Football Lads Alliance

[Van wink 2,994]

Splat the Cat wrote the following post at 14/06/2018 2:05 PM:

"Nasty fascists

Disgrace to the club. Must be barred for life from the Carra and supporting Norwich

Winky you are unusually quiet on this thread "

Hopefully when we get our shiney new board you wont be able to go around making nasty accusations about posters and fellow fans, then run off and change your account again.👍This thread hardly needs a comment, any decent fan, which I''m sure we all are on here, would condemn an organisation like this and feel outragethat some have tried to associate our club with such.As for barring someone for life from supporting City, how would you propose to do that?

[Bill 1,788]

[quote user="FenwayFrank"]The problem is that there is a narrow line between freedom of speech and being a d1ckhead. These “ lads” can go on there marches and extreme Muslims can abuse our soldiers by calling them baby killers etc. Neither of those are right but they are both currently allowed to. Quite when that turns into “hate crime” I don’t know.[/quote]

I would assume when you are trying to encourage others to commit a criminal act ie te rigtwingers wanting to kill an MP.

The point here is in the use of NCFC''s badge so as to suggest they are representing views held by the club.

Though the use of the word Division is exaggerating things a bit.

Far better that they remove the club badge and just have Norwich Divi''s

[Mello Yello 2,280]

Or even, ie Left winger John McDonnell''s lynch comments regarding Esther McVey?......

[Van wink 2,994]

Mello Yello wrote the following post at 14/06/2018 5:49 PM:

Or even, ie Left winger John McDonnell''s lynch comments regarding Esther McVey?......

a truly shocking thing to say

[A Load of Squit 5,128]

[quote user="yellowrider120"][quote user="kick it off"]Yellowrider, not sure why you think groups of racists DO have a place in society but personally I dont. I also think racists are scumbags. That answers both your questions. They''re basically the National Front under a different branding.[/quote]

Evening Kick it Off - may surprise you but I 100% agree with your first point i.e. that ''groups of racists have no place in our society''. However (and its a damn big ''However'') so many people nowadays use the term Racists, Fascists and Nazis to describe anyone''s view that happens to not fit their own political views. I don''t include you in that statement of course as I''m sure you have researched these matters very thoroughly before committing ''pen to paper''.

Those that DO regularly use those terms have usually never studied history and never watched fantastic documentaries such as ''The World At War'' or ''The Nazis - A warning from History''. I''m sure you have though??

Can I ask for your comments (and others who may be interested) on two very specific points. These relate to fundamental issues (as I understand it) on which FLA are campaigning.

1. The last leader (and they''ve had a few!) of UKIP on his only appearance on Question Time made the following remark........''there is no doubt that many people in the UK are worried about the rise of ''RADICAL'' Islam''. He was hissed and jeered by several in the audience and the other panellists (notably Chuka Umuna) accused him of being ''Islamophobic''. I would think that his comment was sensible, balanced and represented a very widely held view. What do you think??

2. The FLA are campaigning (according to them) to ''protect free speech''. If you can get the link (below) to work, please watch this video. It clearly shows left wing activists trying (and ultimately) succeeding in stopping a legal, organised byelection public hustings. You don''t mince words in calling the FLA ''racists'' and ''National Front''. Please let me know what you think of the demonstrators in Lewisham at that event.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPwgiI8V4QY

NB - I''m NOT trying to ''wind you up'' with this reply. My intention is to respond to what you''ve said with some serious political discussion.[/quote]

There is plenty of doubt that many people are worried also theres doubt that ''radical islam'' exists and that it is on the rise, maybe the audience hissed because they disagreed with his premise and therefore didn''t believe it to be legitimate.

The send bit is a bit of whataboutery.

[Herman 9,713]

[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]Good piece on the FLA here - [url]https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/kzx8jw/are-the-football-lads-alliance-another-far-right-street-movement[/url]

Started with little direction and was taken over by EDl types. While everyone who attends isn’t a racist etc it is certainly a group that has a very large element of that.

Certainly not a group that Norwich City would want their badge associated with.[/quote]

Finally got around to that piece. Interesting and depressing at the same time.

[Iwans Big Toe 312]

Whilst not taking any time (nor will I) to look into the philosophies of the "Football Lads Alliance" I have found that there is a strong propensity for those among the left to state that anyone with views that are even marginally left of center are "far right extremists".

This is quite ironic as these "lefties" become the far right by espoucing Facist ideals such as "you must agree with me 100% or be censored".

[Bill 1,788]

[quote user="Van wink"]

Mello Yello wrote the following post at 14/06/2018 5:49 PM:

Or even, ie Left winger John McDonnell''s lynch comments regarding Esther McVey?......

a truly shocking thing to say

[/quote]

yes, how dare an MP report what a constituent said

though as it was not said as a threat or encouragement to any form of violence  I should check first next time before regurgitating more right wing shyte

because that is partly why such numpties over excite themselves - by having stuff misrepresented to them

[nutty nigel 7,509]

I don''t think that sort of intolerance is exclusive to those on the right, on the left or in the centre. Everybody has their own truth and nobody is allowed to question it. 

[Bill 1,788]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]I don''t think that sort of intolerance is exclusive to those on the right, on the left or in the centre. Everybody has their own truth and nobody is allowed to question it. [/quote]

au contraire

it is when that ''''truth'' is challenged that we get the bleats of ''we are not allowed free speech''

[Iwans Big Toe 312]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]I don''t think that sort of intolerance is exclusive to those on the right, on the left or in the centre. Everybody has their own truth and nobody is allowed to question it. [/quote]

It''s a myth that everyone has "their own truth". Truth is not subjective, the truth is the truth. The truth is that Manchester City won the Premier League last year and no matter how much a supporter of any of the other 91 league clubs insists that their side were Champions it doesn''t chance the truth.

However, most people aren''t fans of the truth, so they make something up that fits with their own world view, no matter if their politics are center, right or left. Hence the 3 stars.[;)]

[Van wink 2,994]

"yes, how dare an MP report what a constituent said"yep always reporting what someone else said, or what someone else posted, poor luvvies.

[kick it off 1,948]

[quote user="yellowrider120"]Evening Kick it Off - may surprise you but I 100% agree with your first point i.e. that ''groups of racists have no place in our society''. However (and its a damn big ''However'') so many people nowadays use the term Racists, Fascists and Nazis to describe anyone''s view that happens to not fit their own political views. I don''t include you in that statement of course as I''m sure you have researched these matters very thoroughly before committing ''pen to paper''.

Those that DO regularly use those terms have usually never studied history and never watched fantastic documentaries such as ''The World At War'' or ''The Nazis - A warning from History''. I''m sure you have though??

Can I ask for your comments (and others who may be interested) on two very specific points. These relate to fundamental issues (as I understand it) on which FLA are campaigning.

1. The last leader (and they''ve had a few!) of UKIP on his only appearance on Question Time made the following remark........''there is no doubt that many people in the UK are worried about the rise of ''RADICAL'' Islam''. He was hissed and jeered by several in the audience and the other panellists (notably Chuka Umuna) accused him of being ''Islamophobic''. I would think that his comment was sensible, balanced and represented a very widely held view. What do you think??

2. The FLA are campaigning (according to them) to ''protect free speech''. If you can get the link (below) to work, please watch this video. It clearly shows left wing activists trying (and ultimately) succeeding in stopping a legal, organised byelection public hustings. You don''t mince words in calling the FLA ''racists'' and ''National Front''. Please let me know what you think of the demonstrators in Lewisham at that event.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPwgiI8V4QY

NB - I''m NOT trying to ''wind you up'' with this reply. My intention is to respond to what you''ve said with some serious political discussion.[/quote]

If you agree about groups of racists, then why on earth are you on here defending a group of racists? There is no doubt about what the FLA is and what it stands for. That''s not because they don''t agree with my political views, that''s because they are racists. Stand Up to Racism campaign recognises them as racists. They have a facebook group including various posts on hanging Sadiq Khan, and praising the terrorist who attacked the mosque. 

I''d love it if you could explain how Sadiq Khan or innocent muslims going about their daily business are "radicals", but you won''t be able to, because it is entirely ridiculous. I''m sure you''ll come back and say "it''s a small minority of FLA, every group has them blah blah blah". Reality is, if you associate with people who support terrorist attacks on Muslims, hanging Sadiq Khan for daring to be a prominent muslim, and calling for Diane Abbot (quite how muslim she is or how she fits into the "radical islam" rhetoric is pretty unclear to me) to be run over, then you are a racist.

I''m glad you''ve watched some fantastic documentaries, I would advise everybody to educate themselves on the horrors of WW2. I''m more familiar than most as my grandad was in a concentration camp (Mauthausen) and had a nail hammered through his stomach amongst other horrors, and his father and brother were lined up against a wall and shot by the Nazis for no good reason other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time. So yes, I think you could say I''m pretty well educated on the topic.

I don''t use the term lightly, but the FLA are very similar indeed to the Nazis in terms of perspective, they fortunately don''t have the leadership or support to follow through, but I absolutely believe that if they had opportunity they would put innocent muslims and black people in concentration camps.

In response to your points....

1) The last UKIP leader had an openly racist girlfriend. Maybe the audience didn''t agree with the premise of radical Islam, maybe they think UKIP are the BNP in disguise, maybe they think somebody with a racist girlfriend probably shouldn''t be making any comments at all relating to race, maybe they thought Henry Bolton is a Tw*t and would have booed anything that came out of his mouth, maybe they are sick and tired of UKIP ramming Islam down everybody''s throats as if it is the cause of all of society''s ills. Maybe it''s just for the sheer fact that he has frequently made Islamophobic comments and everybody saw him for what he is.... I don''t know, I wasn''t there so speculating on the reasons an audience booed seems rather futile.

2) I couldn''t give a toss what the FLA say they are doing. The Nazis said they were acting "for the greater good". The FLA is an umbrella for racists. There is no debate to be had about that. I''ve watched the video and I disagree with their actions.... however I''m not sure what exactly it has to do with the FLA? I would rather have people willing to stand up to racism even if they don''t cover themselves in glory doing it, than have people sit down and let racism flourish. I don''t know anything about the specific situation in Lewisham, or the candidate that they shut down, however I echo the words of the historian Ian Kershaw... "The road to Auschwitz was built by hate, but paved with indifference" so whilst I don''t support a legitimate hustings being shut down due to the protests in your video (which again, have little to do with the FLA), I wholeheartedly support any counter demos to FLA rallies. 

Maybe those kind of protests towards UKIP have something to do with them opening their doors to Neo-nazis though - Bill Etheridge (UKIP MEP) is always asking extremist groups to join UKIP, such as the White Pendragons (LINK). In case you are unaware, the White Pendragon group are the ones who took a set of gallows to a Sadiq Khan speech and have links to the KKK.... they''re also run by an ex-UKIP member and an ex-EDL member. Bill Etheridge also told young UKIPpers they should copy Hitler because he "achieved a great deal". So whilst the link you showed me doesn''t look great, I don''t know who the UKIP candidate or what he has said/done (if anything) to warrant that, so as I said, I will reserve judgement in lieu of having the full facts, but based solely on the video I disagree with their actions.

[Bill 1,788]

[quote user="Van wink"]"yes, how dare an MP report what a constituent said"yep always reporting what someone else said, or what someone else posted, poor luvvies.

[/quote]

progress of a sort I suppose

hand crank accepting that the remark was not that of the MP

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="Iwans Big Toe"]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]I don''t think that sort of intolerance is exclusive to those on the right, on the left or in the centre. Everybody has their own truth and nobody is allowed to question it. [/quote]

It''s a myth that everyone has "their own truth". Truth is not subjective, the truth is the truth. The truth is that Manchester City won the Premier League last year and no matter how much a supporter of any of the other 91 league clubs insists that their side were Champions it doesn''t chance the truth.

However, most people aren''t fans of the truth, so they make something up that fits with their own world view, no matter if their politics are center, right or left. Hence the 3 stars.[;)]

[/quote]

I know of no world view that isn''t based on something made up. Unless we have different ideas of what a world view is. That''s quite possible too....

[Bill 1,788]

Unless challenged these fascists will continue to spew out their lies

Here''s FreeTommy Robinson  (1.20m) telling some young fascist that we have 3000 muslims that are monitored 24 hours a day all year

at a cost of £9bn

which I believe is £3m each !

Just as others were were laughing at these couple of nutters, so many others elsewhere dismiss their antics as little more than absurd.... but their lies still need to be outed

[Iwans Big Toe 312]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Iwans Big Toe"]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]I don''t think that sort of intolerance is exclusive to those on the right, on the left or in the centre. Everybody has their own truth and nobody is allowed to question it. [/quote]

It''s a myth that everyone has "their own truth". Truth is not subjective, the truth is the truth. The truth is that Manchester City won the Premier League last year and no matter how much a supporter of any of the other 91 league clubs insists that their side were Champions it doesn''t chance the truth.

However, most people aren''t fans of the truth, so they make something up that fits with their own world view, no matter if their politics are center, right or left. Hence the 3 stars.[;)]

[/quote]

I know of no world view that isn''t based on something made up. Unless we have different ideas of what a world view is. That''s quite possible too....

[/quote]

If that''s the case and everything is made up you can''t be certain of anything. Gravity might be a lie and we all might be about to float off the planet. Hold tight old boy, you don''t want to disappear into the vacum of space.

That is of course unless it''s your truth that space isn''t a vacum and it''s actually a multi-coloured rainbow where Delia is queen of the universe. In that case good luck to you, maybe a few helium baloons would help? But then again in your world view may be helium isn''t lighter thatn air, perhaps concrete is?

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="Iwans Big Toe"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Iwans Big Toe"]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]I don''t think that sort of intolerance is exclusive to those on the right, on the left or in the centre. Everybody has their own truth and nobody is allowed to question it. [/quote]

It''s a myth that everyone has "their own truth". Truth is not subjective, the truth is the truth. The truth is that Manchester City won the Premier League last year and no matter how much a supporter of any of the other 91 league clubs insists that their side were Champions it doesn''t chance the truth.

However, most people aren''t fans of the truth, so they make something up that fits with their own world view, no matter if their politics are center, right or left. Hence the 3 stars.[;)]

[/quote]

I know of no world view that isn''t based on something made up. Unless we have different ideas of what a world view is. That''s quite possible too....

[/quote]

If that''s the case and everything is made up you can''t be certain of anything. Gravity might be a lie and we all might be about to float off the planet. Hold tight old boy, you don''t want to disappear into the vacum of space.

That is of course unless it''s your truth that space isn''t a vacum and it''s actually a multi-coloured rainbow where Delia is queen of the universe. In that case good luck to you, maybe a few helium baloons would help? But then again in your world view may be helium isn''t lighter thatn air, perhaps concrete is?

[/quote]

The laws of gravity are proven. But they don''t say what gravity is. They simply say what effects it has. Do you know what gravity is?

[Iwans Big Toe 312]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Iwans Big Toe"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Iwans Big Toe"]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]I don''t think that sort of intolerance is exclusive to those on the right, on the left or in the centre. Everybody has their own truth and nobody is allowed to question it. [/quote]

It''s a myth that everyone has "their own truth". Truth is not subjective, the truth is the truth. The truth is that Manchester City won the Premier League last year and no matter how much a supporter of any of the other 91 league clubs insists that their side were Champions it doesn''t chance the truth.

However, most people aren''t fans of the truth, so they make something up that fits with their own world view, no matter if their politics are center, right or left. Hence the 3 stars.[;)]

[/quote]

I know of no world view that isn''t based on something made up. Unless we have different ideas of what a world view is. That''s quite possible too....

[/quote]

If that''s the case and everything is made up you can''t be certain of anything. Gravity might be a lie and we all might be about to float off the planet. Hold tight old boy, you don''t want to disappear into the vacum of space.

That is of course unless it''s your truth that space isn''t a vacum and it''s actually a multi-coloured rainbow where Delia is queen of the universe. In that case good luck to you, maybe a few helium baloons would help? But then again in your world view may be helium isn''t lighter thatn air, perhaps concrete is?

[/quote]

The laws of gravity are proven. But they don''t say what gravity is. They simply say what effects it has. Do you know what gravity is?

[/quote]

Subjective?

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="Iwans Big Toe"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Iwans Big Toe"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Iwans Big Toe"]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]I don''t think that sort of intolerance is exclusive to those on the right, on the left or in the centre. Everybody has their own truth and nobody is allowed to question it. [/quote]

It''s a myth that everyone has "their own truth". Truth is not subjective, the truth is the truth. The truth is that Manchester City won the Premier League last year and no matter how much a supporter of any of the other 91 league clubs insists that their side were Champions it doesn''t chance the truth.

However, most people aren''t fans of the truth, so they make something up that fits with their own world view, no matter if their politics are center, right or left. Hence the 3 stars.[;)]

[/quote]

I know of no world view that isn''t based on something made up. Unless we have different ideas of what a world view is. That''s quite possible too....

[/quote]

If that''s the case and everything is made up you can''t be certain of anything. Gravity might be a lie and we all might be about to float off the planet. Hold tight old boy, you don''t want to disappear into the vacum of space.

That is of course unless it''s your truth that space isn''t a vacum and it''s actually a multi-coloured rainbow where Delia is queen of the universe. In that case good luck to you, maybe a few helium baloons would help? But then again in your world view may be helium isn''t lighter thatn air, perhaps concrete is?

[/quote]

The laws of gravity are proven. But they don''t say what gravity is. They simply say what effects it has. Do you know what gravity is?

[/quote]

Subjective?

[/quote]

The popular belief is that gravity is a phenomenon.Do you know what a phenomenon is?

[cornish sam 944]

Well this thread is taking two very different paths...

Go on then nutty, I''ll bite. Does gravity bend space time or is gravity bent space time? I''ve never been sure...

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="cornish sam"]Well this thread is taking two very different paths...

Go on then nutty, I''ll bite. Does gravity bend space time or is gravity bent space time? I''ve never been sure...[/quote]

I don''t know buddy. I don''t know what it is. Isaac Newton found it. But it was already there so he wasn''t really the law maker. Just the law observer? Who was the law maker?

I thin I''ll go back to trying to discover which of the 112 different genders I am today. Maybe I''ll find the answer on Question Time.....

[Guest]

Recently published diaries suggest Newton was a bit of a racist. Best we delegitimise all his work in the name of equality, amiright?!

[king canary 7,578]

You appear to have confused Newton with Einstein in order to make an argument nobody is making...

[cornish sam 944]

Surely that''s relative KC...and especially apt considering nutty''s original point about truth....

[FCC 76]

If anyone had a problem with Cameron when he slotted us in front at Wembley they aren’t a City fan.

We are Yellow and Green and I don’t care about any other colour.

[Mello Yello 2,280]

Yeah, just google John McDonnell and Ester McVey......He was just quoting someone else......You decide.......

[River End Canary 18]

[quote user="FCC"]If anyone had a problem with Cameron when he slotted us in front at Wembley they aren’t a City fan.

We are Yellow and Green and I don’t care about any other colour.[/quote]

Splendidly put but unfortunately there are still a minority of fans who want a racial and devise game. There is even one who regularly contributes on here

I tend to ignore and don''t give them the oxygen of acknowledgement

[Mr Apples 1,317]

I wonder who helped them out with the spelling of democratic?

Apples

[Herman 9,713]

"Iwan''s Big Toe

Whilst not taking any time (nor will I) to look into the philosophies of the "Football Lads Alliance" I have found that there is a strong propensity for those among the left to state that anyone with views that are even marginally left of center are "far right extremists".This is quite ironic as these "lefties" become the far right by espoucing Facist ideals such as "you must agree with me 100% or be censored".

Aren''t you falling in a similar trap. Anybody that is not happy with the far right and don''t think their message should be spread so easily must be a lefty?!