Maddison 25M

[king canary 7,604]

@GJP

Yes, I think so.

[GJP 79]

I think he does a fair amount of short passing but I don''t think he offers the range that Leitner and Vrancic have shown.

[Van wink 2,994]

GJP wrote the following post at 28/03/2018 12:01 PM:

I think he does a fair amount of short passing but I don''t think he offers the range that Leitner and Vrancic have shown.

He put in a terrific pass for the England goal last night

[ricardo 7,385]

He''s in a whole different league to Vrancic or Lietner.

[greendoor 16]

Whether the price tag of £25m is correct or not I feel it is the general consensus that we will be looking to sell some of our most valuable assets this summer. So this being the case I wonder how much time will be spent negotiating the price.

When talking about figures of these proportions it is difficult for fans to appreciate the size of the sums of money being negotiated. A swing in favour of Norwich of £3.6m would be the equivalent of a £150 increase per season ticket assuming 24,000 ST sales.

The club need to stand up and get the absolute best price they can. I could never see them decreasing ST prices however I think when this amount of money is decided on in deals like this the fans should also see some of the benefits.

[GJP 79]

He did indeed but it was a low ball over a short-medium distance down the side of the defence. Great ball though.

But in general play Leitner and Vrancic open the pitch up more.

[hogesar 9,658]

[quote user="ricardo"]He''s in a whole different league to Vrancic or Lietner.[/quote]

Obviously in overall terms, not in terms of range of passing necessarily. I said to someone on here before (King, I think) that Maddison isn''t keen to play the long-range balls over the top of the defence etc and that''s where Vrancic was useful for us last game.

[ron obvious 1,502]

It''s an interesting conundrum. If we were in the Prem. then he''s the sort of player we''d be desperate to keep, but he won''t get us promoted to the Prem. by himself. So would it be better to sell him & get a few top class Champs. players in? And would they necessarily bring success?

I suspect our only realistic way forward is to cash in & continue with our plan to develop young players, in the manner of Jamal. Not sure it would be popular though (& inevitably lead to accusations of Delia trousering the cash etc.)

[BroadstairsR 2,163]

Just keep your fingers crossed that he doesn''t pick up a seripou injury between now and the break.

[BroadstairsR 2,163]

"seripou?" He''s our new French striker .

Serious.

[king canary 7,604]

@GJP

Suppose it depends how you define range. I don''t mean range in terms of distance, more in terms of the type of passes, playing them on the move, playing them at speed etc.

I''ll maybe give yoou Vrancic but I''m not sure on Leitner. I''ve seen lots of neat and tidy short passing from him but I''ve not really seen him open teams up with his passing in the way Maddison does.

[Mike 2]

I know it''s reality but really can not get excited or pleased about a £25m starting point, meaning that we will not be watching, a once in a "blue moon" talent grace the hallowed turf.

I hope he is here next year at least. I go to watch great footballers and hopefully a successful team.

If he does go, that is our two best players not here next year.

Not convinced the money will be used wisely either. Oh well hope I am wrong.

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,219]

At the top level set pieces often determine games.

I have seen a study referred to of recent world cups with a figure around 45%.

An ability to score directly, place into good areas repeatedly, take accurate flat-delivery high-pace corners is priceless (to some degree irrespective of other qualities).

For context I believe his other qualities are top level in any case. The ability to win cheap free kicks is a fine skill for example.

Maddison has several weapons. Rare. Valuable.

English, young, will get better, many of his weapons are repeatable at a higher levels.

As they say in the antiques trade (when assessing value):

‘ find me another one’.

Parma

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

I seem to remember a long ball with seconds left at home vs 1p5wich which led to a goal. It was the right long pass at the right time.

Maddison is going to join a very exclusive club of players who leave Norwich with the goodwill of the supporters behind them and best wishes for his future. He deserves this for not only keeping us in the Championship this season but also for his exceptional attitude.

[coops 0]

When this lad leaves we are in big trouble. We are so reliant on him it’s frightening. Like the days of Huckerby the only genuine quality player on our books. Enjoy him now as he will go right to the top. NCFC not only need to get the right money for him but equally important is how to spend the money if they spend any at all. Also don’t want to do a Spurs ie the Bale money and buy quantity over quality.

[Mello Yello 2,289]

The thing I like about Madders is, that even when he''s kicked, hacked, tackled heavily, fouled consistently, whacked or thwacked.......He just gets up, dusts himself down and carries on......No rolling around screamin'' an'' squealin'' feigning injury or holding up imaginary red cards to the ref.......True Pro.......

£25million ?......That''s about 5 Colney upgrades........

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,219]

Coops,

If you refer to Finance threads of a few months ago, it would be far more accurate to state that we would be in big trouble if he doesn’t get sold.

His incredible emergence is the Father Christmas that Nutella prayed for.

£25m is the magic number (£23.5m) stated in those threads. Even 6 months ago this looked impossible. Trying to find that kind of net profit from other sales and costs would be difficult and incredibly painful.

The Academy bond principle is built on dreams of finding a Maddison to sell.

Parma

[Guest]

Has it ever been any other way Parma?

The club was never in a position to fight off other clubs attention for our players.

The outcry when we sold Ron Davies to Southampton, a team who had just left the division we were in, didn''t stop us selling on a whole host of players, whether through the youth ranks or profit making on their original transfer fee.

The Supporters Club used to have to buy players for us and our club record fee for buying was still £40,000 by 1972.

We have contested in the expensive signings arena but our record there is not great.

There is no guarantee we will ever produce a marquee academy player who brings the club financial security because they may well have been sold on before they reach their potential.

Or even worse, we may never produce anyone that good.

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,219]

It is different Nonno di Keelan...

Previously such emergency sales were somewhat slept-walked into. There has never been such a dramatic disparity between the huge wealth and sudden, overwhelming restructuring imperatives that we are seeing now.

It is the success that kills you (these days).

Parma

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,219]

On a positive note, the incredible emergence of Maddison - excellent scouting, negotiation, nurturing, coaching, freedom note - does indeed amortise basically all of the previous well-founded fears:

http://services.pinkun.com/forums/pinkun-forums/cs/forums/1/3584076/ShowPost.aspx#3584076

This is what an Academy can provide, it only takes one Maddison (and some Ruddys, Howsons, Murphy’s et al obvs) to bridge painful financial chasms.

Caveat emptor: ‘find me another one’

Parma

[king canary 7,604]

Interesting Parma but only one of those players is a product of the academy.

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,219]

Precisely the point King.

In this case - and given contemporary, extreme financial realities (vid Keelan) - even a miracle £25m man from nowhere (nominally attributed to the Academy for argument’s sake), was only around half of the total shortfall that had to be amortised.

Parma

[CANARYKING 637]

If he goes for £25m how much do we owe Coventry ?

[Hairy Canary 699]

Difficult to guess but if it''s 20% of the profit then a £25m sale would mean around £4.5m due to Coventry.

City 1st is in the know for contracts and fees so he should be able to be more precise

[BroadstairsR 2,163]

The original cost of Madisson (£3.5m?) will be deducted as their share will be placed upon the profit we actually made.

As in an above posting, it seems to have been a complicated deal with certain add-ons apparently. Difficult to assess where these stand.

Coventry were no fools they did not sell themselves short. They knew they had a sought after gem and gained a deal whereby they had him for the remainder of that season with add-ons afterwards.

They got themselves out of some financial plight at the time.

As with all football deals, not all is revealed.

[ron obvious 1,502]

In case you missed it, I''ll repost:

Regarding Coventry''s cut, this link purports to spill the beans:

https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/football/football-news/how-much-coventry-city-could-14465678

but is actually as clear as mud. Looks like an initial £2.5m (maybe) with more to follow (& who pays that?). Confusing.

[sgncfc 1,227]

Maddison should already be a full England international and going to Russia. He is 21, not 18. Lewis Cook came on as a sub against Italy - he''s 21, and nowhere near the player Maddison is. If he was German or Italian he would already be a regular international and the man the team is built around.

The market is quoting £40m for Watford''s Doukore this summer; £30m for sicknote Wilshire. Those fees will all rise before August.

He is under contract and happy here - we don''t have to sell yet. £25m would be an absolute steal and all 20 PL clubs would comfortably pay that - we need to get much more than that from the top 6 plus loads of add ons. He is much more than twice the player Jacob Murphy was.

This boy is the nearest thing to Beckham since Beckham - he is better than Alli; better than anyone who currently plays for England in midfield or as a 10. And he just keeps getting better and better.

Webber is no fool, he must realise just what we have here. £25m is almost derisory.

I have been going to CR since 1964. Maddison is the most all round gifted player I have ever seen wearing a Norwich shirt.

[Hairy Canary 699]

Thanks for that Ron, I had missed it personally.

Coventry are saying it could end up upwards of £6m for them and assuming the initial £2.5m is about right then a potential £3.5m to be paid by someone. Not sure who would pay for the PL appearances and England caps add-ons. I would imagine that we would look to pass that on in any sale. As you say still not clear but gives a much better idea!

[king canary 7,604]

"If he was German or Italian he would already be a regular international and the man the team is built around."

Errrm, what? No he wouldn''t.

[TIL 1010 4,738]

£25 million and he will be gone as that will fill an awful lot of holes in the finances even allowing for the highly likely departures off the payroll of others. The loss of parachute payments next season should not be under estimated in the big picture of revenue streams.