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Big O

The impacts of relegation from the PL

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All,

A bit of a winge about the gap between the premier league and the rest in terms of funding. It’s such a shame that British football is becoming as uncompetitive as every other league in Europe and that smaller clubs like us have to walk such a tight rope with finances. I think the common consensus is that NCFC are having to tread carefully with finances, yet that is despite us selling..

Redmond-£12m

Olson-£5m

Brady -£13m

Howson-£5m

Jerome-£3m

Hooper-£3m I think

Pritchard-£12m

Murphy-£13m

Murphy-£11m

Doran’s -£600k

I’m sure I’ve missed some and I fully get that we have re invested some funds in buying Pritchard and the players that came in last summer but that is c£80m of talent and that is about to be swelled by the Maddison exit.

I’m hopeful as everyone else that SW will pull some rabbits out of the hat and build a sustainable model based on youth but I fear it will be a while before we will have a real stab at the championship title or the PL again.

Even at this level clubs like forest are throwing about £13m on players. Madness.

Hoping DF will get the best out of us this year but the impact of that relegation and the outlay on Jarvis, klose, Naismith etc is huge. Surely football is the bubble that will burst at some point?

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Good post and shows just how much money the stowmarket 2 have wasted on bang average players

We now have a strategy of spending even more money on bang average Germans

You couldn''t make it up

Delia out stinking rich Arab owner in

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None of those players should be described as ''bang average''. Only two failed to make an impact, one due to injury and the other was Hooper,

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Have to say that I feel like this too... But try not to take it as serious as I used to. My interest in sports with a level playing field to start with , has grown. The American way of doing things , is better imo...makes competitions much more attractive... But no way football will ever start working with franchises etc... (wouldn''t be a good thing for our club I reckon).

But the money has "decreased" my interest in football a lot... I support NCFC , I always will and I go to the matches I can go to. But I don''t watch MOTD every saturday like I used to and less live matches on Sky.

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Money has esentially ruined football as a competitive sport. It isn''t about the best coaching or managing or tactics or players it is about who can spend the most.

Fans were so willing to accept the idea that football clubs are first and foremost a business without thinking about the fact that businesses exist to make money. So now we have a situation where for 99% of clubs finishing 17th in the Premier League (or 4th for some bigger teams) is more important than winning trophies, where finishing in a European place is considered an inconvenience for many as it gets in the way of that all important league placing next season.

I''ve found myself gravitating more and more towards American sports (which have their flaws) simply because money isn''t everything in those competitions. My NFL team won the Superbowl last year, not because they spent more but because they coached, drafted and built better than the 31 other teams.

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At some point the money bubble will burst.
We are already seeing issues with Championship clubs attempting to buy they way into the Premier League.
Derby have broken Fair Play rules. Villa are on the verge of administration. QPR are now nowhere.
Wolves plan worked but they have spent multi multi millions doing so. It will be interesting to see of the owners of Wolves have the wherewith all to continue that in the PL. The cost to buy your way into the top six must be mind blowing.
Its no longer a sport.

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[quote user="king canary"]Money has esentially ruined football as a competitive sport. It isn''t about the best coaching or managing or tactics or players it is about who can spend the most.

Fans were so willing to accept the idea that football clubs are first and foremost a business without thinking about the fact that businesses exist to make money. So now we have a situation where for 99% of clubs finishing 17th in the Premier League (or 4th for some bigger teams) is more important than winning trophies, where finishing in a European place is considered an inconvenience for many as it gets in the way of that all important league placing next season.

I''ve found myself gravitating more and more towards American sports (which have their flaws) simply because money isn''t everything in those competitions. My NFL team won the Superbowl last year, not because they spent more but because they coached, drafted and built better than the 31 other teams.[/quote]
That''s quite interesting, because in that case you should be delighted at what Norwich are trying to do - building a team from a sporting ethic that can compete without spending a huge fortune in players.  It is going to be fascinating to see if we can achieve something lasting that would be seen as bucking the trend against the big money clubs.  I''m not talking just about the PL either because so many more clubs in the championship have much more than us - imo Norwich are ahead of the game now and our reputation will grow that we are an outfit based on great sporting culture and young footballers will look on us as a great place to develop their careers.
On topic, relegation has taught us that just throwing money at players is not the long term answer.  It may have been a hard lesson to learn, but the resultant set up - one that is progressive, self sustaining and competitve - is something we should all hopefully be proud of as the club develops over the next few seasons. 

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Very interesting and somewhat sobering post... more so when you can add Bradley Johnson and Lewis grabban which I think is another £15m.

Too be fair to the club they have made a good profit on nearly all those listed but as we all know it''s where we have reinvested that''s the issue.

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King , My NFL team (Buffalo Bills) are slowly but surely building towards being a threat after long years of mediocrity. The system in NFL allows them to do so. My friends in upper state New York believe they will become a force after Tom Brady retires...

They got to the playoffs last year , just by good coaching. All the pundits had written them off and they predicted an 2-14 season.

It''s just fun to anticipate, as nobody knows how the season will pan out! Even the specialists agree on that!

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[quote user="TCCANARY"]
None of those players should be described as ''bang average''. Only two failed to make an impact, one due to injury and the other was Hooper,
[/quote]

Thought Hooper was pretty decent to be honest. If we’d have played him more instead of persevering with RVW we just may have had a little more success imo.

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@Robfleck

Yep - the league system, salary cap and draft system allows for long term strategy and build and lets teams dream. The Eagles hadn''t won a Superbowl before but you know in the NFL you''re only a couple of seasons away from it.

I do think the Bills will be regressing a bit this season though- o-line and receiving core look weak.

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Biggest impact for NCFC and relegation from the PL?

''Yellows'' now only open on match days and on very special occasions.....I''m inconsolable.......

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OK LDC , I get your point... but do you have the patience , ie can you sit out another few seasons of status quo or even decline?

We don''t have the money and football is ruled by money...I can''t see that changing soon.

As a supporter you want your team to win and get promotion. Don''t tell me otherwise... I just can''t see NCFC really challenging in the near future (maybe in the longer run) at the moment , hope I''m wrong...

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Agree King, Bills have a lot of work to do (especially WR and O-line) . But they got some very good signings in the draft and they know they will be progressing in the next few years. Maybe not this season (I agree with you)

The rules are the same for each team ! This might be the year for the Chargers or Rams

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@LDC

The problem is in the NFL you can do it because the system allows you to. If you sign a player to a 5 year deal then that player is with you for 5 years unless the team decides to trade or cut him.

What is happening to us right now couldn''t happen in the NFL as teams can''t use financial muscle to buy a player from another team. There is also no promotion/relegation so a couple of years of bad form while you let players develop won''t ruin a club.

What our owners are doing is essentially trying to deny the reality of how football operates these days and I don''t see it being a success.

Throwing money at things doesn''t guarantee success but it helps, especially if the strategy is sound.

For instance our transfer strategy in the relegation year under Hughton was sound- we signed generally young players with resale value so even if they didn''t work out we could move them on and not have to pay them all. We made profits on Fer, Redmond and Olsson, while getting a decent chunk of our money back on Hooper.

The issue with the January window under Neil is not that we spent money, it is that we threw that strategy out. Naismith and Jarvis were always highly unlikely to provide any resale value and have proven hugely difficult to shift. Klose and Pinto have remained and I doubt we''d make much profit on them. Maddison has saved that window to a certain extent but it has still been a long term disaster for the club.

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I disagree that football has been ruined by money. I don''t see the drastic change others are seeing.
We''re still seeing teams that come down for the prem not going straight back up and new clubs going up. We''ve had several years in the prem despite having no money. Other teams went close last season. Cardiff didn''t spend a serious amount - they''re now in the prem. 
I agree that the proportions have changed - the management and tactics now hold an overall lower value to the overall performance of a team but money has always been a factor. It always will be. I''m not sure any bubble is going to burst any time soon, Amazon have paid circa £100 million for some rights to Prem Games, they won''t be the last online streaming service to start bidding for rights either.

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Well Hogesar, I don''t know how old you are, but did you watch and follow football in the eighties?

European football was so much more interesting... Clubs from very different countries could compete with English, Spanish and German clubs...

Even a Belgian club won a Cup winners cup etc...

This is NOT possible anymore...

The french league has been sold to Qatar (no other club than PSG will win the french league in the years to come) . Same in England, after the Leicester victory , the rich clubs have done everything they can to get more imperious. They were shocked by the LCFC victory...it won''t happen again in the next few decades imo

Just have a look at the final tables of the largest competitions in Europe... Money has changed the game, it bloody well has

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Don''t think you quite got the point I was making Hoegsar

Yes clubs are going up and down but there is a glass ceiling in place for teams without the huge sums available to those near the top. Look at Southampton for instance- in a less money dominated game they could have been regular title challengers if they could have held onto players. Instead every season they have to deal with the richer clubs poaching all their best players, robbing them of the chance to build and develop their best youth prospects and get the reward that should come from that sort of management and strategy. Great for business, not fantastic for sporting competition.

Money has destroyed any sense of a level playing field in football.

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It''s always been the case.

My first experience of City losing their best to one of the bigger boys came before I even set foot in Carrow Road for the first time.

It concerns a tricky little Irishman named Jimmy Hill (not the ''chin,'') whose skill and goals helped Norwich climb out of the 3rd. Division in 1960.

He was my old boy''s favourite player by a mile, so imagine his anger when Hill was sold to Everton for £25, 000 a couple of years or so later.

What really rubbed salt in the wounds was that the player was bought as a reserve, more or less, and hardly played for the Everton first team.

Us denied our finest so that he could languish in the reserves of a bigger club. No level playing field there.

From the sound of it young Maddison had many similar playing characteristics to Jimmy Hill.

For £25k read £25m. That''s the only change in the sixty years that have passed, nothing else.

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“progressive, self sustaining and competitive”

We finished 14th last season and have just sold one of our top goalscorers, and will probably sell our best player too.

I’m predicting a long stretch in the Championship but would be delighted to be proven wrong.

I’d rather be a boring mid table Premier League side or one fighting relegation each year, rather than a mid table champ side, but that’s just me.

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[quote user="ROBFLECK"]Well Hogesar, I don''t know how old you are, but did you watch and follow football in the eighties?

European football was so much more interesting... Clubs from very different countries could compete with English, Spanish and German clubs...

Even a Belgian club won a Cup winners cup etc...

This is NOT possible anymore...

The french league has been sold to Qatar (no other club than PSG will win the french league in the years to come) . Same in England, after the Leicester victory , the rich clubs have done everything they can to get more imperious. They were shocked by the LCFC victory...it won''t happen again in the next few decades imo

Just have a look at the final tables of the largest competitions in Europe... Money has changed the game, it bloody well has[/quote]
Born in 92. So no.

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Money has always been a a factor but the gaps between the haves and have nots is growing at a faster and faster rate, prices are inflating much quicker than club income is and there is a pretty strong correlation between wage spend and league position.

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Money has always probably the major factor in footballing success. The difference is that the money used to be economically based. It was dependent on the economy of the area. Now it is finance-based, dependent on the size of the wallet of the owner.

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It was no fun watching Liverpool dominate between 1975 and 1990, both because they were boring to watch as well as almost always winning the league.

Champions 1974-75 to 1989-90 - Derby, Liverpool, Liverpool, Forest, Liverpool, Liverpool, Villa, Liverpool, Liverpool, Liverpool, Everton, Liverpool, Everton, Liverpool, Arsenal, Liverpool.

It seemed like a breath of fresh air when Man Utd won the first Premier League; (except that we had a chance to win it ourselves) but there we went again.

Champions 1992-93 to 2002 - 2003: Man U, Man U, Blackburn, Man U, Man U, Arsenal, Man U, Man U, Man U, Arsenal, Man U.

In fact the greatest variability in league winners has been since 2003, when the money in the PL increased the most. I''m sure the PL management will say that the money increase has therefore been good for the game, but I know that many will disagree with that.

Champions 2003-04 to 2017-18: Arsenal, Chelsea, Chelsea, Man U, Man U, Man U, Chelsea, Man U, Man C, Man U, Man C, Chelsea, Leicester, Chelsea, Man C.

So for at least 40 years money almost always won out, either from size of your stadium, rich owner or TV appearance money, with the best players getting bought up. And the above ignores the lower leagues where "financial cheating" like at Wolves or QPR may rocket you to promotion. I think it''s why many of us care more about player effort and our playing style than the absolute results, because you know the latter has been pre-determined to a large extent.

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