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TIL 1010

McNally, Saint or Sinner ?

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Engaging with fans on Twatter last night seems to have caused quite a stir with opinions on his tenure as CEO being split on various NCFC forums this morning with hindsight yet again rising to the surface.
My opinion is that he has been the best CEO by a country mile at this club since that position was introduced. His vision and ruthlessness was badly needed back in 2009 which in itself raises many questions as to who was at fault for our shortcomings and perilous financial postion. His stock rose and he seemed in total control of everything as the years rolled by but those last couple of years at least before the resignation it now turns out some serious errors of judgement were made.Yes the debts were paid but Bowkett had a big hand in that  before his resignation which is shrouded in mystery even today. My information is and i am not repeating it on here that McNally was a major player in that such was his influence with the rest of the board.
Player recruitment and scouting according to Webber resulted in us '' pi$$ing the money against the wall ''  so McNally i suggest played a big part of that towards the end. Why was Colney neglected ? The £2 million or so internal loans which were paid back would have gone a long way to sorting out Colney unless there was pressure from within for it to be returned to the boardroom instead. What was the view on McNally on that i wonder ?
His tenure was a rollercoaster and what went on before he arrived and was has gone on since his departure make him in my eyes a saint.
I was a vocal critic of his during the latter stages and i will hold my hands about that.

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He started off really well but faded in the last two years, possibly because he was hamstrung by the owners veto on all major decisions? In the last couple of years I felt he was in it for what he could personally get out of it and didn''t have the club''s best interests at heart. Totally different from the beginning. His strange departure tells you all was not well at the board level

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I don''t know if McNally reads this forum, but I am sure he would be amused to find himself being described as a saint[A]...
His virtues were his vices. It is clear that he and Bowkett decided - probably correctly - that there was a lack of ruthlessness in the way the club was run, and they determined to rectify that by going to the other extreme. Sometimes that worked and sometimes it was distinctly counter-productive.

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Getting us from League 1 to the Premier League and wiping the debt makes him a saint IMO.

Obviously the club as a whole made mistakes, of which he would be at least partially to blame.

Whilst Colney has been somewhat neglected, he did state (both times that we got promoted) that we would be spending every penny on the playing squad to maximise our chances of staying up. Not too many people disagreed with him at the time.

The major downfall, in my opinion (from the outside looking in), was the lack of structure put in place to support the manager. The new system that Stewart Webber has introduced makes a lot more sense to me - in terms of continuity.

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[quote user="TIL 1010"]
I was a vocal critic of his during the latter stages and i will hold my hands about that.
[/quote]
LOL
And at the start when he was getting shot of the various fans initiatives. And in the middle when he was describing you dissenters as purveyors of piffle. In fact the only time I remember you not being was 2011 to 2013 and just after the play off final. Nothing wrong with being a vocal critic mind...
I think McNally''s being a bit naughty here. The most sensible thing I ever heard him say was that success in football is cyclical. He knew that our club would be no different to others.
As for last season. Well let''s look at how other clubs fared in their final season of parachute payments since we were promoted in 2011.
Wolves finished 7th and they''d been in League One. 
Blackburn finished 9th
Bolton finished 18th
Wigan won League One
Reading finished 17th
Cardiff finished 12th
Fulham finished 6th
QPR finished 16th
So it''s ok to say we were embarrassing only if you accept embarrassing as the norm for clubs in the final year of parachute payments.

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Nutty could you please post how much those clubs received in parachute payments as opposed to us because my feeling is we received more than any of them? If you must post stats give the full picture.

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Really?

The point is that budgets are set on what the parachutes payments will be. How much is irrelevant because the players will be on contracts governed by what the parachute payment will be.

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We wasted the parachute money end of so why you posted a list of other clubs i do not know.

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Because when I judge our club I judge them on reality. Not on whatever springs to mind at the time.

What players were much of the parachute payments wasted on?

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Now you are wandering out of the world of reality because you judge our club on romance. This thread title is McNally a Saint or a Sinner but of course you have not answered . I gave a view that overall i thonk he was a Saint. Many things he did wrong but what do you think would have happened had he not come to Norwich City and where would we be now without him ?

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"]
I don''t know if McNally reads this forum, but I am sure he would be amused to find himself being described as a saint[A]...
His virtues were his vices. It is clear that he and Bowkett decided - probably correctly - that there was a lack of ruthlessness in the way the club was run, and they determined to rectify that by going to the other extreme. Sometimes that worked and sometimes it was distinctly counter-productive.
[/quote]
To add, perhaps McNally doesn''t want to get back into football, or an executive position in any kind of serious business, but if he does this ill-judged outburst is hardly the way to go about it.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]Because when I judge our club I judge them on reality. Not on whatever springs to mind at the time.

What players were much of the parachute payments wasted on?[/quote]
I took the words of Webber at face value when he said words to the effect we pi$$ed all the money up the wall.

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[quote user="TIL 1010"]
Now you are wandering out of the world of reality because you judge our club on romance. This thread title is McNally a Saint or a Sinner but of course you have not answered . I gave a view that overall i thonk he was a Saint. Many things he did wrong but what do you think would have happened had he not come to Norwich City and where would we be now without him ?
[/quote]
Who knows what would have happened but I''m glad he did. I like the bloke and despite things being said to the contrary he was first class helping us divert Rays Funds from the academy to the CSF.
However he''s being a bit naughty with these tweets. Despite the fact he left in 2015 he actually spent a lot of our parachute payments.
Yes we wasted ours. And that''s the point of the other list of clubs because they all wasted theirs. If you get to the final year of parachute payments then by that very definition they have been wasted. But as I said above a fair chunk is already wasted on the players who get you relegated. Add to that the squad you have going into that final year have also failed to get you promoted. There is no option but to tear it up and start again.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="TIL 1010"]
I was a vocal critic of his during the latter stages and i will hold my hands about that.
[/quote]
LOL
And at the start when he was getting shot of the various fans initiatives. And in the middle when he was describing you dissenters as purveyors of piffle. In fact the only time I remember you not being was 2011 to 2013 and just after the play off final. Nothing wrong with being a vocal critic mind...
[/quote]
[:D]
I have to say, this is brilliant from Til. Regularly criticise McNally when he''s in charge, and even when he''s left...initially. But now it''s an opportunity to lay into the current board he''s become the god of all gods. 

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[quote user="TIL 1010"]
[quote user="nutty nigel"]Because when I judge our club I judge them on reality. Not on whatever springs to mind at the time.

What players were much of the parachute payments wasted on?[/quote]
I took the words of Webber at face value when he said words to the effect we pi$$ed all the money up the wall.
[/quote]
I didn''t. It was tendentious spin from someone with a clear motive to paint his predecessors as incompetents and their actions as having left him with an almost impossible mess to clear up. And it didn''t square with the financial reality, which was that there had been some mistakes made and some wasted money, but not markedly more than at most clubs.

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[quote user="Yellow and Green"] ............The major downfall, in my opinion (from the outside looking in), was the lack of structure put in place to support the manager. The new system that Stewart Webber has introduced makes a lot more sense to me - in terms of continuity.[/quote]
In fact McNally was fully aware of the need for a different structure; it was the reason he instituted the much-ridiculed "Football Board" following relegation at the end of Hughton''s second season. The most pertinent question is why McNally settled for such a "neither this nor that" solution rather than the structure we have now (which as Parma has pointed out, would have been far better introduced at that point rather than a year ago). My guess is that McNally was determined to retain his own power vis a vis football decisions, which appointment of a fully-fledged Director of Football would have meant. This latest Twitter performance simply serves to reinforce my impression of McNally being yesterday''s man.

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[quote user="hogesar"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="TIL 1010"]
I was a vocal critic of his during the latter stages and i will hold my hands about that.
[/quote]
LOL
And at the start when he was getting shot of the various fans initiatives. And in the middle when he was describing you dissenters as purveyors of piffle. In fact the only time I remember you not being was 2011 to 2013 and just after the play off final. Nothing wrong with being a vocal critic mind...
[/quote]
[:D]
I have to say, this is brilliant from Til. Regularly criticise McNally when he''s in charge, and even when he''s left...initially. But now it''s an opportunity to lay into the current board he''s become the god of all gods. 
[/quote]
How convenient Hoggy to not mention where i said McNally had made many mistakes but then again probably when you have a agenda not for the first time to play the poster and not the post it is to be expected. Maybe also you could point out in this thread where i have been critical of the current board ?

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It may be partly spin but I stl think he''s pretty correct when talking about pissing money up the walk under McNally and Neil.

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"McNally, who over saw three promotions and two relegations whilst at City, said the club would have gone all out for promotion last season with the last of the parachute payments if he had still been in charge."

Interesting comments to make considering what''s been going on at Villa this last week. I like Mcnally for what he achieved here but this comment is bizarre, is he just trying to sell an upcoming book? he seems to have retweeted a few people asking about this so I wonder if its so.

This isn''t Football Manager, you can''t just restart when it all goes wrong.

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[quote user="TIL 1010"][quote user="hogesar"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="TIL 1010"]
I was a vocal critic of his during the latter stages and i will hold my hands about that.
[/quote]
LOL
And at the start when he was getting shot of the various fans initiatives. And in the middle when he was describing you dissenters as purveyors of piffle. In fact the only time I remember you not being was 2011 to 2013 and just after the play off final. Nothing wrong with being a vocal critic mind...
[/quote]
[:D]
I have to say, this is brilliant from Til. Regularly criticise McNally when he''s in charge, and even when he''s left...initially. But now it''s an opportunity to lay into the current board he''s become the god of all gods. 
[/quote]
How convenient Hoggy to not mention where i said McNally had made many mistakes but then again probably when you have a agenda not for the first time to play the poster and not the post it is to be expected. Maybe also you could point out in this thread where i have been critical of the current board ?
[/quote]
To be fair Hoggy, my post to Tilly was about times we spent together during McNally''s reign. And like I said there''s nothing wrong with being a vocal critic.
This is turning out to be a good thread.

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We were successful under him and he managed to cut our debt. So he will always be a saint in my eyes. He did have a sinner side to him, but that''s just the way he operated !

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IMO, he was incredibly well paid for what he brought to the club and any balancing of finances was down to Mr Bowkett not McNally, who took in excess of £1m pa from the club. I am also of the firm opinion that some transfers failed because ‘certain criteria’ were not met.

I also wonder why he has not appeared again, is it because he is financially sound and doesn’t need the money, or is it because no-one else wants him, for whatever reason???

IMO, we were well rid, for all sorts of reasons.

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[quote user="westcoastcanary"][quote user="Yellow and Green"] ............The major downfall, in my opinion (from the outside looking in), was the lack of structure put in place to support the manager. The new system that Stewart Webber has introduced makes a lot more sense to me - in terms of continuity.[/quote]
In fact McNally was fully aware of the need for a different structure; it was the reason he instituted the much-ridiculed "Football Board" following relegation at the end of Hughton''s second season. The most pertinent question is why McNally settled for such a "neither this nor that" solution rather than the structure we have now (which as Parma has pointed out, would have been far better introduced at that point rather than a year ago). My guess is that McNally was determined to retain his own power vis a vis football decisions, which appointment of a fully-fledged Director of Football would have meant. This latest Twitter performance simply serves to reinforce my impression of McNally being yesterday''s man.
[/quote]
Very well put West Coast and makes a lot of sense.  People give up power very reluctantly and it is credit to the present board set up that the football side of things has been delegated to football people, not board members.

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Mcnally was just what was needed at the time , he took the club by the scruff of the neck and was very good at the start like others have said his later years i think he got to comfortable almost like he was untouchable

i am a little surprised it has took him this long to fire off a few tweets though with Webber stating that others before him pi$$ed away the money

Mcnally and others of course brought success to this club Webber has not yet would i have a Mcnally first couple of years over a webber hell yes !

I remember when Mcnally took over / arrived he got straight down to business he was not full of excuses buying himself time like webber has

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I’ve got a lot of time for him. Brought some much needed ruthlessness to the club, helped sort out our finances and brought some of the most enjoyable years I’ve had supporting the club I love.

Also, on a personal level I was training for the London marathon at the time and engaged in a few private messages on twitter with him. He was genuinely a decent guy and offered up some great advice and inspiration. Something he didn’t have to do to help someone who was just a fan of effectively his employer.

Last nights tweeets probably weren’t a great idea but I kind of like the idea he is still passionate about the club and how we are doing.

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Definitely a marmite character but you could never accuse him of being boring.He was the breath of fresh air we needed in 2009 and he certainly turned it around. He had one or two personal problems towards the end when he not unnaturally took his eye off the ball and it all came off the rails.A bit naughty trying to blame his successors for our current predicament but from me he gets a saint vote.

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I would say he was a bit of both. His greatest moment was obviously the ruthless removal of Gunny and sourcing Paul Lambert as his replacement because you could argue that was the decision which has had the single biggest effect on our fortunes over the last decade. In truth (Adams aside - and they rectified that one quite quickly) all of his managerial appointments were pretty successful in that they did what they needed to do at the time. Our problems have in recent years generally tended to be with the timing of removing managers rather than making disastrous appointments.

I really feel that he lost his way mid way through Hughton''s second season although obviously he had another little peak with promotion the following season and the appointment of Neil. Quite why that was i''m not sure, possibly a combination of things. I would love to see him give an in depth interview so we could understand a bit more about the dynamic at the club in recent years and what people like Bowkett and McNally really think/thought of the Tom succession plan and the refusal to consider new ownership of the club.

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As others have said, McNally was the perfect man to come in and shake Norwich up. Sacking Gunn at the earliest possible moment was vital and many CEOs new to the job might have baulked at such a decision. (Shame he upset Gunn so much that he moved to Manchester to take Angus to a different club but ce la vie).

McNally however seemed out of his depth when the club actually had money. He never got to grips with setting up a robust recruitment team and was left behind when teams stared to develop analytics departments etc. When he finally tried to catch-up and set up the ‘transfer board’ it was appears it was a bit of a muddle and never seemed to work out. (Although Ricky Martin did good work getting Godfrey, Maddison etc).

Like how managers struggle to do all the roles required in the modern game, CEOs are also struggling. The structure Norwich have now is what will eventually be the norm. A money man in charge of the money and a football man in charge of the football. McNally was good at money and not bad at football - but just couldn’t quite cut it at Prem level.

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I agree with Jim - he was definitely part both.

He gave us direction and drive when we needed it and had a fantastic impact in the lower leagues.

However he was also an instrumental part (part - not sole) of the reasons for our downturn; an apparent god like delusion at his importance to the club (which seems to persist given his current outburst, Koubilaly comments and the fact that repaying just £2-£5m director loans relegated us) and his ability to manage both finances and the footballing side, leading to a poor structure, particularly in identifying quality recruitment post Lambert, leaving us with a legacy of players lengthy, pricey contracts to players who were unlikely to be moved on should we get relegated. That is always a tough balance but he failed to strike it.

Most managers have a limited lifeshelf at a club, and it seems the same applies to CEOs. For me, McNally became increasingly erratic towards the end of his time with us and the time to leave was right. There is little to suggest that thing would definitely been better had he stayed. The seeds had already been sown.

The club appeared to have no succession plan for the CEO role and/or then made the wrong choice in his successor (Moxey), effectively left us rudderless in the key summer of the main parachute payment & all played into leaving us where we are now.

The structure appears solid now and all we can do is build from here.

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