Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
lake district canary

Which is it?

Recommended Posts

From a distance I see two Norwich Cities.  The one that is financially stable, progressive, forward looking, investing in young players and a possession based/technical game that will evolve into something we can all be proud of challenging at the top end each season - and the other - a club that is going to sell it''s best players at the drop of a hat to keep our finances in order, which will mean any progress will be stifled and an inevitable struggle to stay in the championship. So which is it?  Time will tell of course, but it seems to me that somewhere in the middle is probably likely - a good technical team, lots of energy from the young nature of the squad, competing well, improving in attack, but not enough to get promoted.  Is there such a thing as mid-table success??  [:^)]  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
I can see a book title here.

How about A Tale of Two Cities?

I doubt Delia will ever let the finances go out of control. So I guess it is City B.

City B used to play in the old Norfolk and Suffolk League of course. But I doubt we will sink that low.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There is such a thing as mid-table success. For us that mid-table would be in the Premier League. For Burton it would be mid-table in the Championship.

The only way mid-table in this league becomes a success for us is if we get relegated to League One.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"How about a Tale of Two Cities?"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of

wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it

was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the

season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of

despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were

all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way – in

short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its

noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for

evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only.Apples

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mid -table success. Isn''t that what we have laughed at Ipswich for over the last 15 years?

The odd season putting up half a challenge, the odd season closer to relegation, but fundamentally mired and stagnating in midtable, driving attendances down.

The problem is once you get sucked into that routine, its hard to get out of, especially when the rest of the league is getting clogged up with more & more money. Even if we strike lucky with a gem from Germany, or the Academy, it wont be long until they are then sold, because thats what we will be relying on.

Put like that it all sounds pretty bleak.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sell our best players? By that you mean the one that somehow we managed to pluck from under the noses of a lot of bigger clubs,who has turned out to be so good that holding on to him was not going to happen.

The other ''good'' players being ones that wanted to leave-Pritchard and Howson- and a centre forward who had had his better days and wasn''t scoring many goals.The others,Ruddy and co, were a cost cutting exercise that made sense at the time.

As for the rest of the squad, Gunn and Leitner are loans and probably not here next season, I can''t think of anyone that other clubs would be clamouring to buy. The only two that might be worth anything substantial are Klose,who is not having that good a time at present and we do have a ready made replacement in Raggett or Oliveira,who once again is not producing goals or performance and quite frankly a vast number of supporters would gladly see him go.

Norwich has never really been in this position before where they have had such a hot and valuable property. Apart from the entire team at Wolves(all bar a couple of players we all know maybe) and the young lad at Fulham - Sessy something or other-there aren''t that many stand out individual players.

We have managed without Johnson,Howson,Pritchard and Jerome and we will do so without Maddison,Gunn and even Tettey.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Interesting you seem to have totally forgotten Jacob Murphy.

Yes we have managed but we''ve obviously gone backwards.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="king canary"]Interesting you seem to have totally forgotten Jacob Murphy.

Yes we have managed but we''ve obviously gone backwards.[/quote]

Yes I had forgotten him. I guess he would have been a transfer for the money he generated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="Grumpy"]We have managed without Johnson,Howson,Pritchard and Jerome and we will do so without Maddison,Gunn and even Tettey.[/quote]First time I''ve heard of almost goalless, uninspring, dire and boring football being described as "managed" unless you''ve missed ot "to avoid relegation"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Making Plans"][quote user="Grumpy"]We have managed without Johnson,Howson,Pritchard and Jerome and we will do so without Maddison,Gunn and even Tettey.[/quote]First time I''ve heard of almost goalless, uninspring, dire and boring football being described as "managed" unless you''ve missed ot "to avoid relegation"[/quote]

I would hazard at a guess that up until the defeat at home to Sheff Utd you would have probably been as optimistic as me and think that we might make the playoffs. Hardly avoiding relegation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Making Plans"][quote user="Grumpy"]We have managed without Johnson,Howson,Pritchard and Jerome and we will do so without Maddison,Gunn and even Tettey.[/quote]First time I''ve heard of almost goalless, uninspring, dire and boring football being described as "managed" unless you''ve missed ot "to avoid relegation"[/quote]

Assuming that you actually go to the games you must dread Saturdays

I have to say that I actually look forward to them but I must confess that I have all to often been disappointed but by individual performances rather than a collective one. Murphy and Oliveira being the main culprits.

How could you not be impressed with the likes of Gunn,Zimmerman,Lewis,Reed,Leitner,Vrancic,Trybull and the potential of Hernandez,without even mentioning Maddison.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Grumpy"][quote user="Making Plans"][quote user="Grumpy"]We have managed without Johnson,Howson,Pritchard and Jerome and we will do so without Maddison,Gunn and even Tettey.[/quote]First time I''ve heard of almost goalless, uninspring, dire and boring football being described as "managed" unless you''ve missed ot "to avoid relegation"[/quote]

Assuming that you actually go to the games you must dread Saturdays

I have to say that I actually look forward to them but I must confess that I have all to often been disappointed but by individual performances rather than a collective one. Murphy and Oliveira being the main culprits.

How could you not be impressed with the likes of Gunn,Zimmerman,Lewis,Reed,Leitner,Vrancic,Trybull and the potential of Hernandez,without even mentioning Maddison.[/quote]
Ignoring the others, because I''ve watched Reed play and he is crap.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
We''ve seen flashes from all of those players but not consistent production.

Zimmerman is a great example- he''s got a great attitude and puts his all into games but he was pretty rotten against QPR and has put in some absolute stinkers this season. He''s fine but nothing special.

All in all I think we''ve unsurprisingly bought in a bunch of midtable championship players considering our budget.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Trouble is Grumpy, only 5 of those 9 are likely to be here at the start of next season. The way its looking, we need another 7 or 8 players: 1 or 2 GKs, a right back, a centre half, 1 DM, 1 AM and 2 strikers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I would agree on 3 of them certainly but it is not clear yet on the future of the others. We do have a GK coming back from loan who I think will be an able replacement and there are 3 MF players to return who one would think can come up to the mark.A RB and a Striker be my choice

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Signings have generally been good. The British players signed have all done well. I dont think Gunn nor Hanley would look out of place in a top 6 side. Husband was only purchased for cover.

The foreign signings are slightly harder to judge as they need time. But even so, Vrancic has been MOTM quality on several occasions, as has Trybull. Zimmerman is a fans favourite. Stiepermann has covered multiple positions and as a utility player no complaints.

Srbeny has only made 8 appearances.

I suppose if youre determined to be negative you can put whatever spin on it you like. Am i putting a positive spin on it? Probably. But then im a Norwich fan who would rather be positive than negative. And im certainly not one of the few posters who must have such a long list of personal issues that the only way of releasing pent up emotion is to be consistently and without fail critical of the club they supposedly support (come on you Royals!)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
In fact if we could keep Reed for another season I would use him as a RWB/DM cover,making my priority a striker.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think that sums it up very well Hogesar.

If you go through the team as individuals,the only players that I can honestly say have disappointed me this season have been Murphy and Oliveira and there has been one or two indifferent performances from the likes of Husband and Stiepermann.

If you think some of the posters on here are forever critical then you should read the posts on a Saturday during the PInkun match reports by Bailey/Freezer.They are brutal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Piggy - your appraisal of the new signings would carry merit if you consider our expectations to be that of a lower end championship club.

Your comment about Vrancic is delusional. He has not had several MOM performances. Check the stats for when he plays. We’ve lost over 70% of the games he starts. How can you not see his flaws and weaknesses when it comes to championship football? You like to give the impression you have decent football knowledge, but unfortunately your continued over hype of Vrancic shows that’s very questionable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The thing is I in general agree that I''ve seen something from most of the individual players this season.

Gunn has been good in goal.

Hanley, Klose and Zimmerman have all looked solid defensively.

Lewis has broken through well.

Vrancic has improved as time has gone on, Trybull has been very good and Reed has had good games.

Murphy has been inconsistent but has scored and created goals.

Maddison has been the best player in the division at creating chances.

So why with all these individuals who have shown at least flashes of ability are we performing poorly?

This is where my skepticism around Farke comes in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="lincoln canary"]Piggy - your appraisal of the new signings would carry merit if you consider our expectations to be that of a lower end championship club.

Your comment about Vrancic is delusional. He has not had several MOM performances. Check the stats for when he plays. We’ve lost over 70% of the games he starts. How can you not see his flaws and weaknesses when it comes to championship football? You like to give the impression you have decent football knowledge, but unfortunately your continued over hype of Vrancic shows that’s very questionable.[/quote]

Give it a rest Lincoln.  Bare stats are meaningless.  Even I can see that Vrancic has adapted and improved his game this season, to go along with his undoubted vision, good passing and his dead ball ability. Key player for next season, whether you like it  or not.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
Give it a rest Lincoln. Bare stats are meaningless. Even I can see that Vrancic has adapted and improved his game this season, to go along with his undoubted vision, good passing and his dead ball ability.

Key player for next season, whether you like it or not.

He might well have to be if Maddison goes. But I doubt he has the ability. And you are probably right that we are going to have to lump him.

Trouble is, he makes one good pass a game and people rave on about it. The time he takes on the ball, he should be doing it more often.

And he does not defend properly as he is so slow. Look at Fulham''s goals and see what he was doing in cover.

Zimmerman looks OK in a back three but definitely suspect when he is in a four.

Trybull and Leitner looked decent but there is no tempo to their game.

Hanley has been the stand out as he knows what his job is and does it fairly well.

Franke isn''t going to make it with us and Stiepermann doesn''t light any fires.

Hernandez has not had enough games but looks nice and direct but has to improve his delivery.

Srbeny looks well out of his depth and quite bemused at times as to his role.

And we can all see that Husband and Watkins are not up to the mark.

I would like us to keep Reed if possible as I think he has been asked to do several roles this season and been overshadowed by fan;s favourites Tettey and Pinto.

I am convinced, and of course it is only a theory, that our League 1 side would hammer this lot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="lincoln canary"]Piggy - your appraisal of the new signings would carry merit if you consider our expectations to be that of a lower end championship club.

Your comment about Vrancic is delusional. He has not had several MOM performances. Check the stats for when he plays. We’ve lost over 70% of the games he starts. How can you not see his flaws and weaknesses when it comes to championship football? You like to give the impression you have decent football knowledge, but unfortunately your continued over hype of Vrancic shows that’s very questionable.[/quote]

Give it a rest Lincoln.  Bare stats are meaningless.  Even I can see that Vrancic has adapted and improved his game this season, to go along with his undoubted vision, good passing and his dead ball ability. Key player for next season, whether you like it  or not.

 

[/quote]

Bare stars meaningless? So it’s just coincidnence that over a course of a season we lose far more often than we win when Vrancic starts?

Then If you look at the games without Vrancic starting, The pendulum swings and we win more often than lose. Still just a coincidence?

What did you think of the slack awarness from Vrancic (and Tettey) for both Fulham goals he other day? That’s the thing you see, people only remember the pretty stuff he does on the ball. He’s got abillity, but he’s not consistently effective for his league. He’s easy to play against - as the stats suggest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree with most of what Grandad says of our new players this season;

Gunn - an undoubted success, but can''t see him staying

Husband - a back up, not good enough to be first choice

Hanley - very solid, looks good in a 4 or 5 man defence

Zimmermann - good in a 5, not so good in a 4 - needs Klose

Franke - shell shocked by the physical side of the Championship

Trybull - very good, I''m concerned he might be injury prone

Leitner - classy on the ball, another one who might be injury prone

Vrancic - no doubt he''s a good passer, but not physical or quick enough

Stiepermann - can''t see him as first choice in any position

Reed - good at most things

Watkins - so disappointing, came with great expectations

Hernandez - lots of potential, very good in the Reading game, but need to see more of him to tell if that was a one off

Srebny - jury''s out for me, doesn''t look to have the quality needed

Raggett / Edwards - not seen enough to know

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Not much to argue with there Woodman, although I think Vrancic can be useful when paired with a Tettey/Trybull type and when we play a back 3 as he has more cover in behind to make up for his lack of mobility at times.

Looking at all of those names though it does slightly put paid to the idea I''ve seen from a few that Farke is having work with someone else''s players who don''t suit his system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="TIL 1010"]Hogesar and Grumpy have both failed to mention the merits of Watkins.[/quote]
Who has been poor this season, to the point that i''d forgotten about him..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="lincoln canary"]Piggy - your appraisal of the new signings would carry merit if you consider our expectations to be that of a lower end championship club.

Your comment about Vrancic is delusional. He has not had several MOM performances. Check the stats for when he plays. We’ve lost over 70% of the games he starts. How can you not see his flaws and weaknesses when it comes to championship football? You like to give the impression you have decent football knowledge, but unfortunately your continued over hype of Vrancic shows that’s very questionable.[/quote]
He has been the best player on the pitch in a few games this season. I do however, agree, that like all players that play at this level, he has weaknesses. However i''d like to know what you think they are? His passing can''t be in doubt. Since you''re using stats i''ll do the same and point out his tackles / interception rate is good (best in midfield bar Trybull), so he must read the game well too. Aerially he wins more than most of our other central midfielders (all bar Trybull too, actually). The main weakness I see in terms of Vrancic is his mobility. So it is important that whoever plays next to him can get around the pitch.
But overall the positives out-weigh the negatives pretty dramatically when you take into account his ability to play a ball in behind, over the top of the defence which i''ve yet to see from anyone else in the team. Again, only Leitner (small sample of data) and Maddison have more key passes per game than he does.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cant argue with much of those opinions. If we can keep Leitner, I think him and McLean will be the ones that might make the team tick.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...