve got a big squad, but that''s partly because some of the fringe players were given a chance at Cardiff and took it with both hands. Before the season started I thought we were a winger short, with only Hernandez and Marshall on the books, but now Marshall can''t get a look in.

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Don''t like him due to his rubbish spouted about Howson and his comments post Bolton last year but prove is in the results so...... Meanwhile 1400 plus at Wycombe.... Respect City fans

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[quote user="Mike "]Don''t like him due to his rubbish spouted about Howson[/quote]
Nah, he wouldn''t have said that without several witnesses to back him up. In a libel situation you have to prove anything you say is factual. It was carefully timed after his transfer went through, but Webber knew exactly what he was doing.

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I think Webber is doing a decent job for the most part. He''s very busy and very decisive and seems to have got a lot more right than wrong.

I see the OP''s post as being criticism for criticism''s sake and with an almost microscopic search for faults.

With respect to fellow posters, myself included, resentfulness of the successful arriviste is very Norfolk.

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[quote user="Icecream Snow"]
[quote user="Mike "]Don''t like him due to his rubbish spouted about Howson[/quote]
Nah, he wouldn''t have said that without several witnesses to back him up. In a libel situation you have to prove anything you say is factual. It was carefully timed after his transfer went through, but Webber knew exactly what he was doing.
[/quote]

It was petty and unprofessional. Nothing I have heard or indeed seen from Howson on is return to Carrow Rd warranted, a childish dig that achieving nothing more than sullying the players reputation.. I also know of thinks he has done that show he is very petty at times... if he does his job fine but I will lose no sleep when the Leeds fan leaves

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But personal opinions matter not one jot.. he said he should be judged after 3/4 transfer windows. Lets see at the end of the year whether he should stay or go.

At the moment its looking ok for him with 4 wins on the bounce

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[quote user="Mike "][quote user="Icecream Snow"]
[quote user="Mike "]Don''t like him due to his rubbish spouted about Howson[/quote]
Nah, he wouldn''t have said that without several witnesses to back him up. In a libel situation you have to prove anything you say is factual. It was carefully timed after his transfer went through, but Webber knew exactly what he was doing.
[/quote]

It was petty and unprofessional. Nothing I have heard or indeed seen from Howson on is return to Carrow Rd warranted, a childish dig that achieving nothing more than sullying the players reputation.. I also know of thinks he has done that show he is very petty at times... if he does his job fine but I will lose no sleep when the Leeds fan leaves[/quote]
Seems a bit over sensitive to me.

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[quote user="Icecream Snow"]
[quote user="Mike "]Don''t like him due to his rubbish spouted about Howson[/quote]
Nah, he wouldn''t have said that without several witnesses to back him up. In a libel situation you have to prove anything you say is factual. It was carefully timed after his transfer went through, but Webber knew exactly what he was doing.
[/quote]
I have no idea about this specific incident, and whether Webber actually thought of the law of libel before he spoke, but in sport generally and certainly in football people in the game frequently come out with defamatory remarks that in other jobs or professions would prompt a court case.
Comments about referees being bent, for example. And I can offhand think of a couple of  examples involving people connected, now or in the past, with Norwich City that would probably have resulted in a suit if it had happened outside football. There is a kind of blindness or assumption that the laws don''t apply.

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I don''t think he covered himself in glory with the Howson stuff- it just looked like the club trying to prevent fans getting upset at selling a key player to a divisional rival by claiming ''we had no choice.''

However it really isn''t that big of a deal and I''d much rather have someone like Webber who is open and blunt about stuff than some secretive and opaque set up.

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[quote user="hogesar"][quote user="Mike "][quote user="Icecream Snow"]
[quote user="Mike "]Don''t like him due to his rubbish spouted about Howson[/quote]
Nah, he wouldn''t have said that without several witnesses to back him up. In a libel situation you have to prove anything you say is factual. It was carefully timed after his transfer went through, but Webber knew exactly what he was doing.
[/quote]

I agree Webber was...

It was petty and unprofessional. Nothing I have heard or indeed seen from Howson on is return to Carrow Rd warranted, a childish dig that achieving nothing more than sullying the players reputation.. I also know of thinks he has done that show he is very petty at times... if he does his job fine but I will lose no sleep when the Leeds fan leaves[/quote]
Seems a bit over sensitive to me.
[/quote]

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I think Webber’s signings have been a mixed bag at best. Unsurprisingly they do seem to be getting better the longer he is in his role, though.

I think his squad planning has been good, I suspect Norwich always planned to sell Murphy this summer and bringing in Hernandez meant his replacement got 6 months to acclimatise before having to play every week.

Although Maddison is a huge talent, the fee Webber got for him shouldn’t be sniffed at - a record for a player who has never been in the Premier League. £10m for Murphy is also a great price for someone who has been so inconsistent over his career. (The £12m for Jacob is also an excellent deal).

People will credit Farke with Lewis and Aarons getting into the first team, quite rightly, but Webber will also have had a hand in this as it is his job to build the first team squad.

Directors of football should never be judged on short term goals or a club’s run of form. From the outside it is hard to judge what is due to him, Farke, scouts, or other coaches (or plain dumb luck).

I’ve heard that Webber is someone the FA have on a long list to replace Dan Ashworth - such is his standing in the football community. I hope Webber is around a while yet, but if he does ultimately go I dread the idea that Norwich will do away with the Sporting Director position - I feel that is vitally important in all football clubs now and those without it will start to get left behind.

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Which came first - Webber or the position of Sporting Director? The latter surely, in which case it will live on after him. The only way I could see it disappearing would be if we we had a shot at appointing a top-tier old-style manager who wanted complete control. But as time as on, there are fewer and fewer of those around, as our structure is becoming more and more common.

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@Bethnal

Not sure why you''d think they would get rid of it if Webber leaves, especially if he does well enough that he gets poached by England or a bigger club.

The model is the right one and I think the owners see that.

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I don''t blame Webber for his comments about Howson. It was being rumoured long before Webber and Farke were in place that Howson wanted out. When he was sold the club were getting loads of abuse, how dare they sell fans-fav Johnny Howson!

Howson has never said it wasn''t true he didn''t want to go or that he wasn''t being difficult in training. Maybe he didn''t want to be disruptive and was being advised by his agent to be awkward to force a move through? I really don''t know, but I am satisfied that Webber wasn''t completely talking rubbish!

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[quote user="king canary"]@Bethnal

Not sure why you''d think they would get rid of it if Webber leaves, especially if he does well enough that he gets poached by England or a bigger club.

The model is the right one and I think the owners see that.[/quote]
Not sure Bethnal was saying he thought they would dump the model if Webber left. Only that it would be a bad idea. I am as sure as I can be that the idea of a sporting director came first, rather than Webber specifically being an argument for having such a position. So I would be very surprised if the model was dropped if Webber, or a successor, left.

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Sporting director, chief executive, manager, head coach - what difference does it make? The underlying problem remains the same. The Norwich City default position is to give away lots of goals. And Delia just does nothing about it. She just sits there in the stand and lets the other team kick the ball in her goal. I''ve seen her. I''ve seen her let them do it. You would think that after 22 years she and Wynnie would know everything there is to know about football - to the extent that they ought to be able to get down to Colney in their tracksuits and sort out whatever needs sorting.

After all, Geoffrey Watling at one time used to cut the grass during his tenure and he got 0 relegations out of it.

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[quote user="capricorn1"]I don''t blame Webber for his comments about Howson. It was being rumoured long before Webber and Farke were in place that Howson wanted out. When he was sold the club were getting loads of abuse, how dare they sell fans-fav Johnny Howson!

Howson has never said it wasn''t true he didn''t want to go or that he wasn''t being difficult in training. Maybe he didn''t want to be disruptive and was being advised by his agent to be awkward to force a move through? I really don''t know, but I am satisfied that Webber wasn''t completely talking rubbish![/quote]

I''d rather our Director of football spent his time on our squad than players no longer at the club... I hope he succeeds as it will mean we have a decent side.. but I do not like or trust the bloke ... hey ho..don''t lose sleep over it

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