Olive Branch

[king canary 7,578]

Nelsons career stats suggests if you someone could get him fit and focused for the entire season he''d be a 15+ goals a season guy. However nobody seems to have managed that with him yet. I think he''s good as an option in the squad but not as an undisputed number one striker.

I do believe though that if a player is as obviously disillusioned and out of form as Nelson has been then the manager has to take some of the blame.

[TIL 1010 4,719]

Looks like you may well be accused of holding the stick today kc by using Nelson to attack the regime. [:P][;)][:D]

[Woodman 92]

As I just posted on the Germany thread, I saw on social media that he''d posted about Germany''s possession stats v South Korea versus the result. If he''s starting this pre-season with that same attitude, he''s not helping himself.

I like players to have confidence, attitude and belief in themselves, but he has to back it up with performances and goals - which he didn''t do enough of last season.

He might blame it on the style that Farke wants to play, but he needs to adapt/adopt if he''s going to be our first choice striker. Right now, I agree that he''s the ''best'' striker we currently have at the club - and that''s quite a worry!

[Indy_Bones 441]

[quote user="king canary"]I do believe though that if a player is as obviously disillusioned and out of form as Nelson has been then the manager has to take some of the blame.[/quote]So why did players like Maddison, Reed and a number of others take the time to give real credit to Farke then King?

I mean, if this was the first time in his career that Oliveira had been seen to have issues you''d certainly have something more justify the argument, but he''s had problems at virtually every club he''s been at, has never consistently performed anywhere or seemed able to settle and cement his place, and has acted in very unprofessional and petulant ways since he joined us, so why should the finger be pointed at Farke???

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

Olivieria hasn’t had issues at most of the clubs he has been at, but as he has mostly been on loan it is hard to compare. I do think the fact he has bounced from club to club on temporary basis has meant he has struggled to settle a little.

Farke has taken a very German approach of publicy talking about off the pithx/training ground issues - he did the same to Murphy and Watkins. Some players who aren’t use to this kind of openness really hate it and find it hard to deal with and believe it should stay behind closed doors.

Whether it is the right approach or not is down to personal preference, some players like it and some don’t. You could argue that Farke should have taken a personalised approach to Nelson but then Josh and Marley would have every right to feel aggrieved they were publicly admonished when Nelson wasn’t.

I do feel that Farke has struggled with Nelson, but he does seem a particularly difficult character. But whether he has handled the matter well or poorly is pretty impossible to judge as ultimately we have no idea what is going on behind the scenes.

[hogesar 9,616]

As per Woodman''s post on the Germany thread:

[quote user="Woodman"]On the possession v result debate, I see Oliveira posted something about that on his social media following the result. A subtle dig after only one day back at training!?[/quote]

He''s practically like dealing with a 12 year old.

[Rogue Baboon 0]

I see it like this.

We probably want to move Oliveira on.

Oliveira probably wants to move on.

We cant afford to sell Oliveira until we get a replacement in.

We cant afford to sign a replacement until we sell Oliveria.

There isn''t much serious interest in Oliveria.

Some we are in some weird kind of limbo at the minute

[king canary 7,578]

"I do feel that Farke has struggled with Nelson, but he does seem a particularly difficult character. But whether he has handled the matter well or poorly is pretty impossible to judge as ultimately we have no idea what is going on behind the scenes."

@Bethnal

I think that is fair- we just don''t know. However on here the decided narrative has been it is all Nelson''s fault without stopping to think whether Farke''s man management skills may have played a part.

[Indy_Bones 441]

[quote user="king canary"]However on here the decided narrative has been it is all Nelson''s fault without stopping to think whether Farke''s man management skills may have played a part.[/quote]A fair point again King, but we''ve seen or heard little to no evidence that Farke''s man management skills are lacking, he''s received strong praise from a number of players openly, and he certainly wasn''t the one acting like a complete tool on the opening day of the season like Nelson did either.

I''m sure that only the players and coaching staff will have a relatively clear view on this, but certainly on the balance of evidence, information and what we''ve seen about both personalities so far, I don''t think it''s unfair to suggest that the onus is far more likely to be on Nelson''s attitude and behaviour than it is Farke''s, even if the absolute facts are beyond us.

[hogesar 9,616]

[quote user="king canary"]"I do feel that Farke has struggled with Nelson, but he does seem a particularly difficult character. But whether he has handled the matter well or poorly is pretty impossible to judge as ultimately we have no idea what is going on behind the scenes."

@Bethnal

I think that is fair- we just don''t know. However on here the decided narrative has been it is all Nelson''s fault without stopping to think whether Farke''s man management skills may have played a part.[/quote]

I think just from the obvious characters of the two and the first-game situation, it doesn''t take a psychologist to see which one is likely to have the antagonising character.

[king canary 7,578]

Were you in preseason training Hogesar?

Because if not you just don''t know.

[Woodman 92]

Some players need an arm around them to encourage them (& love having their ego massaged), others need straight talking.

Carrot & stick and all that...

[Indy_Bones 441]

I''m going to stick with the duck test logic tbh, and on that basis Nelson is the issue not Farke [:)]

[king canary 7,578]

Well the fact he''s felt the need to call three different players out publicly suggests maybe his style doesn''t work for everyone.

I''m not saying he''s an awful man manager but getting players on board and motivated is part of the managers job so when a player falls off a cliff like Nelson I''d suggest some of that is down to the manager.