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Herb

Sven must go!

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Enough is enough. Leaving Greeno out of the squad, taking off Wright-Phillips (our best player on the day) and generally being boring and negative.
Sven has lost it. hes done a job for us over the years, but we''ve rarely shone brightly and his time has come.
The England squad has more talent at its disposal than for ages and I don''t think Svens the man to mould it into a team that can challenge for the world cup.

Forget formations, tactics or anything else. Before you can make any of that count you''ve got to fire the players up, get the passion flowing, have them willing to go through hell for the honour of pulling on the shirt.
We could have beat Wales 5-0 today if Sven had the spark we need to win the world cup. Thats no disrespect to Wales, but it sums up what a task England face to win it.

Sven''s not the droid we are looking for.

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Frankly, I don''t get this. We win, are effectively top of the group and with winnable games left. You want to sack him?

Under Sven, we now regularly qualify for competitions. Indeed, I don''t think England have lost a qualifying game under Sven. It has not always been this way. Of course you might say we should qualify against the likes of Azerbaijan, Wales, Northern Ireland, Austria, Poland etc. but the simple fact is that we haven''t always. I remember too many World Cups and European Championships (in the 70s admittedly) being spoiled for me simply by England not being there! 

I thought we dominated the game. Yes it was boring at times but I thought this was largely credit to the Welsh and especially the way they played under Toshack, Again, the importance of tactics? The way we played reminded me of Italy at their best or the old-style Arsenal. Frankly, winning 5-0 gets us no more points than 1-0. [Although I like you would have enjoyed it more, of course]. Qualifying games are simply about that. The real work starts when we get to Germany, assuming we do.

I would also rather have tactical sense than just passion and commitment - or would you rather go back to England under Keegan? There are many styles of management but quiet and calculating (Wenger?) can work as well as blood, guts and passion (Pearce?). I thought the 4-5-1 approach was OK and Beckham looked good in that role, especially as SW-P did so well on the right, as you point out.

Like you, I would rather have Green on the bench but could we be biased? Robinson is clearly No. 1 and Kirkland was in the pecking order long before Green but was injured. Don''t get me wrong. I would choose Green ahead of Kirkland, and probably Robinson, but the fact that Sven doesn''t is hardly cause to sack him?

Incidentally, watching it made me think that perhaps good managers (I include Sven and Toshack) know the best tactics for the players they have and the opposition they are facing and can adapt accordingly. That left me wondering about us and our manager (and for the record, I am broadly pro-Worthington).

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Funny you should mention Pearce, I think in a few years he''ll be my favourite choice for England manager.
Anyone who''d play the Sex Pistols to fire up the team before a big game gets my vote

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To be fair to sven his qualify record is exemplorary (so far touch wood (knuckles knock on  skull)) and a record of getting the results needed.

To me it seems that while the man can set up a team to beat an opponent what is missing is an ability to change the format mid game.  The substitutions could have come out of worthys mind set (ie totally incomprehensible!) as did the desire to take your best player (Rooney) and make him ineffective by sticking him on one wing then the other (Hux, left flank then right).  Is that the FA way now, how to player players out of position?

Perhaps we should do what the dutch or brazilians have done, keep him until we qualify and then change manager at that stage for someone who can motivate ad react as well as plan? (I had to laugh at Becks comment this morning that the fact the welsh jeered the english anthem fired them up, if that was fired up what is laid back?  What is it with these over paid prima donnas that start in an england 1 1dont seem to have any passion in playing for the country at all?  It is not a sven thing as its been around for several managers..)

Anyway if its not sven who is there?  The english candidates hardly qualify for arsenal or man u let alone england, all have had very limited success with 1 club only (Allardyce, curbishley, Mclaren,pearce, pardew (HA!!!)) with a paltry 1 trophy between them and team notorious for being inconsistent and one dimensional in their approach; hardly a glowing CV or impressive list of candidates is it?  Who else is there? O''Neill possibly but I hacve doyubts abouthis approach to game, ok for leicesters of this world & the roughness of the SPL but international football?     

That means going for another foreigner,  with probably Capello or Hiddink as the best of what is out there.    Both have had huge success at the highest level at a multitude of clubs with the best players.

OTBC

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[quote]Just WHAT have we WON whilst Sven has been manager ? ... hmmm?[/quote]

OK but what did we ever win without him? Yes, I know the World Cup in 1966 but that was in England and a long time ago. (..and I don''t think Sir Alf is available!!) [Incidentally, Ramsey got huge criticism for his tactical ineptitude prior to the World Cup - his critics even invented the phrase wingless wonders]

Anything else?...

I thought not.

Do you recall what happened last time we were in a World Cup qualifying group with Poland and Wales? From what I recall (1973) we couldn''t beat either at home and the Poles qualified not us! Who was the manager then? The legendary Alf Ramsey - yes the very same who won the World Cup.

For much of the time I can remember, we expected England to win World and European competitions. More often than not we failed to qualify. (''78 was particularly bad because the Scots qualified and we didn''t!)

As I see it under Sven, we have consistently qualified for major competitions. Once we are there anything can happen. The way the knockout competitions are run the best team does not always win, for example, who believes Greece are the best national team in Europe or Liverpool the best club team.

As far as having a team capable of winning the World Cup, I agree, but last time I looked we were still in the competition. If we don''t get to Germany feel free to fire him. Although I don''t think you''ll have to as I think he will go at the end of this campaign hounded out by  xenophobic and moralistic media and fans.

Incidentally, I agree Pearce could be a good future England manager but he says he is too inexperienced. Presumably anyway Maclaren is next in line. For an England manager, I think a key thing is they have to be able to exert influence with the clubs, either on the basis of reputation (e.g. Erikson) or perhaps established relationships (e.g. as Maclaren, Bruce or Robson would have with Ferguson, for example)

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"Just WHAT have we WON   whilst Sven has been manager ? ... hmmm?"

I know this point has already been made, but I feel the need to make it again.

What have we won in the last 40 years without him?

The country as usual thinks we have a world beating squad, but as usual, we are not good enough to win the world cup. Germany, Holland, Argentina and Brazil are all better than us even at our very best, and on a bad day we can lose to any one of the top 10 teams in the world.

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xenophobic and moralistic media and public ?    hey !  thats OUR money  he`s using to  act the big playboy !!    AND I happen to think that a swede shouldn`t be in charge of an ENGLAND squad  !  it makes NO sense to have ONLY English  players  in our England team , then appoint  a swede  as manager !!!  it should be well clear by now , that Svens loyalty and motivation is money ...  he  picks teams  that are predictable and boring ,   the Danes  wiped the floor with them ..  and , from what I saw of the Wales game  ,  it was clear as a bell   that England were playing like robots !  no flare , and no idea !!   lets face it , Wales  were    pretty unlucky to lose that game ..  AND they  had injuries to contend with !    one solitary  deflect goal  , and the swede  made out that he was pleased with the performance ?   you know , I just hate to think what  his excuse will be  when we get whupped  by teams  we think we should beat automatically  , Lichtenstein  would give that lot  a worrying time ..

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With 19% possession in the first half, Wales are lucky to be considered professional footballers at all.

We wiped the floor with them, kept the ball well and struggled to break down their 10 man defence. Sven is a muppet when it comes to substitutions, but his team selection is usually very good when it matters most.

It''s the players that let him down, and they are supposed to be the English passionate ones. Gerrard, Beckham, Lampard etc etc etc World Class? Well they need to prove it on a World Stage.

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Sheded - you make my points on xenophobia much better than I could myself! Incidentally, would you accept Martin O''Neill as England manager? I don''t care what nationality the manager is as long as we win. (Frankly, I don''t really care about the nationality of players either, if we can find ways to qualify them as English. I admire teams like the Republic of Ireland who seem to include you in their team as long as you have made at least a day trip to Dublin - as long as you can play football)

Frankly, I don''t care if he is a playboy or what he does in his personal life. I only care about his results on the pitch.

For me, predictable and boring is fine if we win! I would ignore friendlies. John Toshack agrees. Would you rather be Denmark? They are 4th in their group and won''t qualify!

I don''t agree we showed no flare. The pass from Beckham to SW-P for the goal was pretty excellent? I think the Welsh played to their few strengths and made it hard for us. I don''t think that Wales were unlucky. We were by far the better team and played them off the park. Yes, they made it hard for us (credit to them) and could have snatched a draw or even a win. They didn''t!

Of course, Wales had injuries and we didn''t?!?!? What about Terry, Neville and Owen (suspended I know not injured). This means we had a pretty makeshift back four and limited striking options.

Like Sven, I was pleased with the performance. Very professional and got the job done. Over the years, I have seen too many England teams chasing the ball like headless chickens (''high tempo'' I think it is called), tackling recklessly, lobbing the ball into the penalty area for an ''English-style centre forward'' only to lose to more ''boring'' teams! I hope those days are gone for good!!!

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I repeat. Sven must go. Tonight was a joke.
NI played us off the park.
I''d take Barry Fry over him tomorrow tbh.

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[quote]Sheded - you make my points on xenophobia much better than I could myself! Incidentally, would you accept Martin O''Neill as England manager? I don''t care what nationality the manager is as long as we ...[/quote]

Any further comments No-Mad ?    Svens record of always getting us through the preliminaries  is busted !   Northern Ireland   were, by far , the better team  ,  stress the word TEAM  , because   its that factor  that seperated them from England !!    NI  played  as team  in the true sense of the word  , England  , with all the talent they possess ,  looked disjointed , out of position , and clueless !      and THAT applies to Sven !!  .....  the crowd were chanting " Sack the swede "  , and they were right ,  its time the FA got real  here , admit they picked  a dud [ they wont of course ]    and  get rid of him , if  we don`t   I just can`t see us making  serious progress  in the world cup .

I`ll  discard  my xenophobia    if Martin O`Neill  gets the nod for England manager  !  

 

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[quote]Any further comments No-Mad ? Svens record of always getting us through the preliminaries is busted ! Northern Ireland were, by far , the better team , stress the word TEAM , because its ...[/quote]

A truly awful performance but as with city this is not the time to change manager.  Sven has to reduce the influence of his ''senior players'' and revert to his preferred 4-4-2 formation. 

Lampard and Gerrard were made impotent bit players for the second game running as a result of the desire to keep Beckham in the side.  neither appeared to have the nouse to get themeslves involved in the game or make the 4-5-1 work.

With that formation the midfielders have to support the striker.  Owen was left isolated and the service Owen received was league 1 standard, not international class. With a diminutive striker we have to pass the ball to him; too often we relied on a hoofed high ball and seemed amazed when owen did not get the ball.  As with city how many times did we see midfielders support owen around the penalty box when it mattered?

The passing was woeful (how many good opportunities did SWP & JCole have on the right yet failed to put 1 decent cross or pass in?) and far too reliant on hoping that one of Beckhams 40+ yds passes came off; they did in the first half but then what?  Bereft of ideas we had no game plan beyond give the ball to Beckham and let him look good.

The defence looked sound apart from Rio who does not seem to give a chuff about anything - the sooner Terry and his passion replace him the better.  Other than that the defenceis not really a problem; creating chance is.

The team has to be built around our best players in their best positions.  Rooney sat just off Owen, Gerrard running central midfield, Beckham restricted to wide right at most (his one trick is hitting fantastic crosses, whether from a dead ball or not), or subs bench if SWP is in form. 

The whole performance reminded me of Manure at FCR last season, turned up expecting to stroll it, by the time they realised it would be hard it was too late and we paid the price. 

Unlike the NCFC role, there really IS no alternative manager for Sven;  the english coached in the frame are poor quality unproven at anywhere near the top level (McLaren is thebest home grown yet he is a core part of the problems...)

 

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Can''t disagree with a word ZLF has said.

You can''t blame the formation, most of those players were playing in the same positions they would for their club, and with the quality we do have in the England squad they should have wiped the floor with NI. But they are too arrogant, putting in the minimum effort they perceive necessary to defeat teams like Wales and NI. They want to play pretty continental style football, and deem the sort of combative game NI were playing as beneath them. Most of all they don''t want to get injured as it means upsetting their club manager, and missing out on win bonuses. Its different in the actual World Cup / Euro Championships, when there they see it as a shop window for their skills and thus an opportunity of improving their wages. Then they panic if things aren''t going their way, and we throw away major games. They just don''t care enough about playing in an England shirt, they are just looking after their own interests.

Lampard, Gerrard, Wright-Phillips, Ferdinand and Ashley Cole were simply awful last night. Lampard and Gerrard can''t seem to play well together, WP was having an off night (and he was our best channel by miles on Saturday, we were lost without him on form), Ferdinand looked like he earns 100k a week and couldn''t bring himself to tackle (drop him for Terry, Carragher at least makes an effort). And someone tell Beckham that he doesn''t have to pass the ball 50 yards all the time, its gets very predictable, he can make short passes too and bring others into the game to vary things. And as for Rooney arguing with his captain...

Swedes in general like the consultative approach to life, but its time for Sven to drop this approach and start showing these players who is boss. We should revert to 4-4-2, put Becks on the right, and find a player to sit along side Gerrard (drop Lampard on current form) who will put his foot on the ball, and who won''t be intimidated by more physical teams.

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[quote]Enough is enough. Leaving Greeno out of the squad, taking off Wright-Phillips (our best player on the day) and generally being boring and negative. Sven has lost it. hes done a job for us over the yea...[/quote]

Hypocrite!!!!!!.

Sven has a far better record than Worthy, who you advocate keeping!.

As I said, a typical poster being a hypocrite.

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Sheded - I did not see the game last night so can''t really comment on the specifics of that! I was on a plane to Latvia - got to my hotel. Tried to get the commentary on Five Live only to find it blocked. Couldn''t find a link where I could pay to listen. Couldn''t even find live text commentary!!!

However, I would not sack a manager on the result of one game so can make some comments.

Yes, Sven''s remarkable record of never losing a qualifying game has gone but we can still qualify (unlike Northern Ireland!) Qualifying is about winning home games and picking up pieces elsewhere. If we win our two home games we win the group and qualify. If we don''t we might still qualify automatically as one of the best second teams or at worse in play-offs.

On your Martin O''Neill comment, could it be that you don''t see him as ''really foreign''? (Because his first language is English perhaps?)

I don''t really believe England fans. We have the best England team in living memory, a manager who has consistently qualified for major competitions and we want to sack him... I think we have an over-inflated opinion of our place in world football. We were miles behind other teams in the past. We have caught up a lot. We are now one of the best ten teams in the world and we could win a major competition if things go for us.

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[quote]Hypocrite!!!!!!. Sven has a far better record than Worthy, who you advocate keeping!. As I said, a typical poster being a hypocrite.[/quote]

Get back in your cage!
What are you now, the opinion police?
You appear to have mistaken me for someone who gives a t***.

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It always helps , No-Mad  , to have an English speaking manager for an ENGLAND team !  [ not someone  who sounds like he`s jumping up and down on a trampoline , LOL ]   .  Whether you like it or not   , England fans  want to see a passionate team , and manager , if the manager  displays all the passion of a dead prairie rat  , and his team play with equal lack of passion , you can`t blame them for the "  Sack the swede "   chants !   as for the xenophobia  bit , doesn`t that refer to dislike  of foreigners?  let me tell you something  , supporting England  , and beating the crap out of foreigners........ is what its all about !   

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[quote]Get back in your cage! What are you now, the opinion police? You appear to have mistaken me for someone who gives a t***.[/quote]

The only mistake I appear to have made Herb, is the fact that posters like you seem to deal in double standards!. And then get all ''aggressive'' when this is pointed out to them.

I will keep this in mind for future postings!. 

PS. I''m sure we would have been more impressed with an intelligent and reasoned response from you, rather than your ''Get back in your cage'' yob type reply.    

 

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[quote]It always helps , No-Mad , to have an English speaking manager for an ENGLAND team ! [ not someone who sounds like he`s jumping up and down on a trampoline , LOL ] . Whether you like it or not ...[/quote]

As NW is Irish, is he regarded as a foreigner too in an English league?. 

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It seems to me that Alistair Magowan has a lot answer for here.

You have shifted from wanting an English manager to an ''English-speaking'' manager. As Sven speaks excellent English, I presume you want a manager who speaks English either as a first language or with an accent you like! Bizarre.

As an England fan - I don''t care about the manager or team appearing passionate. I simply want them to win. All this talk of passion, commitment and energy is frankly over-rated. I would rather see skill and flair, for example. Yes, it''s fine if you are Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland and have poor quality players (with a few exceptions, such as Giggs) but England have better than that.

I don''t blame the fans for their chanting. Anyone who treks to Belfast for this has to be respected. I just don''t agree with their views - and personally I will never join chants against players or teams I support - or leave games early when I am there, come to that. I am not belittling anyone who does this - or doubting their support for the team. Just the way I was brought up as a supporter and hard to change now.

Finally, I can''t really add to what you say about xenophobia. Perhaps you are winding me up. However, given the history of hooliganism we have, particularly associated with following the national team, your words are a bit unfortunate. I want England to win every game they play so if you see that as ''beating the crap out of foreigners'' - fine. However, if we are more likely to do that by having a non-English coach in charge (and currently I think we are), fine by me.

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[quote]The only mistake I appear to have made Herb, is the fact that posters like you seem to deal in double standards!. And then get all ''aggressive'' when this is pointed out to them. I will keep this in m...[/quote]

Oh the irony. Wizard making accusations of double standards.
You couldn''t make this stuff up...

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