Wigan Athletic

[A Load of Squit 5,108]

That went well. 😀

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

So if a large majority of paying supporters are happy with the current setup then those that that want something different will just have to keep moaning about lack of ambition etc for a club that keeps getting promoted to the EPL even though some think they are doing it wrong.

[Dr Greenthumb 746]

20 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

So if a large majority of paying supporters are happy with the current setup then those that that want something different will just have to keep moaning about lack of ambition etc for a club that keeps getting promoted to the EPL even though some think they are doing it wrong.

For every Wigan, there’s a Wolves! 

[KiwiScot 1,436]

6 minutes ago, Dr Greenthumb said:

For every Wigan, there’s a Wolves! 

Or a Watford. They all struggle eventually

[hogesar 9,609]

And Jim is still craving for this illustrious rich chinese owner!

[king canary 7,559]

9 minutes ago, KiwiScot said:

Or a Watford. They all struggle eventually

Watford? The team who are in their 5th straight Premier League Season, may well have a chance at a 6th and got to an FA Cup final last season?

Really struggling.

[Amah3 3]

49 minutes ago, king canary said:

Watford? The team who are in their 5th straight Premier League Season, may well have a chance at a 6th and got to an FA Cup final last season?

Really struggling.

Struggling to stay in the division is the point that I think he means.
 
Its a worthy one, whoever survives this season from the bottom six will no doubt be in a similar position at some point over the next few years until they too succumb to relegation. 
 

In terms of going into a season I think only Leicester and Wolves can join the current “big teams” in terms of not expecting to go down. For everyone else anything can happen in my opinion

[king canary 7,559]

13 minutes ago, Amah3 said:

Struggling to stay in the division is the point that I think he means.
 
Its a worthy one, whoever survives this season from the bottom six will no doubt be in a similar position at some point over the next few years until they too succumb to relegation. 
 

In terms of going into a season I think only Leicester and Wolves can join the current “big teams” in terms of not expecting to go down. For everyone else anything can happen in my opinion

Yes that is true- just for us the last two times we went up relegation did happen to us. For Watford it hasn't happened for 5 seasons. 

I'd rather have Watford's version of struggling than our own right now.

[hogesar 9,609]

1 minute ago, king canary said:

Yes that is true- just for us the last two times we went up relegation did happen to us. For Watford it hasn't happened for 5 seasons. 

I'd rather have Watford's version of struggling than our own right now.

Each to their own. Other than the final they got trounced in we've probably had more entertainment.

[Dr Greenthumb 746]

1 hour ago, KiwiScot said:

Or a Watford. They all struggle eventually

Financially? 

[king canary 7,559]

3 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Each to their own. Other than the final they got trounced in we've probably had more entertainment.

Depends how far back you go I guess. 

Since the turn of the millennium they've been promoted twice, been to an FA Cup fina, three FA Cup semi finals, one league cup semi final, two playoff finals and another playoff appearance. I reckon if you were a Watford fan of my age you'd probably not feel short changed in the excitement stakes.

[hogesar 9,609]

1 minute ago, king canary said:

Depends how far back you go I guess. 

Since the turn of the millennium they've been promoted twice, been to an FA Cup fina, three FA Cup semi finals, one league cup semi final, two playoff finals and another playoff appearance. I reckon if you were a Watford fan of my age you'd probably not feel short changed in the excitement stakes.

Apologies, I was comparing their last 5 seasons to ours. And that's where it depends on, I guess, if staying in the prem is more important than general entertainment in football!

[king canary 7,559]

Just now, hogesar said:

Apologies, I was comparing their last 5 seasons to ours. And that's where it depends on, I guess, if staying in the prem is more important than general entertainment in football!

The two aren't mutually exclusive though.

I know we've not enjoyed the Premier League of late but it doesn't have to a soul destroying experience.

In the last five years Watford have twice got to the semi finals of the FA Cup while we've not been there since 1992. 

Yeah we had a couple of fun Championship seasons in there but I'm not sure that makes it more exciting.

[PurpleCanary 5,553]

It is all a bit unclear, and it may be the ownership was not to blame here, but there is sometimes a lack of transparency with Chinese owners and even those operating in Hong Kong, as here.

Whelan sold to this HK (actually Cayman Islands) company called IEC and then in June IEC sold the club to this New Leader Fund. Except that the owner of IEC had been the owner of the New Leader Fund, with the now owner of the NFL only a minority stakeholder.

What would have raised an eyebrow with me is that around the time IEC bought Wigan,  IEC's annual turnover (2019) was only about £45m, and the company had made a loss for the last three years. Which in terms of financially supporting a Championship club does not sound ideal. Of course the IEC owner may have other sources of wealth. But there seems to be no public information on the finances of the now owner of the NLF.

If the now owner of the NFL was until recently only the minority shareholder, with the then majority shareholder not obviously rolling in money to spend on football,  it does raise the question as to whether this was a viable long-term proposition as far as either was concerned. Yes, the pandemic is a serious financial blow, but owners should be able to cope with the unexpected.

[BroadstairsR 2,135]

If I won Euro millions, the National Lottery and number 29 came up ten times in a row on SkyBet's roulette wheel all in one week I still would never invest in a  football club.

(I would pay for City's new stand though and only need a year's supply of Delia's pies in exchange.)

[king canary 7,559]

9 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

It is all a bit unclear, and it may be the ownership was not to blame here, but there is sometimes a lack of transparency with Chinese owners and even those operating in Hong Kong, as here.

Whelan sold to this HK (actually Cayman Islands) company called IEC and then in June IEC sold the club to this New Leader Fund. Except that the owner of IEC had been the owner of the New Leader Fund, with the now owner of the NFL only a minority stakeholder.

What would have raised an eyebrow with me is that around the time IEC bought Wigan,  IEC's annual turnover (2019) was only about £45m, and the company had made a loss for the last three years. Which in terms of financially supporting a Championship club does not sound ideal. Of course the IEC owner may have other sources of wealth. But there seems to be no public information on the finances of the now owner of the NLF.

If the now owner of the NFL was until recently only the minority shareholder, with the then majority shareholder not obviously rolling in money to spend on football,  it does raise the question as to whether this was a viable long-term proposition as far as either was concerned. Yes, the pandemic is a serious financial blow, but owners should be able to cope with the unexpected.

So the stinking rich Chinese owner was in fact just a quite rich Chinese owner?

Also, a quick glance at Transfermarkt doesn't suggest they've been crazy in their spending in recent seasons- they spent about £7m this season, made a profit on transfers the 3 seasons prior (including a large chunk from us for Yanic Wildschutt!) so this doesn't seem to be a simple story of reckless spending beyond their means.

[hogesar 9,609]

22 minutes ago, king canary said:

The two aren't mutually exclusive though.

I know we've not enjoyed the Premier League of late but it doesn't have to a soul destroying experience.

In the last five years Watford have twice got to the semi finals of the FA Cup while we've not been there since 1992. 

Yeah we had a couple of fun Championship seasons in there but I'm not sure that makes it more exciting.

It's more mutually exclusive in this comparison than others. Again, it depends, and i'm not criticising. Some people would rather finish midtable in the prem, maybe and maybe not get to a quarter or semi-final. Some would rather watch a promotion season in the championship, a Wembley play-off final etc. Neither situations happen repetitively - neither are guaranteed. I'm just comparing Watfords last 5 years to ours a per your original comparison post. 

I think a good amount of fans will prefer Watfords, you'll hardly be on your own. Heck, maybe I would too - I haven't watched enough of them to know how entertaining they were. In the last 5 years they seem to average around 10-12 premier league wins a season. Take our Man City game this season - that'll live in the memory longer than the 3-3 draw against Forest so just a few of those each season would probably throw weight in one direction. 

For me, I've really enjoyed the recent years and I don't think any NCFC fan has any right to complain when you look over the entire history of time the size of our club, positioning, size of fanbase etc etc etc.

[PurpleCanary 5,553]

3 hours ago, king canary said:

So the stinking rich Chinese owner was in fact just a quite rich Chinese owner?

Also, a quick glance at Transfermarkt doesn't suggest they've been crazy in their spending in recent seasons- they spent about £7m this season, made a profit on transfers the 3 seasons prior (including a large chunk from us for Yanic Wildschutt!) so this doesn't seem to be a simple story of reckless spending beyond their means.

Well, who knows?! I don't have access to the interview S&J did with the Times but I have a feeling MWJ more ruled out Chinese investment in particular, presumably because of the lack of business transparency, rather than overseas money in general. Whether he did or not, there are potential dangers there.

[king canary 7,559]

1 hour ago, PurpleCanary said:

Well, who knows?! I don't have access to the interview S&J did with the Times but I have a feeling MWJ more ruled out Chinese investment in particular, presumably because of the lack of business transparency, rather than overseas money in general. Whether he did or not, there are potential dangers there.

I think he was a bit more measured in that interview than he was at the agm on the topic of investment from overseas.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

It would be interesting to know how many stinking rich owners hang around if the team is relegated or permanently near the bottom

[Bill 1,788]

5 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

It would be interesting to know how many stinking rich owners hang around if the team is relegated or permanently near the bottom

Why would they ?

Sorry to disappoint the numpties but these folk are not 'kindly old uncles' all too ready to hand over large sums of money with nothing expected in return,

for many it is a means of 'laundering' money and/or making money through very shady transfer deals and contracts.

The lower leagues are littered with clubs who have found this to their cost

[Well b back 3,179]

TheChampionship could be in disarray ( as to league 1 and 2 ) with reports that another 15 clubs are about to enter administration.

[TIL 1010 4,717]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53262876

The administrators state that they have had 10 expressions of interest in Wigan.

Before this post is jumped on i do realise that it depends on a whole array of circumstances not least proof of funds ( whatever the price may in fact be ) but for a club about to play in a Division on its uppers it does make you wonder what would happen to Norwich City if it came to a similar situation of being available to purchase.

Tin hat at the ready.

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,017]

18 hours ago, king canary said:

Yes that is true- just for us the last two times we went up relegation did happen to us. For Watford it hasn't happened for 5 seasons. 

I'd rather have Watford's version of struggling than our own right now.

I would agree with their on pitch performance, it will be interesting to see how their finances hold up if they are relegated, particularly if the new season continues to be played behind closed doors for a while...........

[king canary 7,559]

12 hours ago, Bill said:

for many it is a means of 'laundering' money and/or making money through very shady transfer deals and contracts.

That is quite an accusation and one I'd imagine you'd struggle to back up.

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,017]

7 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53262876

The administrators state that they have had 10 expressions of interest in Wigan.

Before this post is jumped on i do realise that it depends on a whole array of circumstances not least proof of funds ( whatever the price may in fact be ) but for a club about to play in a Division on its uppers it does make you wonder what would happen to Norwich City if it came to a similar situation of being available to purchase.

Tin hat at the ready.

On the BBC this morning they were saying that Dave Whelan is making noises about helping Wigan financially if he can........

 

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,017]

On my response I also meant to say that you can trace some clubs demise back to over spending/over committing to chase the Premier League dream, Coventry, Bolton, Wigan, Ipswich and Portsmouth spring to mind. For football it could be a long, cold, hard winter. As a football fan I hate to see clubs going to the wall.........

[Hucks6 169]

Hope Delia can get somebody to buy city. This play thing is not good, If there is about 10 potential buyers for Wigan somebody could buy a club like Norwich who are not in debt otbc

[king canary 7,559]

4 minutes ago, Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB said:

I would agree with their on pitch performance, it will be interesting to see how their finances hold up if they are relegated, particularly if the new season continues to be played behind closed doors for a while...........

I think they've kept their wage budget reasonably low (by Premier League standards) and think they've got a few players who they may be able to shift for decent fees.

[hogesar 9,609]

6 minutes ago, king canary said:

I think they've kept their wage budget reasonably low (by Premier League standards) and think they've got a few players who they may be able to shift for decent fees.

I guess, but their average salary is still well over double ours so I guess it depends who they move on for good money.