Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
king canary

How 'Long Term' can we really plan?

Recommended Posts

There is a lot of talk of developing players, developing a playing style and ''long term'' projects with our current structure. Yet this current transfer window is already making me wonder quite how far into the future we can really plan.

We''re probably losing Maddison after one good season, Josh has also had one good season in our team and is already off.

We''re looking like we''ll need to replace our goalkeeper, top scorer, top creator, second top scorer and long term ''talisman'' all in one window before we even think of strengthening and addressing weaker areas of the squad.

Can we really plan long term or are we in a succession of one season chances with some heavy resets happening every summer?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don''t know any teams in the England in the top two divisions that are building for the future while not being successful in the present.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Clubs can plan long term when it comes to establishing philosophies, improving youth recruitment and development, succession routes, analytics and recruitment etc. But when it comes to players and coaches you can’t really plan for much more than a season/18 months - what you need to establish to be successful is ways to manage change with as little disruption as possible. This is why the Sporting Director helps, as it should provide long term leadership and direction. It also helps to have a consistent ownership with a shared vision.

Clubs which continuously do well at the highest level are those which look beyond individual players and have a clear vision. Even Real Madrid with its galactico policy always made sure the players it targeted fitted certain ideals and playing styles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
We did it once before. Sort of. When Saunders was sacked/walked out Arthur South brought in John Bond, with his West Ham-passing-style background, specifically to make us more attractive to watch than we had been (lthough.Bond was an up and coming manager, who might have been in the frame under any circumstances).And that philosophy of playing lasted beyond Bond, through Ken Brown and Stringer, where it reached its apogee, to Walker, who arguably made it a bit more pragmatic. And those were our most successful years, although changes in football economics/finance greatly helped us.
With a sporting director in effect choosing the head coach it should be possible - even easier - to replicate that kind of continuation of style. The difference  is that more recent changes in football economics/finance are now working against us.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It is a concern that the top clubs move so swiftly to snap up youngsters who are showing promise these days meaning the reality is that when we do bring through these youngsters we are only likely to have them for one or two seasons if they perform well. Maddison is a case in point and if Lewis has another decent season he will be linked with moves. The conveyor belt is going to have to consistently produce.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Jim Smith"]It is a concern that the top clubs move so swiftly to snap up youngsters who are showing promise these days meaning the reality is that when we do bring through these youngsters we are only likely to have them for one or two seasons if they perform well. Maddison is a case in point and if Lewis has another decent season he will be linked with moves. The conveyor belt is going to have to consistently produce.[/quote]

Also on from that they then get limited chances and patience in the top league, find themselves on the bench/reserves with a stalling career. That''s modern football for you, I guess.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bethnal This is why the Sporting Director helps, as it should provide long term leadership and direction

Webber has never stayed anywhere long but also my worry we might end up having 2 / 3 head coaches in Webbers time here

but who is judging Webber''s performance he can replace Head coaches and they will take the blame but did he buy the right players ? was it his fault he gave the head coaches the wrong tools for the job ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What makes you think there is a strategy let alone a plan?

We seek to stumble from one bad decision to the next

We are facing into many years of a struggle to stay in the division

It''s incredible how far we have fallen in such a short period

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Webber hasn’t really been around long enough himself to have had a long track record at one club. He left Huddersfield as he was told of their plan to close down the academy and he didn’t agree with that and wanted an academy to develop players.

The theory is if you have a Sporting Director then head coaches are interchangeable fairly easily and shouldn’t be a huge issue to change the man in that position. Doesn’t always work out that way of course, but it is certainly less of an overhaul than the traditional manager.

Webber is accountable to the board, like McNally was and Stone is. My hope is that if Webber doesn’t work out that the structure isn’t ditched and a new Sporting Director is appointed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Josh and Maddison are both players that we''ve developed.

We can plan long term and short term as every team does, but we do it particularly well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Selling someone in most transfer windows for a big profit may well be part of the plan for now, while we rehabilitate financially.

Josh and Madders will fetch in excess of 35m. The important thing is replacing them through developing talent.

I think Webber''s view is that we may have to be a selling club, but to try and be a selling club whilst growing and establishing in the Premier League like Southampton did. Given the situation we''re in, that seems like a good idea to me.

If Cantwell comes in, for instance, and has a good season either this year or next, he may be the next to leave. The important thing is spotting and developing the talent coming through next.

One season turned Maddison from a 2.5m player to a 25m player. I love the man for his contribution, but a club in the Championship without rich owners can''t reject that sort of money for someone who could be one cruciate away from being worth a fraction of his current value.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don''t see how anyone can liken us to Southampton, apart from the selling bit, they didn''t sell while in the championship they sold while they have been in the premier league and last season they very nearly paid the price. Unless of course it''s meant as we are the championships version if so lets just hope we don''t pay price and end up in league 1.

Our Academy has not recently produced anywhere near the level of talent that theirs has, as the Murphy brothers have been the exception rather than the rule over recent years. I''m hoping the new investment raised by the bond (which I invested in) is going to change that as we''re going to need it to if our plan is to sell most valuable players one and sometimes two each window.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
A long term plan is fine, I am all for it, but to be honest so much of this comes down to luck. We are going to be scrapping around with the other lower Chump sides looking for our Michu, we may find him we may not. I love the idea of a playing style, a philosophy that permeates through the club, but ultimately what you need is top quality players and to get those you need money or to be lucky.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The problem with long term plans is they take a long time to find out if successful

I think we need a short time plan more urgently

We have Nothing to say Farke is going to be a success and Webber only has the Huddersfield getting up on his CV but how much of that was down to Wagner who knows

To put the trust in these two young men is a gamble not like a more Experienced Manager who has done it a few times with different clubs

i would say at the moment Webber is sorting out behind the scenes like Colney the scouting etc but we have been far less successful on the pitch

I am worried with Webber about this Wait it all takes time excuses he comes out with and there may well be nothing at the end of it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
a one dimensional long term plan, imaging if Farke is sacked, would a new coach want half a germany squad !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="hairpie"]a one dimensional long term plan, imaging if Farke is sacked, would a new coach want half a germany squad ![/quote]

I wouldn''t mind if it was made up of half the Germany squad!

however I do agree with your point it''d be tough to not go with another continental option from here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don''t really get the emphasis upon "German."

Any new coach nowadays inherits a mixture of nationalities in any case and will have to decide just who he can work with based upon his requirements and not their nationality.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="norfolkngood"]The problem with long term plans is they take a long time to find out if successful

I think we need a short time plan more urgently

We have Nothing to say Farke is going to be a success and Webber only has the Huddersfield getting up on his CV but how much of that was down to Wagner who knows

To put the trust in these two young men is a gamble not like a more Experienced Manager who has done it a few times with different clubs [/quote]
Mike McCarthy is available [:P]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="BroadstairsR"]I don''t really get the emphasis upon "German."

Any new coach nowadays inherits a mixture of nationalities in any case and will have to decide just who he can work with based upon his requirements and not their nationality.[/quote]

I agree it shouldn''t matter, however I think any lower league British coach will probably struggle to deal with the mix of nationalities especially as our squad is now made up of predominantly foreign players. Also like it or not this country is inherently lazy when it comes to communication in any other language than English and you will no doubt have seen many English footballer talking on telly they barely can speak that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Of the Germans we have signed, there''s probably only Franke that has been disappointing with the jury still out on the January arrivals.

I would say that none have been stand out "promotion winning" signings yet though, probably Hanley was the only permanent signing last season that you could give that title to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Van Wink: “but ultimately what you need is top quality players and to get those you need money or to be lucky.”

How much did Grant Holt or the Murphy twins cost? And Ross McCormack? I’m sure you can dredge up contrary examples too of cheap sh*t players and expensive good ones, but it’s not all about money. Good scouting and a good academy can go a long way. I know little about our scouts (although the purchase of Hanley suggests we have at least one good one in the UK) but we are definitely doing the right thing with the academy, as Webber clearly believes too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="king canary"]There is a lot of talk of developing players, developing a playing style and ''long term'' projects with our current structure. Yet this current transfer window is already making me wonder quite how far into the future we can really plan.

We''re probably losing Maddison after one good season, Josh has also had one good season in our team and is already off.

We''re looking like we''ll need to replace our goalkeeper, top scorer, top creator, second top scorer and long term ''talisman'' all in one window before we even think of strengthening and addressing weaker areas of the squad.

Can we really plan long term or are we in a succession of one season chances with some heavy resets happening every summer?[/quote]

Like I said before, we are now well and truly a feeder club for the EPL - top end of the Championship.

Look at all the players sold since relegation - Howson, Brady, Olsson, both Murphys, Jerome, Pritchard and soon Maddison.

By the time Lewis is sold that will be the full set and there will be no one anyone else wants.

Delia''s mission to get us back to L1 is bang on course.

Norwich City will never be able to build a side because Delia will sell the players so she can stay in power. And to think that people still come on here and complain about Chase. It is just ridiculous.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If we are unfortunately struggling at Christmas, (or maybe before then). I personally think the proposed ''Long Term'' plan may be deemed unacceptable by a majority of NCFC support......and there may be unrest and dissent in the stands......

I would also assume the current majority shareholding duo, wouldn''t contemplate handing their reins over to NepoTominism until the club is doing well, both on and off the pitch.....and the club finances are in good fettle.....''Long Term'' may be the proposed plan, but that means the support must accept that and be patient......Let''s hope, the loyal support are all accepting and patient for the ''Long Term'' plan, for it to bear fruition.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nuff Said wrote the following post at 13/06/2018 1:58 PM:

Van Wink: “but ultimately what you need is top quality players and to get those you need money or to be lucky.”

How much did Grant Holt or the Murphy twins cost? And Ross

McCormack? I’m sure you can dredge up contrary examples too of cheap

sh*t players and expensive good ones, but it’s not all about money. Good

scouting and a good academy can go a long way. I know little about our

scouts (although the purchase of Hanley suggests we have at least one

good one in the UK) but we are definitely doing the right thing with the

academy, as Webber clearly believes too.

Indeed, but when you are shopping in the bargain basement even with all the advantages of good scouts, structures and expert knowledge, a slice of luck is still a vital ingreedient for success imo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Jim Smith"]It is a concern that the top clubs move so swiftly to snap up youngsters who are showing promise these days meaning the reality is that when we do bring through these youngsters we are only likely to have them for one or two seasons if they perform well. Maddison is a case in point and if Lewis has another decent season he will be linked with moves. The conveyor belt is going to have to consistently produce.[/quote]

This isn''t new. Ron Davies; Kevin Reeves; Justin Fashanu; Chris Sutton; Dave Watson; Steve Bruce etc. All players who went for sums which teams like Norwich cannot turn down.

Nothing has changed except for the size of the cheque. The conveyor belt did produce until the Roeder era, hence our trip to League One.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
We are building for long term championship mediocrity... So yes We can....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
............In the year 4545
You ain''t gonna need your teeth, won''t need your eyes
much sooner for some on here

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...