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A long but very interesting read about ripping off football fans.

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From the Guardian


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Football fans are idiots

Football is pricier, more uncompetitive and less atmospheric than ever. So why do supporters still lap it up, asks a bemused Sean Ingle

"He may look like an idiot and talk like an idiot but don''t let that fool you. He really is an idiot" - Groucho Marx.
Football fans are idiots. Or, to rephrase that sentence using less incendiary language: when it comes to football, intelligent people act stupid. And yes, that probably includes you.

After all, you remain hooked on a sport that has, over the past decade, become as competitive as a F1 warm-up lap - while at the same time taking ever-larger chunks out of your salary. Smart people would stand up to such exploitation. Football fans prefer to revel in their "hardcore" commitment.

Even if a match is shunted to some unholy hour to accommodate Sky, you think nothing of travelling hundreds of miles to sit in a stadium with all the atmosphere of a wake, to show loyalty to your club. The same club that''s always thinking of ingenious new ways to bleed you dry.
When it comes to football, your rationality goes awol. You worship players who are at best indifferent to you, and at worst despise you. If a referee makes a dubious decision against your team, he''s a wanker or a cheat. And if a journalist writes something you disagree with, he carries a vendetta.

Your idiocy doesn''t end there. For you take more interest in pre-season friendlies - games which are, without exception, about as meaningful as Gazza''s comedy breasts - than the growing inequality between football''s haves and have-nots and what to do about it.

In short, you''re an idiot.

A prediction...

Here''s what will happen in the Premiership this season: Chelsea, or Arsenal or Manchester United, will win the title. Liverpool will come fourth. One of the 10 or 11 teams who graze in mid-table will surprise us, but the rest won''t. And at least one newly-promoted side will go straight back down. Surprised? Appalled? Or just thinking: ''Yeah, and?''

If it''s the latter, you perhaps reckon football has always been this predictable ("Didn''t Liverpool win everything in the 80s?"), but the facts don''t back that up.

Everyone remembers that Manchester United pick-pocketed the first Premiership title in 1992-93 - what seems amazing now is that Aston Villa finished second, Norwich third, Blackburn fourth and QPR fifth. And that''s not a skewed example - between 1985-95, 13 different clubs finished in the top three, exactly the same number as in the previous decade (and the decade before that).

In the last 10 years, that figure was just six [Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Newcastle and Leeds]. And with Champions League money and Roman Abramovich''s hard-earned roubles swishing around, the gap between the rich and the rest is widening by the season. It used to be that if you lost less than seven games you''d win the league - but since Boxing Day 2002, when Manchester United lost to Middlesbrough, the eventual Premiership winners have lost just one league game between them (Chelsea''s 1-0 defeat at Manchester City) in 95 matches.

But here''s the rub: despite being as predictable as a Jo Brand fat-gag, the Premiership is as popular as ever. Why? No really, why?

Another season, another price rise...

Oil prices and company directors'' pay-rises apart, few things in life are consistently more inflation-busting than season ticket price-hikes. But each May, most fans'' response is thuddingly predictable: a moan, a brief moment of contemplation, and then a question - do you take Visa or MasterCard?

Arsenal might just be able to justify charging £1,825, the most expensive season ticket in the Premiership, by citing market forces - but how can Millwall get away with asking £29 to watch their match with Sheffie

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Thanks for posting this Barclayendboy I think it sums up the state of football nicely. For all the good the Sky millions have done for the game they''ve changed it beyond recognition. Yes we''ve seen the cream of the worlds players in this country but that has been at the expensive of our home grown (by that I mean British Isles) talent and this has impacted on our national teams.

After the debacle of ITV digital the football league has got back to a decent footing but still relies on offloading the odd player to the Premiership in order to run at flat to small loss. We have a highly competitive league (as we have painfully found out so far this season!) based on clubs with a general crowd base of 15 to 25k. However the inequalities of finance mean that promotion is a golden chalice, the temptation exists to stretch that little bit further and spend beyond your means to get that one player which will get you to the promised land.

Once you reach the Premiership you become a poor relation, struggling for players (even if you have cash - just ask Wigan) and set for a miserable season. Yes you may finally become a Charlton / Bolton team and have a chance at going for the heady heights of 7th! If you fail it''s back down to the Championship, your foreign mercenaries jump ship, the Premiership attempts to asset strip you of your best players and you''re left to pick up the pieces left behind including the shattered confidence of your team. What happened to a genuinely competitive league, a sensible league structure, the idea it''s about the sport not the pursuit of the almighty $ ? 

The simple truth is football is the worst run industry in this country, it is a bubble to rival the dotcoms and carries the seeds of it''s own collapse. The short termism of those who run the game astound me. This is the real debate we should be having on these boards because it''s the root of our desperation to get back to the top flight ........  Views?

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That article just about sums up whats going on in football these days !   the  rot started with the Bosman ruling .. which I think was right , in principle , but led to players getting themselves slimy greedy agents , and so  began  the wheeling and dealing  ....    this coincided with the rapid growth of TV channels  , ever greedy  [ in all senses of the word ! ]  for program material  , the clubs with the money made  profitable deals with the various TV companies  , while the poorer clubs   didn`t get a look in  , and so we have the situation  today

Anyone for cricket  ? 

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Thank you, Barclay end boy, that was a very interesting read. That sure as heck must have been some typing marathon for you though.

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[quote]-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From the Guardian Quote Football fans are idiots Football is pricier, more uncompetitive and less atmospheric than ...[/quote]

Thanks for that, very interesting, and I have to agree. Ill scan through the post again, and just make random comments.

The papers always describe the Premiership as the "Best league in the world". Out of 20 teams only 3 can win it. Thats not the best, its not even competitive.

Good points about abusing the referee. I dont get football fans at times, they always shout "HANDBALL!" whenever its near the opponents arm, even if its not. Dont they realize that if they only shouted when it is geniunely handball the ref may actually listen? Same with fouls? Unfortuanetly the majority of the Boo boys at Carrow road, and on here, are the same people who get up and shout "F***IN Referee, He needs F***IN glasses." - Even when its obvious he has made a right decision. Infact I remember a funny case from last season, we were playing Birmingham I believe, and Damo challenged a Birmingham player, it looked as though the Brum player handled, and all the Barclay screamed HANDBALL!!, the ref gave nothing and you got all the morons standing up and cursing the ref, the funny thing being it was actually Damo that handled it!

Couldnt agree more about Kick-off times, being "Small-time Norwich" we arent really affected too much. But I long for the regular 3PM saturday kick off. Apparently Man U dont have a Saturday 3PM kick off until the end of september, for once I feel sorry for them.

At least the championship and lower leagues are competitive, the Premiership is a joke these days.

"These days at home matches, what usually happens? You get to the ground at 2.50pm, just in time to hear a local radio DJ induce a faux-atmosphere by shouting: "Are you ready? I said: Are you ready? Let''s make some noise!" Like sheep, the crowd responds, sings one song, and then settles back into silence."

Made me laugh - I dont see why we need the bloke from Radio Broadland "Leading us with Kick It Off!" Are we incapable of doing it ourselves? We used to get on fine without having to do that. And if I was an away fan I would laugh, it just looks stupid needing a radio DJ to get us to sing!

Agreed about players moving on, with fans saying they are greedy. Ive said the same thing many times, if I got offered to do the same job, but for more money it would be tough to say no. There are some exceptional circumstances where there is genuine loyalty, but not many.

I guess being a big Rugby Union and Cricket fan means I think differently about the officials. I play Rugby, where you are taught to respect the officials, and accept the decision. Infact I see more maturity watching my cousin play Under 13 rugby than the average football team.

Ill still watch it, Norwich are one of the few teams who certainly arent predictable. But the journo is right, football is a mess. And fans need to do something about it.

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Just four replies to this thread that rather sums up the journo''s point doesn''t it? We all bleat on about the odd £2m here or there, sack the manager, loyal supporters, my opinion is better than yours, kissing the badge and all the old rubbish but nobody is willing to talk about the big underlying issues in football.

This is the kind of post which should be pinned to the top of the board and have page after page of replies but oh no lets just keep trawling over the same old stuff whilst paying our money to the people who''ve sold out the game and happily run it as if it''s the Italian government - debt to the eyeballs and staggering on ...

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The "article" may sound cynical, but it''s so true!

I don''t buy programme''s anymore, or even the latest football shirt. I instead, choose to wear a 70''s retro top-as it always remains in fashion(as long as I wear platform shoes and flared jeans & tank top). When I bought my season ticket many moons ago, I was entitled to a free ''prog'', a cup of tea and a biccy at half time.

Now? "Diddley Squat!" (Yeah OK, free entry to the reserves, money off merchandise, 10% off a meal for 20 etc etc!)

I love this club, and it is no way as bad as the top 3/4 Premier outfits who are possibly creating the alienation of the Football League. Marketing, is revenue from the fans,(who are the ''pumping'' heart of the club!) which is hopefully ''pumped'' back into the club for transfers, wages etc, and not into some; overweight & ''flatulent'' ''fat cats'' silk purse.

I reiterate that the article is true, but what can we do about it?

Maybe, when February comes, and that season ticket reapplication form drops on my doormat. I will not blindly write my cheque, but ponder on whether I should just become a member again? as I don''t think I will have problems finding a seat... Or am I just being negative & cynical?

I''ll still be there on Saturday afternoon/evening? Sunday afternoon?Monday night? Whatever........ OTBC ;~)

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I found this article very interesting, along with some of the responses that the Guardian received (I hope you don''t mind me posting the links barclayendboy, I''m not trying to steal your thunder!);

A football director responds - http://football.guardian.co.uk/news/thewayyouseeit/0,9206,1555390,00.html

A former agent responds; http://football.guardian.co.uk/news/thewayyouseeit/0,9206,1555475,00.html

Some fans responses (including one of ours!); http://football.guardian.co.uk/news/thewayyouseeit/0,9206,1555466,00.html

What can we do about it? There are some ideas in the fan''s responses, but in my view it is the FA and FIFA who have let the fans down, and we (as in fans from all clubs) should lobby them. Unfortunately the FA is spineless in dealing with the likes of David Dein who can run rings around them, so the best way of making an impact is financially. If people stop turning up to Monday night games and stop watching on Sky, things WILL change!

The rot started way before Bosman, it started with the removal of the salary cap and became significantly worse with the advent of the Premiership. The FA was set up to stop individuals making large amounts of money from the game (as well as govern the rules), but has let us get to the situation where over 50% of clubs outside the Premiership have gone bust (and most of the other 50% are terrified it will happen to them) whilst agents can make millions on a single transfer, and Premiership club car parks are filled with Ferraris and Porsches. It is an absolute disgrace.

When you look at the situation at other clubs, it makes me proud of our board at Norwich. They do listen, how many chairmen from other clubs would talk face to face with supporters after a match, especially after such a dismal performance? How many other clubs have genuine fans on the board, who frequently travel and sit with fans at matches? Do you guys agree, or feel we are being ripped off by our club too?

Whatever your views on that, perhaps we should all take more of an interest in the NCFC supporters trust http://www.ncst.org.uk/.

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yup, hard to argue with any of that excellent article. It''s had to change one''s behaviour when it''s based on an emotional response though. Personally it doesn''t matter to me as much as it did when i was a kid and though I do 100% want promotion there''s a slight feeling that the fizzy league is a little more "real" whatever that means. A similar view was slagged in another thread as not being loyal, and not wanting the best for our club, but it''s hard to not take more pleasure from deciding on the day to go to burnley or somewhere, have a pint and not have to plan months in advance to get an overpriced ticket at some atmosphere vacuum called the vodaphone stadium or something. I guess I now realise that it really doesn''t matter as much, if we win or lose it''s not life or death, football is an escape from real life not real life itself. Guess I''m not as much of a real fan anymore ;-) Doesn''t prevent some general foaming at the mouth with the useless refs in this division though!

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Football is now "Sports Entertainment" not "Sport".  It is run by businessman at Clubs, Players, their agents and Sky with no consideration for the fans.  Most of the people involved in football are just looking to make money and they are looking make most of their money from one source, us fans!

Fans are no longer just fans they are now consumers and they need to start enforcing their powers as consumers, it''s the ONLY way things will change.  Unhappy with the cost of a Prem Plus subscription?  Don''t pay it!  Unhappy with the cost of Sky?  Don''t pay it!  Unhappy with Ticket Prices?  Don''t pay it!  Unhappy with your CanariesWorld service?  You guessed it, stop paying for it!  If you went to IKEA and bought a flat-pack wardrobe for £500, only to get it home and discover it had bits missing, would you except thatas satisfactory?  No you wouldn''t but we let a sometimes substandard and overpriced priced product get away with ripping us off for the fear of being disloyal when it has no loyalty to us! 

I guarantee that the price of Sky Sports would plummet if we all boycotted the service and refused to pay.  It''s simple, we are now consumers and we have to exercise our powers accordingly.

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[quote]Just four replies to this thread that rather sums up the journo''s point doesn''t it? We all bleat on about the odd £2m here or there, sack the manager, loyal supporters, my opinion is better than yours...[/quote]

I''m with you, I am surprised this thread has not generated more interest considering how opinionated we on this board are.  Also I would have thought some of the more cerebral posters like Yankee etc would have had something to add.

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Football is simply a business nowadays and like most modern business Brand seems to be at the root of it all.  Create the brand that appeals to the buying masses and the product itself becomes irrelevant and tertiary at best.   Fighting this perpetual bombardment of propaganda, and it is propaganda that most governments envy, of Brand Football is almost futile as your defences and common sense are worn down by repeated messageof the best league in the world, the best players, most exciting games etc.   The truth is the prem league is home to over-paid averagely performing ''stars'' where footballing skills takes second place to kick and rush football,  media endorsements and corporate opportunities.   

Look at the BMW 3 series - as a car it is currently far far inferior to even a Ford Mondeo on just about every measure excpt public appeal.  Yet the beemer out sells the latter month in and month out.  People assume the beemer has class and ability whereas it is actually inferior and over priced yet the brand appeal means that it appeals despite being one of the most common cars on the road.  Its the same with football, linking the emotional heart to the game for most fans with increasingly bizzare ''opportunities'' for a fan to associate themselves with the club and pray at the footballing altar.  There are far more worthwhile opportunities out there but we are all, to some degree or other, taken in by the hype.       

NCFC are slightly better placed with fans at the heart of the board but the same spin even reaches here. 

Creation of the football ''brand'' is the evil exterior that is suffocating the superb grass roots product we all want to enjoy.    

 

OTBC

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Yes I''m in total agreement ZLF. We are the ''gullible victims'' of  that highly infectious & contagious disease; "mustav branditis".

Never mind the quality! Feel the Width!  ;~)

 

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Superb article from The Guardian -well done Barclay End Boy!

We all seem to be largely in agreement. For me, the advent of Sky and The Premiership was the worst thing to happen to football particularly at the top level. Yes, attendances have rocketed from the levels of the late 1980''s but I feel they would have risen anyway with the decline of hooliganism and all seater stadiums. Sky fuelled a massive inflation in all football related costs such as ticket prices, wages and transfer fees.

There is so much hype from the media about ''The Premiership'' and its'' top 2 or 3 clubs in particular, it''s ridiculous! Five Live and Talk Sport know nothing else other than Chelsea, Arsenal and Man Utd (with Liverpool last season by virtue of their Champions League win). Earlier this season Chelsea fined some foreign defender for slagging off Mourhino (or however you spell his name) and Five Live organised an email kind of competition hyping up the whole issue into a ''major story'' and every few minutes for the next hour or so of their breakfast show kept reading out the pathetic responses from so called Chelski fans each trying to out do the other in terms of supporting the boss.

I listened to most of the Saturday morning show on Talk Sport several months ago when that Ashley Cole tapping up story broke. That odious little man Andy Townsend went ON, and ON and ON and ON for literally hours! Nothing else was discussed, it was absolutely sickening.

However, I have often cited (on this message board), the words of Mike Parry from Talk Sport who has said that ''football is going to hell in a handcart'' (because of it''s soaring costs) yet no club is prepared to tackle this issue for fear of losing ground. Clubs survive under mountains of debt yet no creditor ever seems to demand their capital back. Instead clubs go into administration enabling them to effectively default on unsecured creditors and simply ''restructure debts''. Either that or they prostitue themselves in front of dodgy foreign investors (remember Liverpool desparately tried to get the Thailand deal?) to get more money in.

Sooner or later though, something WILL happen, the current madness can''t continue indefintely.

A ''big'' club will do a Leeds but this time not escape. The wake up call will be when Sky finally realise that they don''t have to keep paying more and more each time the contract is renewed.

BUT, are we at Norwich TRULY any different from the rest of this gravy train? I honestly don''t think we are, it''s all about scale. Take a look at our end of year accounts for the last three years and we have made ''trading losses'' on a substantial scale. Why? Because we have desparately splashed money on players wages and transfers in an attempt to get into The Premiership. That together with the stadium rebuilding has meant that are now saddled with an £18MILLION long term debt. Yes I know many of you will say ...it''s prudent, well managed, within budget'' etc. etc.but in essence we are no different to anyone else.

Finally, on the subject of ''we are so lucky because we have genuine fans on the board'' issue, is that really so? I certainly admired Munby for going into the fans at Stoke but truth is we have NO supporters elected representative on the Board or any plans for doing so (as far as I''m aware). Smith effectively took over the club because she had money. Would an ordinary Delia Smith with no TV, media, celebrity trappings ever have been invited on to the Board simply because ....''she was a fan''? I think not. NCISA, the SCG nor the NC Supporters Trust have ANY representative on our Board.    

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excellent thread and links to the thread which someone posted a couple of weeks ago asking whether we actually want to be in the premiership.

We''re certainly fooling ourselves if we think Norwich is any different. We, along with most of the rest think short term, trying to buy our way up on whatever scale that might be. I have complete respect for outfits like Crewe who bounce between the leagues but consistently produce quality players but refuse to lower themselves to the game that the rest of us play. Where is the glory in buying your way out of trouble?

In ten years time the picture will be different. Or at least I hope so. I don''t know where Norwich will be then but I do know I would rather be supporting a club run like AFC Wimbledon than having a rich benefactor pouring shed loads of cash in for short term gain. Hopefully the big clubs will have pushed off to play in a European Super League, leaving the rest to return to a more competitive and exciting and unpredictable league system.

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I''ve just got back from a weeks holiday in Ireland and was sad to see this thread has slipped away into the depths of the board, although there are a few excellent posts since I last looked.

It seems to me that the Internationals last week can be viewed in a positive light, even by you england fans! Last week a plucky group of underdogs beat a bunch of overpaid pre-madonnas who went out believing they had won a match before they took to the field, after all their wallets were so much fatter they deserved to win. Before the game there were reports of manicures and orders of tomato less salads - pathetic. In other games well organised and motivated Irish and Scots teams got good results through motivation and organisation. This is not an Anti-England rant - although I''m happy to go on record as a Scotland fan, it is merely a sign of the way the game is going.

Two other sports deserve mention here too. The media has been full of comparison of Cricket and football. Sportsmanship, healthy rivalry, decency all these have been mentioned. Is it any wonder that the cricketers are seen as decent role models? Suddenly people are flocking back to the game attracted by the lack of cynicism. Of course how long term this proves to be after the end of the Ashes awaits to be seen. I also admire the Irish sports of Hurling and Gaelic football. These sports are part of the local communities, played on a county basis, everyone follows their local team and get''s involved - compare this with the fans of the big premiership football teams you know. They are fiercely competitive and the passion is there for everyone to see. I think we still have a strong element of this at many clubs outside the top flight but our passion for genuine sport is being diluted all the time ..... you can''t buy love but you can buy success - compare that with other sports and then ask yourself how healthy is the SPORT of football?

 

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