Leitner signs permanently

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

Augsburg are a bit of a long ball team. They pump balls long and high up to Finnbogason and Gregoritsch who are both 6ft plus. Their midfield two are more combative ball winners than Leitner style play makers.

It is unclear why they even signed him, but as a last minute signing on 31st Jan is suggests he might have been a bit of a panic buy. Any signing in the winter window is considered a bit of a panic buy January, especially one made late.

Hopefully a new start with a manger who knows him and Leitner trusts will release all that potential he had in his Dortmund days.

He is more the player who will pass to the player who passes to the goal scorer. The pre-assist if you like. He also has the passing ability to dictact the tempo of a game from deep and keep the ball moving to open up opposition defences. Personally I really, really like him as a player - he is a class above most midfielders in the Championship and could easily be on the level of someone like Tom Cairney next season.

[komakino 272]

[quote user="yellowrider120"]Forgive me for not joining all the hype about this guy but I just don''t see what makes him such a ''quality'' player. Instead I tend to agree with those (DCB for example) who describe Leitner as ''fancy flicks with no end product''.

Admittedly it''s difficult to make a serious impact on loan for the second half of a season when you miss a number of matches with injury. That said my own views on this chap are as follows:-

1. First touch is sublime, kills the ball dead

2. Unruffled when on the ball and never looks to ''just hoof it''

On the positive side that''s about it I''m afraid. Looking at the more ''negative points'':-

1. Typical Farke player i.e. ''passing for the sake of passing''. In Farke world a game would be won on a ''PR'' system i.e. where every vote (in this case ''pass'') counts. Pity he doesn''t seem to realise that it''s goals that win football matches!

2. Lack of a competitive / physical edge. Leitner is simply not equipped for the unrelenting and combative nature of a Championship season. Did any of you go to that crazy match at Hull?? Leitner was a complete passenger as Hull swept runners forward from midfield early on. First time I noticed he was on the field was when he pulled up injured.

3. Where is the evidence that somehow he will step up and

be the new Maddison or Wes? His goal scoring record (that''s a joke by the way!) is ''measly'' if career stats on Wikipedia are the be believed. I hope he proves me wrong but this signing does little to inspire confidence that Farke has really understood English football and the Championship in particular.[/quote]

I agree with what you''ve said here Yellow.

He does fit into Farke''s mantra of ''Technically good, but ineffective'', plus his goalscoring record is diabolical.

A 4 year deal seems odd, so maybe the club have got him on the very cheap and hope to sell on if he performs.

[hogesar 9,611]

[quote user="komakino"][quote user="yellowrider120"]Forgive me for not joining all the hype about this guy but I just don''t see what makes him such a ''quality'' player. Instead I tend to agree with those (DCB for example) who describe Leitner as ''fancy flicks with no end product''.

Admittedly it''s difficult to make a serious impact on loan for the second half of a season when you miss a number of matches with injury. That said my own views on this chap are as follows:-

1. First touch is sublime, kills the ball dead

2. Unruffled when on the ball and never looks to ''just hoof it''

On the positive side that''s about it I''m afraid. Looking at the more ''negative points'':-

1. Typical Farke player i.e. ''passing for the sake of passing''. In Farke world a game would be won on a ''PR'' system i.e. where every vote (in this case ''pass'') counts. Pity he doesn''t seem to realise that it''s goals that win football matches!

2. Lack of a competitive / physical edge. Leitner is simply not equipped for the unrelenting and combative nature of a Championship season. Did any of you go to that crazy match at Hull?? Leitner was a complete passenger as Hull swept runners forward from midfield early on. First time I noticed he was on the field was when he pulled up injured.

3. Where is the evidence that somehow he will step up and

be the new Maddison or Wes? His goal scoring record (that''s a joke by the way!) is ''measly'' if career stats on Wikipedia are the be believed. I hope he proves me wrong but this signing does little to inspire confidence that Farke has really understood English football and the Championship in particular.[/quote]

I agree with what you''ve said here Yellow.

He does fit into Farke''s mantra of ''Technically good, but ineffective'', plus his goalscoring record is diabolical.

A 4 year deal seems odd, so maybe the club have got him on the very cheap and hope to sell on if he performs.[/quote]

You mean, you of all people, agree with one of only about two negative posts on this thread? I don''t believe it. Not for a minute.

[ROBFLECK 132]

Look, most of us seem to like him as a player and this is a good deal imo .

But I think the positions in midfield seem to have been filled now...

We need strikers...

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

Everyone knows Norwich need strikers, you won’t find anyone who disagrees.

Deals are done in the order they become doable, not in the order of priority. Norwich may want/need to move Nelson on before bringing in their main striker target. 7 weeks of the window left, still time to bring in more players. This is just the beginning.

[komakino 272]

[quote user="hogesar"][quote user="komakino"][quote user="yellowrider120"]Forgive me for not joining all the hype about this guy but I just don''t see what makes him such a ''quality'' player. Instead I tend to agree with those (DCB for example) who describe Leitner as ''fancy flicks with no end product''.

Admittedly it''s difficult to make a serious impact on loan for the second half of a season when you miss a number of matches with injury. That said my own views on this chap are as follows:-

1. First touch is sublime, kills the ball dead

2. Unruffled when on the ball and never looks to ''just hoof it''

On the positive side that''s about it I''m afraid. Looking at the more ''negative points'':-

1. Typical Farke player i.e. ''passing for the sake of passing''. In Farke world a game would be won on a ''PR'' system i.e. where every vote (in this case ''pass'') counts. Pity he doesn''t seem to realise that it''s goals that win football matches!

2. Lack of a competitive / physical edge. Leitner is simply not equipped for the unrelenting and combative nature of a Championship season. Did any of you go to that crazy match at Hull?? Leitner was a complete passenger as Hull swept runners forward from midfield early on. First time I noticed he was on the field was when he pulled up injured.

3. Where is the evidence that somehow he will step up and

be the new Maddison or Wes? His goal scoring record (that''s a joke by the way!) is ''measly'' if career stats on Wikipedia are the be believed. I hope he proves me wrong but this signing does little to inspire confidence that Farke has really understood English football and the Championship in particular.[/quote]

I agree with what you''ve said here Yellow.

He does fit into Farke''s mantra of ''Technically good, but ineffective'', plus his goalscoring record is diabolical.

A 4 year deal seems odd, so maybe the club have got him on the very cheap and hope to sell on if he performs.[/quote]

You mean, you of all people, agree with one of only about two negative posts on this thread? I don''t believe it. Not for a minute.

[/quote]

Not negative, just being realistic. Just because somebody isn''t towing the corporate line, doesn''t necessarily mean they are negative. Yellows initial post was very good and hard to argue against.

I remember at Martin O'' Neill''s press conference and he said Norwich City were a team that took ''One pass too many'' and he aimed to iron that out, which he did. The football wasn''t as pretty, but it was effective - at least until he left.

The point of trying to make here is that Leitner just fits in Farke''s philosophy, but that isn''t going to get us anywhere near where we want to be. I''ll get excited when there is something to get excited about, but I fear that that is unlikely to happen until either Farke is replaced or changes his style of football because to have the type of players to succeed in what he is trying to achieve is financially impossible not just for NCFC, but for the vast majority of clubs full stop. He must adapt or been shown the door because another rehash of 17/18 is not acceptable.

[nutty nigel 7,507]

Ahhhbhh

Realistic.

Can''t argue with that,........

[Woodman 92]

A lot of contracts (including Leitner''s loan to us) run up to June 30th, so next week should trigger a lot more activity - especially if we''re looking at out of contract players.

I''m sure loads of work is going on behind the scenes.

[Indy_Bones 441]

[quote user="komakino"]The point of trying to make here is that Leitner just fits in Farke''s philosophy, but that isn''t going to get us anywhere near where we want to be.[/quote]

Whilst there were a handful of games where we just got caught out by more physical sides (e.g. Millwall), our key issue was simply not putting the ball in the net enough rather than the philosophy being wrong, because let''s face it, Fulham played a very similar style this season focusing on passing and possession and they did very well out of it.

We''ve also clearly seen that it wasn''t because we didn''t have people who could pass a good ball, Maddison, Vrancic and Leitner were all excellent passers, yet when it got to the final man, be it Nelson, Srbeny, Murphy or whoever, they were frequently far too wasteful and either fired off highly speculative shots from long range, put it straight at the keeper or simply put it wide, that''s not the fault of Farke''s system and if we''d had more clinical finishing, it''s perfectly reasonable to suggest we''d have at least been challenging for a play-off spot.

This is why signing a new striker (or two) who CAN provide that consistency is absolutely vital, we all know this and we''re all waiting to see who comes in (shame we couldn''t get the Ducksch deal), but when we had the opportunity to bring in a quality player like Leitner at a very good price, we''d have been crazy not to, and it doesn''t stop us getting the striker either, simply that it takes longer to do so and this is something that myself and numerous others like Bethnal all agree on.

[Fuzzar 1,702]

I wonder whether our new playing style might suit RvW, Indy?

Good to see you back, btw...

[PurpleCanary 5,553]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"]

[quote user="komakino"]The point of trying to make here is that Leitner just fits in Farke''s philosophy, but that isn''t going to get us anywhere near where we want to be.[/quote]

Whilst there were a handful of games where we just got caught out by more physical sides (e.g. Millwall), our key issue was simply not putting the ball in the net enough rather than the philosophy being wrong, because let''s face it, Fulham played a very similar style this season focusing on passing and possession and they did very well out of it.

We''ve also clearly seen that it wasn''t because we didn''t have people who could pass a good ball, Maddison, Vrancic and Leitner were all excellent passers, yet when it got to the final man, be it Nelson, Srbeny, Murphy or whoever, they were frequently far too wasteful and either fired off highly speculative shots from long range, put it straight at the keeper or simply put it wide, that''s not the fault of Farke''s system and if we''d had more clinical finishing, it''s perfectly reasonable to suggest we''d have at least been challenging for a play-off spot.

This is why signing a new striker (or two) who CAN provide that consistency is absolutely vital, we all know this and we''re all waiting to see who comes in (shame we couldn''t get the Ducksch deal), but when we had the opportunity to bring in a quality player like Leitner at a very good price, we''d have been crazy not to, and it doesn''t stop us getting the striker either, simply that it takes longer to do so and this is something that myself and numerous others like Bethnal all agree on.

[/quote]

That we have got McLean, Trybull, Buendia and Leitner (plus Tettey and Godfrey), all of whom I imagine are integral to how Farke wants us to play, so cheaply should help us get the striker or strikers that will also be integral to his plan.

[Indy_Bones 441]

[quote user="Fuzzar"]I wonder whether our new playing style might suit RvW, Indy?

Good to see you back, btw...[/quote]I did kind of wonder how long it would take before someone mentioned RvW on my return [:D]

The answer is probably yes, for all the reasons that we''ve done to death for the past few years over lack of service etc.

I did read an interesting article from the Mail about RvW a few months ago and I''ve managed to find it again:

[url]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5376723/Ricky-van-Wolfswinkel-reborn-Basle.html[/url]

I find these paragraphs of greatest interest:

"I knew Norwich had played defensively the

previous season, so I spoke to Chris Hughton before I signed and said

it wouldn''t suit me."

"He convinced me

he wanted to bring in new players who played football. They signed Gary

Hooper, Nathan Redmond, myself and at the start they did try to change."

"But there was a moment, around November

or December, when Chris called me into the office and said: "It''s not

working out. We need points, so we are going to play a little more

direct." Chris is a gentleman. He was honest, so I had to accept it. We

played everything to the bigger body, Johan Elmander."

"Every

player wants the ball, As a striker, you need the service if you want

to score goals. It got hard for me. There were some games where I got

very few touches. If I''d missed a hundred chances, I''d feel worse about

it. But in the end there were no chances."

But enough about RvW (I''m sure most posters are more than tired of hearing it), what are your views on Leitner signing?

[Fuzzar 1,702]

Very pleased with the Leitner signing.

And I was half-joking re RvW in that our current way of playing through the thirds might suit a striker like him. But, not actually him!

[curious yellow 184]

I think that RVW would have benefited from a system where someone passed to him.

We must get more players in the box or we are continually going to have to try from distance and the lone striker will always struggle, no matter how good he is.

[komakino 272]

[quote user="curious yellow"]I think that RVW would have benefited from a system where someone passed to him.

We must get more players in the box or we are continually going to have to try from distance and the lone striker will always struggle, no matter how good he is.[/quote]

Fair point.

Farke''s system almost negates the use of a striker, which in turn places more pressure for goals from the other areas of the team which is not healthy or sustainable.

Therefore it is not going to be easy to attract a decent striker to the club, even when a tent, pitch forks and a sleeping bag are thrown in.

[ROBFLECK 132]

Having seen him play rather often while I was in Holland for work ...I think RvW would''ve done very well in another system , with balls played to his feet...

But hey, hoping the Leitner signing is only the beginning! Here''s hoping fo a good window...