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Web Team - Celia Sutton

Match commentary

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as expected, norwich were going to complain!

surely bbc radio norfolk should be able to broadcast on theweb, after all it is their stream.

Looks like its radio or nothing for you lot now!

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hmmmmm....wondered how long it''d take them to realise.  I just hope they don''t change the link address or I''m stuffed (though listening to games like last night wouldn''t be something I would miss).  I think it is completely unfair on people like me who live away from Norfolk that purely by virtue of this fact I am expected to pay to listen to the games, when those living locally do not.  I live over 150 miles away from Norwich and am a season ticket holder, so feel I already spend plenty going to games as it is, without having to pay more just to listen in on those occasions when I can''t spare 6+ hours of my life travelling to and from games.

 

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I totally agree. Radio should be free to all. I also live a long way off, the club sahould realise that a move top ban access will not generate more money- it will distance fans. Then they will drift away.  

The radio link makes a fanbase- who then get involved.

And having tried canaries world, I am afraid it is bugridden, amateur looking with poor quality footage. Not worth the money.

 

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Yep - have friends who subscribed to other ...world''s, and they all seem to think it is poor and only worth the money as they are long-range supporters. 

I couldn''t believe it when I first realised that Radio Narfolk was blocked for commentaries, and can''t believe that fleecing long-range supporters is a good idea.  I live in Surrey and there there are limitless options of other things to do with my time and money!!!

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[quote]I totally agree. Radio should be free to all. I also live a long way off, the club sahould realise that a move top ban access will not generate more money- it will distance fans. Then they will drift ...[/quote]

Agreed. Im using canaries world and think it was a bit of a waste of money. I think its unbelievable that they wont even give out free radio. Im happy to pay a bit of money for the highlights, but not allowing Radio Norfolk free of charge for people miles away is shocking.

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I agree totally - The whole point of the radio commentary is that it allows fans worldwide to listen to the match. OK it may be part of the agreement with the club that Radio Norfolk pay a reduced fee in exchange for them to have exclusive access to th commentary to broadcast it worldwide but there are many supporters of the club in far off lands who only want this aspect of the canaries site and with the minimum "world" subscription at £25 or for anyone in the States USD 45 or Australia AUD 60 this is a rip off...Free the Radio I say!

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This is a pathetic decision by our club, typical of football these days, for the club to take advantage of and cash in on supporters who do not live locally. It''s disgraceful.

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are the club serious?  Why shouldn''t fans who live out of Radio Norfolk''s range have access via the internet or DAB to listen to the games.  I am becoming increasingly annoyed with the holier than thou approach by the club over issues like Canaries World.  As i live in Norwich I thankfully don''t have to subscribe to it, but every week it seems (on this message board and others) there are numerous threads saying CWorld doesn''t deliver - and but for the Pink Un and other fan sites, the exiles wouldn''t have a clue what is going on

So, PR gurus at FCR ........... have you at last worked out how crap our season is so far and decided we haven''t the balls to listen?  Ummm

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they obviously dont want us to listen........ so lets not

forget about the club, lets go watch some norfolk cricket on a saturday afternoon instead!

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Shocking decision, but not too surprising.

I''ve got a link that shows live football matches from continental channels if anyone wants to PM for it. Watched about 50% of our games last season. Obviously not going to get anywhere near that, but it will show the Plymouth game for those who havent got sky, and theres a good chance the ipswich game will be on there

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I suspected as much given the selfish bleat of some chap on here a few days ago.

Unsuprisingly the club will expect the same far flung exiles to tip up at plymouth and also expect them to chip in with money for shares when the begging bowl comes round.

These are the same put upon supporters who cheered them on through thick and thin when they were grateful enough for every daft bugger who wandered through the turnstiles at Carrow Road in the hard times. The vast majority have paid into the club more as a proportion of their weekly income than ever Delia would have.

Not for them the pleasures of the boardroom. A couple of brown and milds sat on the grassy bank behind the Barclay or a long queue for a dodgy cuppa in the south stand if they were lucky.

This is mean spirited petulance on the part of the club.

If ever Delia wanted an answer to the sullen indifference shown by some fans when she tottered out onto the pitch to shout "letsbeavenyou" then this is it.

What next, parking meters for the disabled fans ?

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What a poor piece of public relations on the part of a club who says it wants to broaden it''s reach. I subscribed to the official site but dropped it, not because I was too cheap to pay the money and would chase anything that''s free, but because the official site had all kinds of problems preventing connection. When it became clear this was not a rare occurrence I did what any sensible person would do and dropped a substandard product. When I was a child beginning to play football in the early 1950''s, and before I could afford to go to the games, I used to love sitting down by the radio and listening to the game on a Saturday afternoon. That is how a professional sports club broadens it''s reach, by reaching out and realising if they are not too cheap with the pennies the pounds will take care of themselves. 

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thanks for that Robbo, and also MadDan who obviously comes from the same school of thought as me. Yes, Munby and Co, i remember you saying a few years ago if we could get 16,000 through the gates everything would be okay, yes, pleading for us to give you money and now this.  How low can you sink?

Now when you are turning people away (and there are plenty of people i know who can''t get tickets for home games), you do this to those who live away from Norfolk.  So much for loyalty, it works both ways you know!  Having always been a touch cynical of the suited side of FCR, I am not altogether surprised, but if the Pink Un feels it can''t tell us what the links are, there will be other sites who will.  If not Robbo, there will be others, you all know the fan based sites which publish details. 

If the current situation continues and bad times call again at our club, i wonder what the next great PR campaign will be to attract support? 

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Changing the emphasis a bit, doesn''t anyone else find the commentary totally frustrating? I found myself screaming abuse at the p.c. (suppose I should have been sent off really) totally hacked off with the witless, wittering, irrelevant chat that was going on between the two commentators. At one point I thought they were going to get the holiday snaps out. Somebody should point out to them that the purpose of a radio commentary is to describe what is happening, in real time, not to make vacuous, repetetive comments about the bleedin'' obvious; namely that things aren''t going particularly well at the moment.

                               AAAARRGHHHHH!!!!!

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I bet the club caterer''s, use "Aunt Bessie''s" pre-cooked Yorkshire puds and stuffing balls, to save a few bob in the restaurant''s!

Remember when they were going to confiscate any bootleg/non-official club merchandise on entry to Carrow Rd?

I don''t purchase programmes anymore, preferring to just look at the team sheet before kickoff. (That''ll learn ''em!)

Anyway, I just felt like a moan........ OTBC ;~)

Free Radio for all!!!!!

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[quote]What a poor piece of public relations on the part of a club who says it wants to broaden it''s reach. I subscribed to the official site but dropped it, not because I was too cheap to pay the money and ...[/quote]

I both agree with your views and have also shared your experiences YC.

This is how the club is prepared to treat those fans who''s sole wish to keep abreast of  the team''s fortunes from afar. 

I think they are taking too much for granted, the fans won''t always turn up whatever, and interest both local and distant can easily subside.

Rather than being so punitive, they should examine the official site''s quality for themselves and see if they think it is good enough as a sole means of keeping in touch.

I have been a supporter for over fifty years and find myself, as with Wiz,  being driven from the club at every turn.

 

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Alas Andrew I have done much the same many years back. How many times have I stood in front of the old wireless and shook my fist at it, shouted unsavoury abuse and even leapt up and kicked it.

What always worried poor old Mrs Dan was what I would do when I finally switched it on.

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I think it is either PremiumTV twisting the club''s arm about it, or the club being worried about what PremiumTV would do if they found out.

However, everyone complaining is approaching this in the wrong manner! Don''t complain, think about ways to get around it (sorry webteam, but this is just to keep you out of the loop should the club get shirty) - just set up an email list or something similar completely unconnected to the pinkun that can be sent around before every match. It''s not too hard for someone who subscribes to CanariesWorld to do this...count me out I''m afraid because I cannot guarantee me being around a computer every Saturday at 3pm UK time/4pm CET and sometimes have to record games.

As someone who is away for virtually the whole season, I''m happy to pay the fee as there is no other way (except once when I called home and asked my parents to leave the phone on next to the radio for the entire match when CanariesWorld wasn''t working!).

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I travel a lot and would really like to be able to get the radio commentary in different places. I do subscribe to Canaries World and am happy to pay for the subscription BUT... the link often doesn''t work and the problem-solving support is awful.

I contacted Radio Norfolk (who block their signal on the Internet when matches are on). Bizarrely, they do not own the intellectual property rights for their broadcasts if they are transmitted over the Internet but they do over the radio.

Either we should have a free service (ideally) or a subscription service that works and has good back-up services. I can''t remember how many games I have had to follow on text commentary and it is not ideal.

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[quote]We have been asked by Norwich City not to give out the link to the live match commentary which is occasionally posted on this forum. In future, therefore, messages containing the link won''t be posted....[/quote]

OK, no problem - let''s post it somewhere else

Any body got a website ?

 

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I can sympathise to some extent with the points raised above, and in the interests of full disclosure I am a paying (and actually quite happy) subscriber to CanariesWorld, but I do feel some on this board need a bit of a reality check.

If you want to see why the club clamps down on this kind of thing (to stop me cancelling my sub cos I could otherwise get it for free), read the annual accounts. We made a £3.2m loss getting promoted, and if you want to recruit and retain better players (as most on this board want us to do, and rightly so), you gotta pony up. If not, here comes League One (or worse).

And don''t even get me started on how many CW subscriptions it would cost to buy Worthy and a replacement out of their respective contracts...

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Got to say I''m very disappointed at the clubs latest decision, perhaps they are going back to the Chase days when they charged the ball boys £2 each to have their kit put through the club laundry system, how tight can you get?

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My old grandad once said that that they  are 40 thieves down at Carrow Road going back to Arthur South and Robert Chase days and looks like the same still applies trying to scrape every single penny out of the fans as they can.  Its like taking money out of bank accounts 3 weeks in advance of a game for members in order to get it into theirs for the interest.  Look after the supporters i say. 

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I don''t think the club can be blamed for premiumtv''s methods personally, but the finger should definetly be pointed at the bbc, its outrageous that they allow their radio channels to be used in a pay-per-listen manner and totally misrepresents what the bbc is all about, there should be more fuss made about this for sure!

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Some of these posts are attacking the club for being stingy, but have another look! CanariesWorld, just like 80-odd other football club websites in England are run by PremiumTV. You only need to look at their website to see they are the money-grabbers in this.

"PremiumTV is a leading publisher of broadband and mobile content in Europe. Creating, packaging and exploiting premium content for rights holders in the sports and entertainment sectors."

It looks like they have the rights to all ''digital'' audio feeds just like Sky has the image rights for the Premiership. I get the impression that PremiumTV''s objective is to manage the broadband services for the club through a tight contract to save the club time and money - in the news section, Newcastle have just bought their way out of it for £1.35 million in order to "have full ownership of its media rights and the freedom to exploit them to the full to serve the best interests of the club and its fans."

Sounds like PTV have most of the control!

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NCFC 0405''s call for some of us to have a reality check will no doubt have many of us totting up the hundreds of pounds we have spent on tickets, shares, merchandise etc. and wondering if we have not ''ponied'' up quite a bit already. I am not really sure how much the club make out of the radio deal with the BBC and the Internet deal with Premier TV but I guess it is not that much. I think that Brum Uni Canary is right that all these deals are done by the clubs en bloc as with Sky, and not by an individual club.

What seems to be missing here is a realisation as to how the Internet has changed the way people do business. If you have a paying subscription service you need a good-quality, reasonably-priced product otherwise people will find ways round it. [IMO Premier are OK on the second part of this but definitely NOT the first]. If you have the former, many people will subscribe rather than scrabbling around for ways of bypassing the official channel. If you don''t, efforts to control people will fail! We need to understand that it is almost impossible to control these channels on the Internet and if this is the strategy Premier TV/NCFC have, they will fail (as the record industry largely has) although the Pink Un may agree to go along with them.

A key problem with Premier is accessing it from different locations, e.g. a laptop, borrowed computer - over dodgy connections. I have had the experience too many times of being able to get Radio Norfolk OK over the Internet for the build up only to have that blocked and then not being able to get the Canaries World commentary!

We also need to realize that there are many ways of making money out of seemingly free products on the Internet, e.g. Google, Freeserve, Skype.

I also don''t understand why when the BBC buy the rights for radio broadcasts they don''t also buy the rights for broadcasting on the Internet at the same time. I also don''t know if they get any money from Premier for their broadcasts but it does seem somehwat bizarre. I can''t imagine Sky would let a rival do the same with their TV pictures, for example.

Finally, I liked the story of Brum Uni Canary listening to the radio over the phone for the whole game. I have contemplated doing the same over something like Skype! Perhaps we should start a thread on the most extreme way/location we have used to follow the game? For me, Internet text in dingy internet cafes in Eastern Europe has to be the saddest method I have used - particularly having three different versions going at the same time -updating them all frantically to try to find out what the real position is. I am sure if anyone from the club saw me they would try to do something about this situation!!!! [and would not accuse me of trying to do them out of a few bob.] Incidentally, does anyone know why the BBC version is so obsessed with throw-ins?!?!?!

 

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In the playoff final at cardiff i had to text my dad in turkey the outcome of each penalty that was taken... He never heard about Sutch''s miss as i was too p''d off... I think he guessed though!

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Sorry to bring this back to the top again for those who''ve bored of this thread already - I missed it.

Sadly, living far far away, I''m forced to use the World site. Luckily I''ve not had too many problems unlike some it seems.

Some of you may be unaware that the BBC actually blocks commentary for non-UK listeners for most match broadcasts - presumably because we haven''t paid license fees?
No excuse for that in England though

In the World site''s favour, I should say that in the year or two that the webcasts were completely free, they were terrible. When the connection did actually work, the commentary would be so badly relayed that it was almost impossible to tell what was going on. I don''t get any problems like that any more I have to admit.

Still, how much would it actually cost the club or Radio Norfolk to let us listen for free? It''d be nice to get something back from the club after all the money we''ve pumped into it year after year.

Course the next stage is webcasts of the images - how much are they going to cost when the club starts flogging them?
I''ll tell you - as much as they possibly can.

Unfortunately, it makes me think of that thread with the Guardian article on clubs fleecing fans....

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