Capt. Pants 4,092 Posted March 10, 2018 With a maximum threshold set at £5m and Colney costing £3.5m (min) I can''t see how the club can invest the £1.5m to turn it back to £5m without asset stripping. It relies on the club getting back to the Premiership. Very risky, especially for the club as well.I''m out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Van wink 2,994 Posted March 10, 2018 I still want to know if Tom promises to give me my hard earned back in five years time. Maybe I’ll buy a solar panel! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Making Plans 929 Posted March 10, 2018 So every penny of the £25m+ that we get for Maddison will be reinvested 100% in new players then?Don''t hold your breath. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icecream Snow 761 Posted March 10, 2018 [quote user="norfolkngood"]i will not invest and the Reason is that ( in my opinion ) the shareholders / owners should be able to afford this but are unwilling to fund this themselves £3.5 million is nothing to put into a football club as a one off i imagine a lot of owners put that in every season if not a lot more that''s my opinion not trying to put people off and best of luck to those that wish to invest and i hope you get the 25 % bonus !!![/quote]They don''t need to.All the foreign investors that Delia''s been refusing to talk to will buy all the bonds. Because if they can''t afford 3.5 million at 5% return, then they certainly can''t afford to buy a club.Because all those investors really exist, right? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Badger 2,389 Posted March 10, 2018 [quote user="Making Plans"]So every penny of the £25m+ that we get for Maddison will be reinvested 100% in new players then?Don''t hold your breath.[/quote]No chance! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Badger 2,389 Posted March 10, 2018 [quote user="Van wink"]I still want to know if Tom promises to give me my hard earned back in five years time. Maybe I’ll buy a solar panel![/quote]As far as I''m aware the club is legally obliged to pay the sum back unless it is insolvent, in which case investors could potentially lose all their investment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capt. Pants 4,092 Posted March 10, 2018 It''s a bit concerning that we have a player worth over £20m, probably a few others worth say £10m, that the club can''t afford £3.5m. This should have been done a couple of years back. I wouldn''t want to risk more than £500 and at that amount the return, even a 25% bonus, isn''t worth the risk. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Badger 2,389 Posted March 10, 2018 Agree Capt. Pants, it should have been done years ago, but it doesn''t mean that it''s wrong to do it now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hoola Han Solo 448 Posted March 10, 2018 My question would be, why are the owners not footing this £3.5m bill? Isn’t Delia meant to be a super fan? Instead she’s asking for for unsecured loans! Basically, the owners don’t want the risk of losing any money they loan the club, so are passing that risk off to Norwich City supporters. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vos 155 Posted March 10, 2018 Indy mentions that financial institutions would charge a higher interest rate. Quite correct albeit that all the major banks ceased to lend new money to football clubs some 25 years ago - with perhaps the odd exception. Most clubs are unable to build up any financial strength because when they do have a few pounds to spare the supporters will invariably demand it is spent on new players. So, as we are all aware, most financial support is in the form of " hot money "from the usual sources. As the Club have fairly stated, the bonds are high risk but not a bad little punt for the loyal supporter who has a bit of money lying about. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capt. Pants 4,092 Posted March 10, 2018 [quote user=" Badger"]Agree Capt. Pants, it should have been done years ago, but it doesn''t mean that it''s wrong to do it now. [/quote]Not saying it is wrong and it''s a hell of a lot better than sending round a begging bowl. Cat A status is vital to the club especially given its geographical location and I get why it''s desperate to keep it. Just not for me though what with cost of a season ticket and matchday expenses [B]. I think wifey would have a bit of a pout if I layed another £500 down with no guranteed return. But if it''s right for you then great and you''d could rightfully have a warm feeling for doing so. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lake district canary 4,518 Posted March 10, 2018 [quote user="Hoola Han Solo"]My question would be, why are the owners not footing this £3.5m bill? Isn’t Delia meant to be a super fan? Instead she’s asking for for unsecured loans! Basically, the owners don’t want the risk of losing any money they loan the club, so are passing that risk off to Norwich City supporters.[/quote]Or they are passing on an opportunity for fans to get a good return on some savings - at something that is not a huge risk. You can paint it whatever way you want of course, if you choose to, but there are ways of looking at this which demonstrate that this is an opportunity for fans to have some involvement in the future of the club...and at the end of the day, make a little bit of money too. Delia and the board could probably rustle up the money between them, but then their money is probably tied up in stocks/shares and the like - those are the circles the better off live in - so it''s not as if they could just go down to the local building society or whatever and withdraw £1m or so just like that. They are all well off, without a doubt, but having a huge amount of ready cash is not something many people have - and if you have wealth, you make it work somewhere, either in property, or stocks and shares etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hoola Han Solo 448 Posted March 10, 2018 If they’re not willing to loan the club money they should not be owners of the football club. The owners are effectively asking for loans, albeit with interest, to plug the gap their mismanagement has done to our finances, without diluting any of their control. None of the investors will have any involvement in the decision making at the club. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norfolkngood 1,070 Posted March 10, 2018 My point was Delia bought this club many years ago the value of the club is a lot more than she paid she has a net wealth of lets just say 20 million i know some say 30 million but lets say 20 would it really hurt her to pay the 3.5 million ?she would still have 16.5 million to last out her years her wealth or money / assets will be passed to Tom anyway so the family are not losing out now i am am not saying people should not choose to do this if they want to and like people have said they will invest and make some money it is their choice But if you own a football club and you have a nice wealth yourself i think it is wrong to ask people without that wealth to make your club business / better and add value to it when you could just give the money to the club if you add 3.5 million to what she paid for her shares it is still a very good return on her money over the years the profit if she or Tom were to sell would be huge i know if i was a super fan and had 20 million wealth and had no family and was going to pass it on to my nephew i would just pay 3.5 million and be happy knowing i set up the club for years to come like i said that''s my opinion not trying to put people off just my reason not to invest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Branston Pickle 3,598 Posted March 10, 2018 I''m really not particularly interested in making a return, though interest rates are horrendous for savers so it is not a bad option. I do, however have an issue with those who seem to be taking some weird kind of ''moral'' stance about not taking up the option. By all means don''t do it if you can''t afford or don''t want to, that''s your choice, but coming over all preachy about it is a bit much. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lake district canary 4,518 Posted March 10, 2018 norfolkngood - The thing is, the money is easily gettable if we want it, without anyone coughing up anything - all we have to do is sell a player or two - maybe Maddison and use some of the £20 million plus we might get for him. £3.5m is peanuts in a transfer fee of £20m. The point is therefore not so much the actual money, but how it is produced - and without doubt, supporters who put money in to this will take a bit of pride knowing their cash went to such a good cause - and it is doubly good because we stand to make money as well! I would rather fans got involved with this than just think that some rich person should just come along and finance it - it''s a good scheme by all accounts and one that has the added possibility of a bonus of rewards if we get promoted ("if" being the operative word). It''s a good cause, one which benefits the club and any fans who pay into it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hogesar 9,503 Posted March 10, 2018 Will I even get a chance to invest or will a rich chinese fan Delia blocked from buying the club 3848373 times make up the entire 5m?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PurpleCanary 5,530 Posted March 10, 2018 [quote user="norfolkngood"]My point was Delia bought this club many years ago the value of the club is a lot more than she paid she has a net wealth of lets just say 20 million i know some say 30 million but lets say 20 would it really hurt her to pay the 3.5 million ?she would still have 16.5 million to last out her years her wealth or money / assets will be passed to Tom anyway so the family are not losing out now i am am not saying people should not choose to do this if they want to and like people have said they will invest and make some money it is their choice But if you own a football club and you have a nice wealth yourself i think it is wrong to ask people without that wealth to make your club business / better and add value to it when you could just give the money to the club if you add 3.5 million to what she paid for her shares it is still a very good return on her money over the years the profit if she or Tom were to sell would be huge i know if i was a super fan and had 20 million wealth and had no family and was going to pass it on to my nephew i would just pay 3.5 million and be happy knowing i set up the club for years to come like i said that''s my opinion not trying to put people off just my reason not to invest[/quote]Firstly, yes, the official share price has increased since Delia became owner. That is not the same as the club''s value having increased. Nor does it mean a prospective owner would pay that higher amount. Secondly, I have no idea what constitutes Delia''s wealth, but - and this applies to most on any Rich List - usually there is a vast difference between someone''s theoretical wealth and what they could actually get their hands on to - say - spend on a football club.Thirdly, it may be that a high percentage of whoever many millions she is theoretically worth is represented by her stake in Norwich City. And she cannot turn that into cash without giving up ownership or without scrapping the plan to pass ownership on to the nephew. And it would not make sense for her to cough up seeral million to fund redevelopment when she no longer owned the club - since that duty would obviously fall to the new - and much richer - owner. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norfolkngood 1,070 Posted March 10, 2018 some good points and well made as usual purple like i said some people are for it and that is their choice i am not saying they are wrong at all ,that is just my own personal opinion Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FCC 74 Posted March 10, 2018 Couldn’t the money be raised by a new share issue? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,351 Posted March 11, 2018 I''d rather do this than buy some more shares. May as well donate the money as do that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TIL 1010 4,656 Posted March 11, 2018 [quote user="Hoola Han Solo"]If they’re not willing to loan the club money they should not be owners of the football club. The owners are effectively asking for loans, albeit with interest, to plug the gap their mismanagement has done to our finances, without diluting any of their control. None of the investors will have any involvement in the decision making at the club.[/quote][Y] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icecream Snow 761 Posted March 11, 2018 [quote user="Hoola Han Solo"] None of the investors will have any involvement in the decision making at the club.[/quote]Buying a premium bond doesn''t let you run the government. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BroadstairsR 2,093 Posted March 11, 2018 Don''t count on £20m for Maddison.Coventry will have a massive sell-on clause. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Making Plans 929 Posted March 11, 2018 Would anybody invest in something that Ed Balls probably had a hand in dreaming up? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Badger 2,389 Posted March 11, 2018 [quote user="Making Plans"]Would anybody invest in something that Ed Balls probably had a hand in dreaming up?[/quote]Perhaps because they trust his financial judgement more than yours? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bill 1,788 Posted March 11, 2018 [quote user="Making Plans"]Would anybody invest in something that Ed Balls probably had a hand in dreaming up?[/quote]Yes, what other sports institution has tried this idea ?(apart from those who have, that is) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Badger 2,389 Posted March 11, 2018 [quote user="Hoola Han Solo"]My question would be, why are the owners not footing this £3.5m bill? Isn’t Delia meant to be a super fan? Instead she’s asking for for unsecured loans! Basically, the owners don’t want the risk of losing any money they loan the club, so are passing that risk off to Norwich City supporters.[/quote]I''m sure that they could have acted as other "investor owners" have don. Gold and Sullivan have charged up to 7% interest on loans that they have made to West Ham:"meaning that around £75m could be paid back for £49m originally loaned to the club by the owners."https://www.westhamtillidie.com/posts/2017/07/12/a-financial-update-on-west-ham-united£26 million profit on interest! If only we had rich owners like this heh, prepared to fund things themselves? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PurpleCanary 5,530 Posted March 11, 2018 [quote user="norfolkngood"]some good points and well made as usual purple like i said some people are for it and that is their choice i am not saying they are wrong at all ,that is just my own personal opinion[/quote]I respect your decision. Of course, Delia and the other directors have pledged to put money into this bond scheme, but plainly not enough to fund the Colney redevelopment by themselves. As said, I don''t know how much of their wealth would be disposable, and that would apply to Foulger as well as Smith and Jones.I get the basic complaint of (some) posters, which is that Smith and Jones are simply not rich enough to enable the club to compete with many of the clubs in the Championship, let alone the Premier League.But as far as that is concerned we are - for now - where we are. If fans decide not to invest in this bond scheme that is fine, even if some of the reasons (apparently if our chairman were a Tory that would be a guarantee of the scheme''s probity, as Conservatives never ever scr*w up the economy...) are a bit on the manufactured side. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mello Yello 2,265 Posted March 11, 2018 Would anybody invest in something that Ed Balls probably had a hand in dreaming up? Perhaps because they trust his financial judgement more than yours?Yeah that''s why Ed''s still a majority elected Labour hard nosed well admired and respected politician.......Oh wait?..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites