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Duncan Edwards

Our Obsession With Money

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https://duncanedwards8.wordpress.com/2018/03/12/money-moany-money/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

If someone could please make the link clickable?

It is quite long.....😉

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The problem is we have attracted a fair number of fans over the past decade. Fans who expect success pretty muc all the time. Who will turn out as a solid 40,000 at Wembley, but not fill the ground now.But we are not alone. Look at the attendance at Hull. Once out of the PL, as with Blackpool, the crowds have slipped away like their own tides, only it will take more than some lunar cycle to get them back. Yet the game was worth watching, the football was not that bad. But how many are actually there for the football. How many do you see at CR pecking away at the plastic Cuttle fish like budgies on speed, only looking up when the crowd lifts it''s voice ?For some folk the board and major shareholders are an easy target for their frustrations. Like a child gazing at the Xmas toy of the rich kid. ''Hinvestors'' (as they are called) are never hard faced business folk who don''t really give two sh its about the club''s supporters. No, they are kindly old uncle figures who will ruffle the collective hair (or not) of the supporters and hand over money, solely on the basis of benevolence.Twas ever thus, as my dear old great aunt''s parrot used to say. Just as a player is able to decide where to pass so a fan is able to express his or her thoughts on matters relating to the club. Though many seem to have the awareness of some old chap who has dozed of in the shed while listening to Radio Norfolk.And with the collective intellect of one hundred parrots will ask ''woz gorn on in traynin''..... why hent we got han hinvestor ?"Because to them, and many others..... it''s always someone else''s fault"

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"See, the reality is that the same people against this bond are largely the same people that are against the board"

Well, yeah. Colour me shocked that people who don''t think this board have enough money to fund the club aren''t blown over by them asking for a bunch of money from the fans to fund the club.

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Kingo, can I borrow that crayon to colour people who crave other folks money whilst clinging on with dear life to their own?

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[quote user="king canary"]"See, the reality is that the same people against this bond are largely the same people that are against the board"

Well, yeah. Colour me shocked that people who don''t think this board have enough money to fund the club aren''t blown over by them asking for a bunch of money from the fans to fund the club.[/quote]KC - would you be happy with someone like West Ham funding the club with loans to the club @7% p.a? Or do you think that they all do it for free?

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[quote user="king canary"]"See, the reality is that the same people against this bond are largely the same people that are against the board"

Well, yeah. Colour me shocked that people who don''t think this board have enough money to fund the club aren''t blown over by them asking for a bunch of money from the fans to fund the club.[/quote]There''s a surprise.... you finding another stick to beat the club with.Directors are not there to fund the club, they are there to manage to club - so stop endlessly whining about how bad it all is.

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🙄

See, the reality is that the same people against this bond are largely the same people that are against the board, and Delia Smith in particular, normally.

Is the full quote. If this needs explaining further, what I’m saying is that these people would be against pretty much anything that originated from the board because of their default position of being anti-Delia.

Much like people who are “against the board” and have been for years, telling us that change is needed and long overdue. There have been numerous changes to the board during this period but they really mean that they’re “against Delia Smith” but won’t say so because it would, in all likelihood, make them look a bit of a tit, so they hide behind “the board”.

And you kind of prove my point, “they int got enuff kite, we wotta git investment” - seek investment - “wull, wotterthee askin us for? They wotterbe payin forut” Genius.

Like I said, seek investment as long as it doesn’t have to come out of your pocket.

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So would you support a board at work if they failed to improve performance where it counted or downgraded your working conditions to the point where you lost people to your competitors?

My problem with this board & owners is not personal, it''s factual. They have made a right hash of it, despite the fact I''m sure they did not mean to and (this is the main issue I have) they will not accept or are looking for other investment / owners because they think they are the best this club will get and they are handing over to someone with no experience or money to invest.... it''s crap and I believe holding back this great club.

The prove will be in the performance of the 1st team... this year does not bode well (one more transfer window to judge the "revolution")

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“Directors are not there to fund the club“

In any other owner managed company, a shortfall in cash would have to be funded by the directors themselves or by looking at loans etc. Can’t really imagine any other companies trying to raise capital by asking their customers/fans.

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[quote user="Hoola Han Solo"]“Directors are not there to fund the club“

In any other owner managed company, a shortfall in cash would have to be funded by the directors themselves or by looking at loans etc. Can’t really imagine any other companies trying to raise capital by asking their customers/fans.[/quote]
Have you never heard of kickstarter etc? I think you''ll find what the club are currently trying to do, whilst new to football, will become more common.

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[quote user="Hoola Han Solo"]“Directors are not there to fund the club“

In any other owner managed company, a shortfall in cash would have to be funded by the directors themselves or by looking at loans etc. Can’t really imagine any other companies trying to raise capital by asking their customers/fans.[/quote]There is no ''shortfall'' per seThe club is looking to raise money to develop one part. This bond is no more than a loan ie guaranteed repayment and a defined interest payment. As it would appear to be at a lower rate than a commercial loan the board is exercising financial diligence.As it is open to anyone then the club cannot be castigated for "asking their customers/fans", and I''m not too sure what other companies have fans either.Still, if you need a stick this will have to do, I suppose.

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[quote user="Hoola Han Solo"]Well like others have said, I’m so fed up with Delia’s tenure as owners that I’ll whinge about a lot of things the board does.[/quote]Delia is NOT the owner. Just the majority shareholder, with her husband.The board is accountable to all shareholders (the owners) not whingers like yourself, so stop making up stuff just to make yourself look more ignorant than usual.

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With all due respect, you’re a cretin, hated by the majority of posters on this site, that has a bizarre habit of changing his avatar every few days.

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And by definition, Delia owns shares in the club, thereby making her at the very least a part-OWNER.

Very ignorant by a whinger such as yourself.

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[quote user="Hoola Han Solo"]With all due respect, you’re a cretin,

hated by the majority of posters on this site, that has a bizarre habit

of changing his avatar every few days.[/quote]

oh dear, hit a raw nerve have I ?Still, I am glad you asked the majority of posters on here, as I should hate to think folk thought you were making up stuff .... againAs the name change is not ''every few days''[quote user="Hoola Han Solo"]And by definition, Delia owns shares in the club, thereby making her at the very least a part-OWNER.

Very ignorant by a whinger such as yourself.[/quote]oh dearI should have lie down if I were you... you are getting angryPerhaps then read your own postyou know the bit where it said THE owner and the bit that now says "a part-OWNER." That is what I said earlier. Delia is not THE ownerAnd while you are there you might care to notice the word whinging something that you described your attitude as. I merely followed your lead.

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Football has ALWAYS been dominated by money from throwing coins into blankets to selling the first £5m player to being able to loan in young Gunn.

Money enables a club to be in a position to acquire the better players and therefore achieve the success the fans aspire to.

It needs to be handled well though.

Cloughie wasn''t averse to spending a bit.

John Bond bought a few good ''uns.

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If Delia isn''t the owner, why does she act like she is?
Sure, there are other shareholders, but she has the most shares, ergo, she can do what she likes with little to no opposition.
Whether her decisions are right or wrong...

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Enjoyed the piece Duncan, thanks.

The issue I have with the bonds is that the risk will be taken by the fans/investors yet the benefits, in as much as the assets will increase, will be taken by the shareholders.

It''s not unreasonable to expect that financing infrastructure spend, which will increase the value of a business, would ordinarily be provided (either through borrowing or self-funding) by those reaping the benefits of increased share value.

Having said that nobody is being pressured into buying the bonds and the risks are transparent.

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How would this be any different it it were from a bank or other financial institution ?

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HC - "The issue I have with the bonds is that the risk will be taken by the

fans/investors yet the benefits, in as much as the assets will increase,

will be taken by the shareholders."Not strictly true Hairy. The club is legally obliged to repay the loan unless it becomes insolvent. If this is the case, the shareholders will lose far more than the bond holders - I''d have thought that the club''s market value was tens of millions - even at a liquidation value. Bondholders will also gain 5-8% p.a. "reward" for the risk, so enjoy the benefits as well.

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[quote user="Hoola Han Solo"]With all due respect, you’re a cretin, hated by the majority of posters on this site, that has a bizarre habit of changing his avatar every few days.[/quote]I point out you were wrong about Delia being the owner, so you reply with the above - an insult and two liesI was happily posting in the spirit of the thread until you leapt in with the above, so stop trying to put the blame on me

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[quote user="Canary Wundaboy"]If Delia isn''t the owner, why does she act like she is?
Sure, there are other shareholders, but she has the most shares, ergo, she can do what she likes with little to no opposition.
Whether her decisions are right or wrong...
[/quote]

No, that is how some try to portray it, as it suits their agendaAs you have demonstrated with your unfounded claims ... or perhaps you have the boards minutes and recorded voting to handI am sure we would all like to read them so as to have your knowledge

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Anyway, Neppers Tom has been given the Green Light to be head of the whatever......and no complaints are apparent from the rest of the board in that decision........So contentment all around from the rest of the Director''s.......If they don''t see a problem with the handover of the reins to Neppers Tom - who are we to complain?....

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The difference between majority shareholders and owners is minimal in practice.

The fact is I stand by my belief that in the modern climate the owners do not have enough money to allow the club to be competitive. This bond does nothing but reinforce that for me.

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