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Haggerdoo

No hidden agenda behind Nelson Oliveira’s absence

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Probably because Martin is a model professional who has been an excellent servant and ambassador to the club, and we clearly have an idea of utilising him in another role in the near future.
As already pointed out, he''s been working on his coaching qualifications for a while, and those combined with his demeanour and level of respect from those around him would make a great addition to the club outside of simply being a player.

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Ray wrote: "To add gravitas to the above, I have heard that Mr Webber does not intend to sell Russ Martin, short term loan yes but sell no. I wonder why?"

Maybe somebody in authority and above Mr Webber, ordered him not to?..... 

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It would be stupid not to take advantage of having an ex player move into a coaching role within the club if those above think hes good enough and is getting his qualifications anyway.

Equally, its an expensive way to keep his services if we''re willing to pay player wages to a guy we only want to keep around for potential coaching.

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Martin''s only 32 isn''t he? thought he''d get another move before going into coaching. His reviews at rangers weren''t exactly positive last season, perhaps he doesn''t want to drop to the Scottish second division or below the Championship to get games.

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[quote user="KeiranShikari"]Martin''s only 32 isn''t he? thought he''d get another move before going into coaching. His reviews at rangers weren''t exactly positive last season, perhaps he doesn''t want to drop to the Scottish second division or below the Championship to get games.
[/quote]
We let Bassong go shortly before his 31st birthday and he hasn''t played since. I think these days unless you know the manager, either personally or having played for them before, it''s hard to move downwards. Arguably Russell Martin got the Rangers stint because of Graeme Murty.
Ian Butterworth was saying (during our league one time) that the average yearly salary in League One was 50k and in League Two was £25k. Whereas Russ is arguably still on 10k a week.
Adrian Forbes made an interesting comment that because pace was never part of Wes''s game, he was able to go on longer as the inevitable slowdown of getting older didn''t hit him as hard. Whereas Forbes relied heavily on his pace, and went from the Championship at 28/29 to being relegated out of the football league at 31.

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He has been told he can go on a free transfer and to find another club. Deal was in place at Rangers until the manager got sacked

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Got to say I''m lost at the need for Farke to put out such obvious bs. If Nelson had any place in his first team plans he''d be in Germany.

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[quote user="king canary"]Got to say I''m lost at the need for Farke to put out such obvious bs. If Nelson had any place in his first team plans he''d be in Germany.[/quote]

Absolutely! Why would you not bring him in to bond with the team if he was to feature. Doubt we will see him in a City shirt again..

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Why is this BS? The relevant information is all there. I doubt he could say anything more.

“I can’t do anything about speculation,” he said. “To be honest, we were speaking about this when we discussed this topic and we knew there would be rumours or speculation. That might not help us but we are convinced this is the right decision to introduce the new lads and we will not be forced to do something different by maybe opinions from outside the camp. This was the right decision for this moment for this group.

“Nelson is part of our group and we just decided not to have him with us. We want to build a togetherness in this group and bring them tightly together. 

“We have three games and the new lads need many, many minutes on the pitch. Jordan Rhodes is new and has not been involved so much at Sheffield Wednesday. So he needs a lot of minutes.

“Teemu Pukki, the same, to adapt to our style and even Dennis Srbeny, it feels like he has not played a lot for us since he came here.

“So there is no space right now and Nelson knows how we want to play and came late to pre-season. So let’s concentrate on these lads for the next weeks.”

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Do you Honestly believe that Nutty ?

We want to build a togetherness in this group and bring them tightly together.

so by the way we are leaving you at home Nelson that tells you everything in one sentence

why not play Nelson with the others to see how he gels with them

So there is no space right now and Nelson knows how we want to play = he did not show it last season

he will be out the door as soon as someone stumps up some cash

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Yep- if Nelson was any part of our plans he''d be there. He needs to train with the new midfielders, learn how they like to play, connect with them and become part of the squad.

By leaving him at home we''re very obviously saying he''s not in our plans and he can move on- so why lie?

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So if we can’t get rid of Nelson and Farke is unable to manage him, that’s another very expensive asset not being utilised.

Surely we can’t have him playing in the U23s as well?

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I don''t think he could be anymore up front about it. He''s given the facts.

The only alternative would be to not comment.

Reminds me a bit of Lambert with Wes and The Doc although I doubt it will play out in the same way.

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[quote user="Clint"]So if we can’t get rid of Nelson and Farke is unable to manage him, that’s another very expensive asset not being utilised.

Surely we can’t have him playing in the U23s as well?[/quote]

Yes he is difficult to manage and performed poorly last year but Farke has written him off - there''s a quality striker in there still who should be given a pre-season chance like the rest (btw he''s way better than Srebny will ever be).

Losing faith in Farke over this blinkered approach

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[quote user="king canary"]Yep- if Nelson was any part of our plans he''d be there. He needs to train with the new midfielders, learn how they like to play, connect with them and become part of the squad.

By leaving him at home we''re very obviously saying he''s not in our plans and he can move on- so why lie?[/quote]
???? Where has he lied?   He has given plenty of information about the situation as he always does.

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Yes, Lambert played it in a similar way with Wes and Doc. How thankful he must be he didnt sell Wes in the end!

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It is him saying ''he''s still part of our group.''

To be fair lie is too strong a word and I''d take that back- it is just obviously the case he''s not in our plans and there is no real need to pretend otherwise.

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What I am unclear on is the returned back to training late comment.

I might have missed it but why didn’t he start with everyone else?

IF it was a case of him just not bothering to turn up then I wouldn’t take him to Germany either as would clearly be a disruptive influence.

He has the capability to be a good player but there’s hardly a long queue of clubs wanting to buy him or he’d be gone by now.

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As I mentioned elsewhere, on goal scoring potential, he''s probably our first or second striker. The relationship between Farke and him seems irrecoverably broken, which is a shame and we have to hope that the replacements will deliver.

The question of whether anyone''s made an offer is valid, but by selling Murphy and Maddison, we''re in the position of being able to hold out for the best price for him. I can see him being shipped off to a Portuguese team for this season, just to get him away from Colney.

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Seems quite clear to me, Nelson is seen as disruptive and therefore in order to allow the new lads time to get to know the squad, they didn’t want a disruptive person on the tour.

Doesn’t mean he hasn’t got potential, doesn’t necessarily mean he’ll be off (although likely), just means that to allow the new boys time to settle in and enjoy it, Nelson was told to stay at home.

Would you want a disruptive personality in a group when you’re trying to integrate new people in to it?

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Fair point Rich, and there''s no way you can integrate new players into a squad with a player who has vocalised his opinion against the head coaches tactics on social media. I don''t personally think there''s a way back for him but what''s also clear from the window so far is we need a club to get desperate to be willing to take a punt on him. 

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Totally agree with Rich T. Exactly how I read it. Not prepared to let a disruptive individual disrupt the pre-season tour. Likely to be leaving, but the door''s not completely slammed shut in the unlikely event that Nelson winds his neck in.

Have to say, I think Farke (if indeed it is his call) has played this perfectly.

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I’m not yet convinced that he’s off, I’d have expected that to have happened by now so this kind of thing well and truly puts him in his place.

The lad is clearly talented, I think I read somewhere that he was on standby for their World Cup squad but I have always said that Nelson is a luxury player not suited to us. All to many times last season when he was the 1 up top he seemed to avoid the penalty area.

Suspect he’s already on at his agent to find a new club and that would be the best option for all parties.

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I would imagine he''s made his feelings about Farke and Farke''s system perfectly clear, and wants a move.

However, I''m also not sure that anyone will actually come in for him, as I imagine he is on a reasonable salary and the club will want a fee for him. I imagine if Nelson was to apologise and take responsibility the club/Farke would have no real choice but to re-integrate him and move on.

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If he is a disruptive force then I cannot see how having him remain at the club would be of any use.
"Hello lads, meet the player who we normally keep in the West Wing ".
If the plan is that he moves on then it would be pointless him being with the squad in Germany. I expect him to move on as Pukki and Rhodes now appear to make his job here redundant. Throw in Onel and Beunos Aires and I think we have added enough in the way of ''strikers''.
Whether he leaves on a transfer or loan we shall have to see, but I think any saving in wages could be used better elsewhere.

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My take is, that if he is allowed back into the first team, it will be on the basis that he’s agreed to play by Farke’s rules. If not, he’s already been shown that he’ll be excluded.

I think it’s strong leadership to have left him out and not let him spoil the team spirit during the pre-season tour. Nelson’s been shown who the boss is and that if steps out of line, he’ll be training on his own.

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[quote user="rock bus"]What I am unclear on is the returned back to training late comment.

I might have missed it but why didn’t he start with everyone else?

IF it was a case of him just not bothering to turn up then I wouldn’t take him to Germany either as would clearly be a disruptive influence.

He has the capability to be a good player but there’s hardly a long queue of clubs wanting to buy him or he’d be gone by now.[/quote]

apparently back late due to being listed as ''stand-by'' for Portugal in case of tournament-length injuries to the squad they took to Russia.

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