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Tippy Tappy football

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[quote user="Herman"]"Park the bus" football is now in. Someone give Hughton a call.
[/quote]
припарковать автобусorpriparkovat'' avtobus

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Real Madrid have won the Champions League for the last three seasons playing different tactics. Tippy Tappy is not one however.

Things change and now a back three is fashionable but Spain persisted with a back four and two holding midfield players.

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Parking the KV-2 is fine for the odd game (we did it at quite a few away games last year) but we all know from experience how tiring it gets week after week.
I think the best team at the World Cup so far have been Uruguay. Very organised defensively, aggressively going after the ball high up the pitch (early on at least), nothing too flash but still have the cutting edge up top. Granted it probably helps that they are spearheaded by Cavani and Suarez.

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It''s like everything else, a system will work well if you get all the aspects right.  My understanding of Farke''s system is that it is not just tippy tappy, although I grant you that at times last season it looked like that, but based on getting posession and then making incisive passes through to the front players who have to be good enough to put the ball in the net.  It is pretty much what Hughton tried to do but we couldn''t do it well enough.  But as last season progressed it seemed as if the play became more urgent and incisive and we created more chances, so although there were still rogue results there was development.
For me a good technical footballing side is a joy to watch, especally if they are effective up front and of course my hope is that the players we have or will have next season will be up to that task.

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Possession football is nothing without a handful of direct opportunities - but they require energy and quality across the pitch. Age catches up with us all.

PS. Where are the anagrams tonight?

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I do love the way the Uruguay players scream when they get tackled for extra affect

never heard or seen anything like it

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[quote user="KeiranShikari"]Parking the KV-2 is fine for the odd game[/quote]World of Tanks player by any chance?

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Worked very well for Pep at Man City. They passed the ball 5,000 times more than the closest team. They had 66% possession and made the least long passes in the league.

No one system is inherently better than another, it is about the application of the system that makes it work or not.

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Webber was asked about this is a Q&A at the AGM of the Canaries Trust in March:Q: Why is the play so boring?A: DF is committed to a style of “pass

and run” but it hasn’t fully gelled because of the lack of a consistent

pacey striker. However, it is acknowledged that the football has, at

times this season, been “ hard watch” and fans were thanked for their

patience. The recruitment team know what’s required and will be doing

everything possible to ensure that Farke has what he needs next season. If fans require “hoof-ball” then he [Webber] and DF are “out of here”.

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If fans require “hoof-ball” then he [Webber] and DF are “out of here”.

Do you think that indicates he is a bit tetchy about being criticised?

I doubt anyone wants hoofball. But I doubt anyone wants a repeat of last season either.

Is our play scripted or are the players free to express themselves or play it as they see it at the time?

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Sounds like OIiveira could be ''out of here'' based on that then; he''s posted again about possession football not winning a game at the World Cup (Spain/Russia).

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And at the other extreme, Denmark tried to avoid tippy tappy despite Croatia offering them every opportunity to pursue by parking the bus, but the Danish front men were so agricultural they missed chances galore.

Again, yesterdays matches highlighted to me at least, that very good front men are at a premium. God help England if Kane gets injured, which is why I think it is between Uruguay and Belgium, both teams having more than one high quality striker to call upon.

It also underlines why finding a quality striker who doesn''t break our FFP structure really is for Webber & Farke, their biggest challenge and one they haven''t solved yet - so todays pink''un story is good news that they are still looking.

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I think it gets over exagerated how bad Norwich’s playing style was last season. Norwich were never like Spain at any point because they had players constantly taking pot shots from outside the box.

If anything Norwich lacked patience with the ball last season and wasted possession before they opened a clear cut chance.

Possession based football is a difficult style to master, requires good understanding between players and confidence. But get it right and it can be highly effective. All teams though do require a plan B, as a predictable playing style is easier for opposing teams to counter. The addition of players like Marshall and Buendia should hopefully add a bit more variation in Norwich’s game and Murphy and probably Nelson leaving should mean less speculative shots from 30 yards plus.

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Football , like anything else, goes in fashions, and this is best illustrated by the FA coaching manuals.

When I did my badges, in the early 2000''s, the legacy of Charles Hughes and Graham Taylor was fading. You did still have (and do still have ) coaches working to this system, but the successes of Arsenal and Barca were beginning to lead to lots of delegations from the FA watching the possession based, high pressing systems were leading to a sea change in coaching.

Smaller boxes, moving the ball quicker , being comfortable in possession in any position were all part of the FA coaching manual.

Of course all systems are reliant on the players, and the application. Ajax played "total football" for years. Making the pitch big in possession and narrow out of, is a fundamental attribute to any system. Wimbledon were terrific exponents of it, as were Spain when they won the World Cup.

My issue with Farke was the progress made last season. We conceded goals against at home Sunderland from a long pass from the GK when our CB''s were too far apart. And against Sheffield Wednesday we looked very similar.

Keeping possession by playing in two thirds of the field, against an away team that are happy to let you play in front and down the side in neutral areas , wont win you games, unless a player like Murphy or Maddison score from shots from 25 yards plus to change the dynamic of the game. The other aspect that even Spain used was the restart - corners etc - where we look poor.

The system we play is all about the players executing it. Spain got knocked out because their players didn''t apply the system as they have in the past. The team that won the World Cup and the Euros, would have beaten Russia yesterday - the high press, off the ball movement is all massively affected by fatigue, and losing an exponent like Iniesta to age played a huge part.

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Chicken and egg bethnal. My opinion was those shots came about because we weren''t creating any clear cut chances, not that we lacked patience.

The issue for me was we often lacked the ability to change the tempo of our play to actually move defenders about. Instead when we did get someone dragged out of position we''d play another 3 passes and let them get back.

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As with any approach to football there are examples of good and bad application, whether it is tippy tappy, hoof ball, wingers, defensive iron curtain or keegans gung ho style.

It wont take much in the way of improved finishing to help us and if the results are wins no one really cares about the style anyway. Neil entertained us with so many goals esp at home before getting sacked i seem to recall.

For every spain there is peps man citeh.

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The issue for me was we often lacked the ability to change the tempo of our play to actually move defenders about. Instead when we did get someone dragged out of position we''d play another 3 passes and let them get back

And that is when we ended up with Oliveira, Murphy and Maddison trying long range efforts.

Spain showed last night that if you don''t play with a tempo, and don''t even cross into the box, you will find it pretty hard to get past a packed penalty area.

I find it difficult to accept Webber''s assertion that the lack of a mobile striker was one of the reasons.

No-one was more mobile than Cameron and he looked awful playing for us for much of the season.

And if we don''t have the right personnel to play close possession football then why play it?

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[quote user="king canary"]Chicken and egg bethnal. My opinion was those shots came about because we weren''t creating any clear cut chances, not that we lacked patience.

The issue for me was we often lacked the ability to change the tempo of our play to actually move defenders about. Instead when we did get someone dragged out of position we''d play another 3 passes and let them get back.[/quote]
Yet Oliveira had more shots per game than any other striker in the league. Which suggests Bethnal is correct in that it was more a trait of the player than the playing style.

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It is still a matter of patience. If a opportunity hasn’t been created for a couple of minutes it doesn’t mean Murphy or Olivieria can just pull the trigger from a stupid position. Norwich took a shot on average every 6 mins, considering they had just over 50% possession on average they waited 3 mins with the ball to take a shot.

That isn’t just frustration - that is rank poor decision making in many cases.

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[quote user="GPs Beard"]Spain got knocked out because their players didn''t apply the system as they have in the past. The team that won the World Cup and the Euros, would have beaten Russia yesterday - the high press, off the ball movement is all massively affected by fatigue, and losing an exponent like Iniesta to age played a huge part.[/quote]
Looking back at their 2014 squad, they had Fernando Torres, David Villa and Diego Costa was third choice. In 2018, Diego Costa was last man standing. In 2014, they had David Silva, Juan Mata and Santi Carzola (though I think Mata had to pull out) in their squad. Add to that the natural aging of the likes of Iniesta, and losses of Xavi Alonso amongst others, with very little coming through to take their place.
I don''t think it''s the system, just that Spain had an abundance of top quality talent, and they''ve got from having incredible strength in depth, to aging players past their prime, and a lack of quality youngsters to replace them.

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[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]It is still a matter of patience. If a opportunity hasn’t been created for a couple of minutes it doesn’t mean Murphy or Olivieria can just pull the trigger from a stupid position. Norwich took a shot on average every 6 mins, considering they had just over 50% possession on average they waited 3 mins with the ball to take a shot.

That isn’t just frustration - that is rank poor decision making in many cases.[/quote]
I know I didn''t go to many matches last season, but watching online on most of them, it seemed obvious that the possession we maintained was let down on so many occasions by simple bad choices of the two front players.  It was at times like watching schoolboy football, just rank poor play - pot shots from promising positions that went wildly off target, running with the ball when a pass was the better option and so on.  That Murphy (Villa H) and Oliveira (Wolves A) scored a wonder goal each doesn''t excuse that. 
I would have liked to see Murphy and Oliveira making more runs without the ball, thus getting into positions that would give opportunities for passes over the top - we had possession no problem, but the outlets were either too deep or not making the kind of movements needed.  Little pressure was created as a result and moves either broke down cheaply or wastefully with a off target pot shot.

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Yeah I''m not sure I buy this idea that the system would have worked of Murphy/Nelson didn''t take pot shots. I watched more than enough slow, sideways passing that is actually piss easy to defend against most of the time to know it wasn''t going anywhere.

We were so easy to work out both at the start and the finish of the season. Sit deep, have some pace on the shoulder, long balls into the channels. Teams could happily watch us play it infront of them until someone coughed up the ball, hit it long and turn our defence in a way we so rarely did to the opposition.

More of that next season without the long range shooting ability of Maddison and we''ll go backwards not forwards.

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