Football Lads Alliance

[Bill 1,788]

curious that you should be so agitated about that thought

............or perhaps not

some might say

[TIL 1010 4,722]

Not agitated just fascinated as to why you posted a wild assumption ?

Let me explain, from 1985 until 1993 i was football liaison officer for Norwich Police and got to know many of those who today frequent the Compleat Angler on a match day where that FLA flag i posted earlier on this thread was draped over the beer garden balcony. To describe them as right Wing Fascists and Nazis,well 99% of them as you yourself claim is total nonsense.

My opinion is based on experience of dealing with the local element that support and follow Norwich City in their younger days and still to this day talk to them whenever i see many of them so maybe how could post up your experiences to back up your previous post ?

[TIL 1010 4,722]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]

Not agitated just fascinated as to why you posted a wild assumption ?

Let me explain, from 1985 until 1993 i was football liaison officer for Norwich Police and got to know many of those who today frequent the Compleat Angler on a match day where that FLA flag i posted earlier on this thread was draped over the beer garden balcony. To describe them as right Wing Fascists and Nazis,well 99% of them as you yourself claim is total nonsense.

My opinion is based on experience of dealing with the local element that support and follow Norwich City in their younger days and still to this day talk to them whenever i see many of them so maybe how could post up your experiences to back up your previous post ?

[/quote]

so maybe you could post.

[Rock The Boat 1,325]

[quote user="Herman"]"Rock The Boat"

So what do you reckon, Herman. Should the police uphold the law for everybody the same or give special passess for certain groups? Like if you wanted to pray in the Royal Parks, even though it is not allowed.

I think the police are allowed to use their discretion. If their actions are likely to cause more civil strife then they can stand down even if it seems unfair to others.[/quote]

The problem with that approach, Herman, is that all one needs to do is create more civil strife, or threaten too, and then you win. One of the main pillars of our society, that keeps us as a fair and tolerant country, is that we are all equal under the law and the law is applied fairly to everyone.

You can''t keep on giving special treatment or special dispensation to groups of people to operate outside the law just because they will create civil strife. The law is the law is the law and anything else leads to anarchy.

[Bill 1,788]

" To describe them as right Wing Fascists and Nazis,well 99% of them as you yourself claim is total nonsense."

I''m sure you can point out my claiming that

[Guest]

You can''t keep on giving special treatment or special dispensation to groups of people to operate outside the law just because they will create civil strife. The law is the law is the law and anything else leads to anarchy.

There are no grey areas with rules or laws. They quite clearly state what is not acceptable and whether it is Robinson or Choudray, both are breaking rules and laws and should be arrested.

[kick it off 1,948]

[quote user="yellowrider120"]Offer went through at 20.35 yesterday Kick it Off.  [/quote]

Not been received - forum software is atrocious

[Herman 9,713]

[quote user="Rock The Boat"]

[quote user="Herman"]"Rock The Boat"

So what do you reckon, Herman. Should the police uphold the law for everybody the same or give special passess for certain groups? Like if you wanted to pray in the Royal Parks, even though it is not allowed.

I think the police are allowed to use their discretion. If their actions are likely to cause more civil strife then they can stand down even if it seems unfair to others.[/quote]

The problem with that approach, Herman, is that all one needs to do is create more civil strife, or threaten too, and then you win. One of the main pillars of our society, that keeps us as a fair and tolerant country, is that we are all equal under the law and the law is applied fairly to everyone.

You can''t keep on giving special treatment or special dispensation to groups of people to operate outside the law just because they will create civil strife. The law is the law is the law and anything else leads to anarchy.

[/quote]

Having done some more research it seems that praying is against park policy, but not against the law, so I feel that the police took the right course of action. If they were breaking the laws of the land then I fully agree that they should face action as everyone is equal under the law.

[TIL 1010 4,722]

[quote user="Mr Benn"]

" To describe them as right Wing Fascists and Nazis,well 99% of them as you yourself claim is total nonsense."

I''m sure you can point out my claiming that

[/quote]

No surprise i suppose that instead of answering a question asked of you it is met with the usual picking over of every word but you responded to a post of Yellowrider 120 where the FLA and Nazis were mentioned in the same breath ( not by him i hasten to add) and out came your 99% -1% .

Maybe you could clarify what you exactly intended that to mean if i got it wrong ?

I told you i had experience in dealing and mixing with local FLA '' members '' or whatever you wish to term them and base my views on exactly that whereas you i suggest glean your expertise from a laptop.

[TIL 1010 4,722]

By the way have a nice evening as no doubt you will continue in your usual vein when responding to posters who question anything you say and quite possibly accompanied by a Youtube clip.

[Bill 1,788]

[quote user="Mr Benn"]

"Re that link you sent to that FLA guy getting arrested, I agree he was /

is a total plonker. So was the fat bald guy earlier in the clip trying

to give a series of Nazi salutes. Knob Head! It''s people like these that

give those with genuine concerns (like me) a bad name / image."

yes it''s that 99% that give the other 1% a bad name

[/quote]

Here we are Kissinger.

My comment is one often used to challenge those who try to put up some kind of ''I was only obeying orders'' defence.

If you don''t want get covered in soot don''t wrestle with a chimney sweep, is my thought.

[Rock The Boat 1,325]

[quote user="Herman"][quote user="Rock The Boat"]

[quote user="Herman"]"Rock The Boat"

So what do you reckon, Herman. Should the police uphold the law for everybody the same or give special passess for certain groups? Like if you wanted to pray in the Royal Parks, even though it is not allowed.

I think the police are allowed to use their discretion. If their actions are likely to cause more civil strife then they can stand down even if it seems unfair to others.[/quote]

The problem with that approach, Herman, is that all one needs to do is create more civil strife, or threaten too, and then you win. One of the main pillars of our society, that keeps us as a fair and tolerant country, is that we are all equal under the law and the law is applied fairly to everyone.

You can''t keep on giving special treatment or special dispensation to groups of people to operate outside the law just because they will create civil strife. The law is the law is the law and anything else leads to anarchy.

[/quote]

Having done some more research it seems that praying is against park policy, but not against the law, so I feel that the police took the right course of action. If they were breaking the laws of the land then I fully agree that they should face action as everyone is equal under the law.

[/quote]

I''m very glad that you fully agree that they should face action if they have broken the law. But the regulations covering the Royal Parks are very much part of the law. The relevant Act of Parliament is called "The Royal Parks and Other Open Spaces Regulations", and among these laws it states that no religious prayer is allowed within the Royal Parks. Since 2004, responsibility for policing the regulations has been taken over by the Metropolitan Police who have a duty to uphold the law.

So the lady in the video I posted was correct when she said that the group of people praying on their prayer mats were actually breaking the law, and the police should move the group on. That the police did nothing only goes to show that certain groups of people can break the law, in full view of the police and get away with it.

But what is really shocking, is that the police found out the identity of the old lady, found out her address and then came round demanding to be let in to her home without a warrant. If you watched the second video I posted you will hear the police refusing to give a reason why they were there yet demanded to be let in. When the old lady did open the door the police rushed in and you will hear the female police officer shouting ''perverting the course of justice''.

So an old lady now becomes a criminal for reporting a breach of the law. That my friend, is the definition of a police state.

[Herman 9,713]

Yes, from two youtube videos you have comprehensively proved that we are living in a police state. Well done.[Y]

[Bill 1,788]

"So an old lady now becomes a criminal for reporting a breach of the law."

I would have thought that would need to have been proven in court

Perhaps you could outline that conviction.

[cornish sam 944]

Sorry rock the boat, I''ve just had a look at that set of regulations and on legislation.gov.uk it doesn''t actually mention prayer amongst the restricted activities. Riding a bike or other wheeled contrivance (e.g. kids scooter) not on a road is mentioned as is riding a bike between sunset and sunrise, neither of which are actually policed, but prayer does not appear there.... Just to make sure I''m looking in the right place though, this is the link to the set of REGULATIONS that I looked at http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1997/1639/contents/made

And just for reference it would appear the punishment for these things would not be arresting, it would be being asked to stop and then ejected from said park...

[Rock The Boat 1,325]

[quote user="Mr Benn"]

"So an old lady now becomes a criminal for reporting a breach of the law."

I would have thought that would need to have been proven in court

Perhaps you could outline that conviction.

[/quote]

How about you responding to Mr. Tilson about your personal experiences of the FLA?

[Bill 1,788]

yes that will help to produce evidence of this woman''s conviction

but at least it does point towards where your sympathies lie... Rock the (jack)boat

[kick it off 1,948]

Don''t you think police time and resources would be better spent dealing with actual criminals RTB? Who, except vehement racists, would give a toss about people harmlessly praying in a bloody park. Who are the victims of this ''crime''?

[cornish sam 944]

I''ve just done a little more research and the thing against religious activity is actually a royal parks policy which isn''t actually covered by the law that parliament has passed so technically no law was actually being broken...

[kick it off 1,948]

No response to my query RTB?

[kick it off 1,948]

Nope, nothing come through via PM. I don''t use the email account this account is linked to anymore so no idea about that. Not sure why you can''t just make this enigmatic offer publicly? Don''t have time to faff around calling/texting strangers I''m afraid, nor do I want to give my mobile number out to strangers.

[Rock The Boat 1,325]

[quote user="kick it off"]Don''t you think police time and resources would be better spent dealing with actual criminals RTB? Who, except vehement racists, would give a toss about people harmlessly praying in a bloody park. Who are the victims of this ''crime''?[/quote]

You have kids KIO? Any one who has kids will understand this very well.

When you set boundaries, and your kids ignore those boundaries and you do nothing at all, then you kids soon learn that your boundaries are meaningless and they can ignore you without repercussions.

But it doesn''t stop there. Your kids will then see how far they can push those boundaries, and you as a parent are now in a difficult position because you have already shown yourself to be a weak and ineffective parent. You''ve lost control.

It''s the same in society. If you have rules and regulations that you don''t enforce then those rules become meaningless.

So it starts with one hundred men praying in a park and where does it go next? Well look what happened in Nice, France this week at the end of Ramadan. Thousands of men took to the streets to pray in defiance of the countries laws.

And after that? In Clichy, Paris they prayed on the streets every Friday after being evicted for illegally occupying a building.

And so it escalates, and is allowed to escalate because nothing was done when it was a very small problem.

It might not bother you personally until it happens on your street outside your home (and they begin telling your wife to cover her hair). But it will be too late by then because it will be out of your control.

[Herman 9,713]

Did you bother to follow the other links to videos of Muslims being told not to pray in the park? There''s even one of a policeman explaining the laws and policies to them. Two sides to every story.

[cornish sam 944]

Also rtb, did you not follow the link to what the law you cite actually says? Prayer is not included in the regulations, it is instead a park policy...

Just put of interest, what is wrong with praying in the streets? Is it just Muslim prayer that you object to or all forms of religious expression? Do you feel the same about hari Krishna for example? Or in Canterbury every Saturday you have Christians praying in the main street every Saturday, should that be stopped too?

[Rock The Boat 1,325]

[quote user="cornish sam"]Also rtb, did you not follow the link to what the law you cite actually says? Prayer is not included in the regulations, it is instead a park policy...

Just put of interest, what is wrong with praying in the streets? Is it just Muslim prayer that you object to or all forms of religious expression? Do you feel the same about hari Krishna for example? Or in Canterbury every Saturday you have Christians praying in the main street every Saturday, should that be stopped too?[/quote]

I think my answer to KIO covers your questions.

[kick it off 1,948]

[quote user="Rock The Boat"][quote user="kick it off"]Don''t you think police time and resources would be better spent dealing with actual criminals RTB? Who, except vehement racists, would give a toss about people harmlessly praying in a bloody park. Who are the victims of this ''crime''?[/quote]

You have kids KIO? Any one who has kids will understand this very well.

When you set boundaries, and your kids ignore those boundaries and you do nothing at all, then you kids soon learn that your boundaries are meaningless and they can ignore you without repercussions.

But it doesn''t stop there. Your kids will then see how far they can push those boundaries, and you as a parent are now in a difficult position because you have already shown yourself to be a weak and ineffective parent. You''ve lost control.

It''s the same in society. If you have rules and regulations that you don''t enforce then those rules become meaningless.

So it starts with one hundred men praying in a park and where does it go next? Well look what happened in Nice, France this week at the end of Ramadan. Thousands of men took to the streets to pray in defiance of the countries laws.

And after that? In Clichy, Paris they prayed on the streets every Friday after being evicted for illegally occupying a building.

And so it escalates, and is allowed to escalate because nothing was done when it was a very small problem.

It might not bother you personally until it happens on your street outside your home (and they begin telling your wife to cover her hair). But it will be too late by then because it will be out of your control.[/quote]

Yes I do, and I still don''t buy your analogy.

So what if they pray somewhere else? Who cares? I lived in Turkey and they''d pray in the bloody underpass, on the street or wherever - and not once did I feel offended or concerned by it. Probably due to not being a racist though. As to happening on my street and telling the bteer half to cover her hair? The street bit, again, couldn''t give a toss. Not hurting me or anybody else. The covering hair bit - you''re talking utter nonsense so I''ll just bypass that.

Do you get this upset when footballers make the sign of the cross when they come on as a sub? Where will it end? Before you know it they''ll be conducting mass in the stands and only selling red wine and wafers at the concessions stands.... (to be clear, I''m being ridiculous to try and put your analogy in some kind of perspective as to how stupid it is).

So again, all your "points" about why you''re offended or upset by it, would only upset or offend you if you were a racist. I''m not calling you a racist, but if it walks like a duck.... yeah, basically you''re a racist.

[Bill 1,788]

[quote user="Rock The Boat"]And after that? In Clichy, Paris they prayed on the streets every Friday after being evicted for illegally occupying a building.

And so it escalates, and is allowed to escalate because nothing was done when it was a very small problem. [/quote]

Lie

[Guest]

I have no idea why anyone would have a problem with peaceful prayer in public.

However, you have to wonder why there is mass prayer in a public park rather than in the relevant mosque or church. What is the reasoning behind it?

[kick it off 1,948]

Why do they have Carol concerts in schools and town centres instead of relevant places of worship like churches? It''s just a way to have a specific religious celebration I guess. The prayer in the park was a way of bringing the community together as they wouldn''t have fit everybody into a single mosque - 5 mosques came together to organise the event. It was the end of eid and the most important religious event in the Islamic calendar.

[Rock the Boat 0]

[quote user="kick it off"]Why do they have Carol concerts in schools and town centres instead of relevant places of worship like churches? It''s just a way to have a specific religious celebration I guess. The prayer in the park was a way of bringing the community together as they wouldn''t have fit everybody into a single mosque - 5 mosques came together to organise the event. It was the end of eid and the most important religious event in the Islamic calendar.[/quote]

And did they seek permission from the park aitho4ities first or did they just turn up?