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In The Interests Of Balance Re.Foreign Owners.

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[quote user="Big Vince"]I would suggest that Wynnie is more influential than Delia [/quote]You don''t agree Delia has a veto then Vinnie?

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="komakino"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="komakino"]We''ll agree to disagree, but don''t get your hopes up about getting promoted any time soon. I''m in business and only a complete fool would take accounts as gospel. It can paint a 1,000 pictures and be interpreted in various ways.[/quote]No we won''t. You were wrong. The "sources" you claimed to have, if they existed, were wrong. Admit all that and I will happily agree with you. But not otherwise.

Not being bullied by you! If any posters have sources or others they should be respected. You are fully entitled not to believe them, but abuse is not acceptable on this platform or anywhere else.

[/quote][/quote]Abuse? What abuse? Bullying? What bullying? I have been perfectly polite in explaining in what ways you have been wrong. I will happily respect posters who have reliable sources. Equally I will point out where posters and/or their sources are wrong. If you seriously equate being politely told you are in error with bullying and abuse then you must have led a very sheltered existence.[/quote]

You are bullying because you are not respecting the other persons point of view. You don''t have to agree with it as is your right and as I''ve said, we''ll agree to disagree, but you come back with ''you were wrong'' as you simply cannot accept something which you do not believe is true.

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Mainly because it isn’t true. It makes absolutely no sense. I’ll ask again, if it is the case that Delia has a veto, what is the point in a vote?

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Komakino has a history of making stuff up about Delia. One of my favourites was how she tried to invest in the binners but sheepshanks apparently sent her packing! My sources call bullcarp and I won''t be bullied out of believing them.....

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[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="Big Vince"]I would suggest that Wynnie is more influential than Delia [/quote]You don''t agree Delia has a veto then Vinnie?[/quote]

Perhaps Delia would care to publish the minutes of all the board meetings since 1996 so we can all find out who did what.

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[quote user="Big Vince"][quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="Big Vince"]I would suggest that Wynnie is more influential than Delia [/quote]You don''t agree Delia has a veto then Vinnie?[/quote]

Perhaps Delia would care to publish the minutes of all the board meetings since 1996 so we can all find out who did what.[/quote]Why didn''t you ask her at the AGM?

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[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="Big Vince"][quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="Big Vince"]I would suggest that Wynnie is more influential than Delia [/quote]You don''t agree Delia has a veto then Vinnie?[/quote]

Perhaps Delia would care to publish the minutes of all the board meetings since 1996 so we can all find out who did what.[/quote]Why didn''t you ask her at the AGM? [/quote]

Because Ballsup put a cap on how many questions per attendee, silly.

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[quote user="Big Vince"][quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="Big Vince"][quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="Big Vince"]I would suggest that Wynnie is more influential than Delia [/quote]You don''t agree Delia has a veto then Vinnie?[/quote]

Perhaps Delia would care to publish the minutes of all the board meetings since 1996 so we can all find out who did what.[/quote]Why didn''t you ask her at the AGM? [/quote]

Because Ballsup put a cap on how many questions per attendee, silly.[/quote]How many questions did you attempt to ask?How many were you allowed to ask?What was the cap on your ability to ask questions?

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[quote user="TCCANARY"][quote user="Big Vince"][quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="Big Vince"][quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="Big Vince"]I would suggest that Wynnie is more influential than Delia [/quote]You don''t agree Delia has a veto then Vinnie?[/quote]

Perhaps Delia would care to publish the minutes of all the board meetings since 1996 so we can all find out who did what.[/quote]Why didn''t you ask her at the AGM? [/quote]

Because Ballsup put a cap on how many questions per attendee, silly.[/quote]How many questions did you attempt to ask?How many were you allowed to ask?What was the cap on your ability to ask questions?

[/quote]

The cap was one question per Coffin Dodger and so I asked one question and also told Delia to resign.

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[quote user="Big Vince"]The cap was one question per Coffin Dodger and so I asked one question...[/quote]Yes, but how many questions were normal people allowed?

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]It was quite clearly stated that artists could either ask two questions or one and paint a picture...[/quote]

Cardinal Peter Wolsey was the only artist in attendance and he was told by Ballsup to refrain from painting pictures and ask just one question. End of.

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Shame. He’s so articulate. Pretty sure the chap he was with fell asleep during his meandering ramble, at worst disrespectful but thoroughly understandable.

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Sheffield Wednesday''s recently released accounts show the potential effects of a foreign owner. From the Price of Football, "losses more than double to over £20 million in 2016/17 as promotion gamble backfires.""For every £100 of income last season paid out £125 in wages and £26 in transfer fee amortisation, taking player costs to 151% of income."They will need to cut back now if they are to avoid FFP.

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But that’s not exclusive to foreign owners Badger, British based owners do exactly the same.

This is a totally irrelevant discussion as has been clearly laid out our owners are here to stay and will be handed down to the next of kin, so why even bother with a thread like this?

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Indy "But that’s not exclusive to foreign owners Badger, British based owners do exactly the same.I agree that nationality of owners is largely irrelevant to the "sh*t or bust gamble" approach to club ownership, which is the main issue. However, it does imo reduce the likelihood of getting a benefactor rather than an investor and I was responding to the title of the thread .

This is a totally irrelevant discussion as has been clearly laid out

our owners are here to stay and will be handed down to the next of kin,

so why even bother with a thread like this"I''m less convinced by this point. There has been some dissatisfaction expressed with the current ownership - whilst this is partially understandable during a period when a club is being less successful, I fell that it is also partly fuelled by a naive belief that a simple change of ownership would be the solution to our current difficulties. The evidence for this belief is highly questionable at best, but the issues remains relevant whilst it is one that fuels discontent.

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After 21 years it might not be such a bad thing for a change in ownership, it might galvanise a new era!

It’s always a gamble in modern football, but as highlighted recently by Parma I believe, we aren’t immune to building up debt under the current owners, or any owners who might have an interest in this club. The nature of football means players demand such an over inflated wage that most clubs will always build debt.

To try and stay in the FFP model is to be praised, but reality will probably dictate we are now ranked below thirty other teams, yes argument can be made for both foreign or local owners, both good and bad, but the likelihood of success on a tight budget is lot less than money, look at the top of championship table.

We’ve had an element of success under a structure and leadership which is no longer here, we’re all waiting to see just how Balls and Webber perform, see if they can indeed match Bowkett & MacNally successful period on a tight budget, but it’s looking less likely looking at what’s coming next season.

This summer will no doubt bring some criticism in player sales, frustration from budgets, but ultimately we’ve got a limited attraction, budget and we’re also not that attractive proposition we once were a few seasons ago.

It’s all about opinions and how you view things, I worked in the oil & gas industry for over 30 years where things never stay still and top people were constantly challenged to improve safety, productivity and performance, maybe it’s just me who sees our old guard as a hindrance rather than a motivation to drive this great club forward.

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[quote user="Indy"]After 21 years it might not be such a bad thing for a change in ownership, it might galvanise a new era!

It’s always a gamble in modern football, but as highlighted recently by Parma I believe, we aren’t immune to building up debt under the current owners, or any owners who might have an interest in this club. The nature of football means players demand such an over inflated wage that most clubs will always build debt.

Financing debt means that there is less money available for current expenditure. It is unsustainable to continue to build significant debt which is not backed by assets. To try and stay in the FFP model is to be praised, but reality will probably dictate we are now ranked below thirty other teams, yes argument can be made for both foreign or local owners, both good and

bad, but the likelihood of success on a tight budget is lot less than

money, look at the top of championship table.

a.
I''m not sure where your figure comes from that we are ranked below 30 other clubs?b. Re the current table, it does not illustrate what you believe. I wrote the following on another thread about a week ago.
1. Cardiff''s net spend this

summer was about £3 million, with five of the eight players coming in

being free transfers.
2. Rather than being free spenders this year, Aston Villa''s net spend this summer was negative - MINUS £9.75 million. 3. Derby in fourth also have a negative spend - MINUS £9 million. 4. A look at the Championship table

shows two of the bottom three being Birmingham and Sunderland - both

with "rich foreign owners" as you describe them.
5. There are

obvious exceptions - e.g. Sunderland, S. Weds - but I would suggest that

the correlation with average attendances is probably stronger than the

nature of the ownership. Might be an interesting thesis for some of our

student fans?
http://www.transferleague.co.uk/
We’ve had an element of success under a structure and leadership which is no longer here, we’re all waiting to see just how Balls and Webber perform, see if they can indeed match Bowkett & MacNally successful period on a tight budget, but it’s looking less likely looking at what’s coming next season.

This summer will no doubt bring some criticism in player sales, frustration from budgets, but ultimately we’ve got a limited attraction, budget and we’re also not that attractive proposition we once were a few seasons ago.

It’s all about opinions and how you view things, I worked in the oil & gas industry for over 30 years where things never stay still and top people were constantly challenged to improve safety, productivity and performance, maybe it’s just me who sees our old guard as a hindrance rather than a motivation to drive this great club forward.I''m not sure that "staying still" describes our situation very well over the last few years - it has been a period of quite remarkable volatility. Football of course is about opinions, but business is essentially about the bottom line, which is far more objective.[/quote]

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Watching the BHA v Arsenal game and I think this topic sums it up.

Foreign ownership of Arsenal has seen very little success. And now, their manager/coach is coming under so much pressure as his team continues to flounder.

For all the magnificent things that Wenger has contributed while managing one of the countries real powerhouses, it look like his time is up.

The supporters will turn even more unless they can pull something out of the fire today.

Arsenal are perhaps a model club in respect of its finances whether building a brand new stadium and paying for it or buying low and selling high.

But that counts for nothing as fans see their team outplayed but a team fighting to avoid relegation.

And I think the majority shareholders at NCFC are in a similar position. Many see them as the saviours following the Chase era. Some think they are too special to really criticise.

But I wonder if next season pans out much as this one has, whether many of the flock will be calling for abdication to Tom. (Getting new owners isn''t as easy as some appear to think it is).

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[quote user="keelansgrandad"]Watching the BHA v Arsenal game and I think this topic sums it up.

Foreign ownership of Arsenal has seen very little success. And now, their manager/coach is coming under so much pressure as his team continues to flounder.

For all the magnificent things that Wenger has contributed while managing one of the countries real powerhouses, it look like his time is up.

The supporters will turn even more unless they can pull something out of the fire today.

Arsenal are perhaps a model club in respect of its finances whether building a brand new stadium and paying for it or buying low and selling high.

But that counts for nothing as fans see their team outplayed but a team fighting to avoid relegation.

And I think the majority shareholders at NCFC are in a similar position. Many see them as the saviours following the Chase era. Some think they are too special to really criticise.

But I wonder if next season pans out much as this one has, whether many of the flock will be calling for abdication to Tom. (Getting new owners isn''t as easy as some appear to think it is).[/quote]

Getting new owners is easy, especially if the current crop are willing to give it away, like they are with their nephew. I’m sure there would be plenty of interest at that value

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[quote user="Mad Steve"]I can’t believe that anyone with the best interests of the club would want the status quo to continue

The future is either hapless Nepotism Tom or a stinking rich Chinese owner even a 2 year old could work out what will happen if nepotism gets his hands on the club

Delia out stinking rich Chinese owner in[/quote]

Why hapless? What has he done that tells you that?   He is just an easy target and you and no-one else has any idea what he would be like as a majority shareholder if he becomes that at some time in the future.   Criticism is fine if there is a reason to criticise, but there isn''t in this case - it is just prejudice.  

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[quote user="Mad Steve"]Ok I will bite

Can you list his work experience, skills or anything that would suggest he has what it takes time run a company which if in the premier league could have an income in the hundreds of millions[/quote]"Ok I will bite" - I think I already did that [:D].  For your benefit, his experience comes from significant time of being on the board of a professional football club, generally reckoned as one of the top 30 clubs in the country.  If he inherits the shares, he will be well placed to carry on the ethos of the club as he will know it inside out.  I get that some people don''t like the idea, but those people have to accept that the shares in the club have to be owned by someone - and far better to be owned by someone who has the best interests of the club at heart, not some - in your words - "stinking rich" investor or speculator. 

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This topic seems too be plagued with the opinion of Tom. When I mentioned abdication to Tom it was if the current majority shareholders decided to sell their shares or indeed were hounded into selling them.

I proposed a scenario where the club, at this time next season, is in the same position. There would be increased calls for Delia and Michael to resign. We are having them at the moment so it would be obvious that the clamour would grow.

And there may well be people or organisations ready to buy those shares. Just like the owners of Birmingham.

And aware of the growing support for them to resign, many supporters would probably jump at the first offer.

If they did resign, I am pretty sure they would want to hand over the shares to Tom first. I am pretty sure they would want to give him first opportunity at running the club.

I have no preference for who owns the majority of shares in the club. As long as they are intent on being proper guardians of the club, they can be Chinese for all I care.

But I think it would be unfair for a campaign to start, probably with a fair amount of rudeness and spite, about the current shareholders without the acknowledgement that they are trying to run the club properly and successfully. Does anyone really believe they are trying to ruin the club?

My analogy was with the Arsenal situation. There will be a group who will be nasty and spiteful toward Wenger no matter what happens from now on. And I think it is probably in everyone''s interests at that club, if he did leave at the end of the season.

And the case may well be equally valid for Delia and Michael. But to automatically turn on Tom, who may well have different ideas on how the club runs, is already prejudiced and without foundation.

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