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gissing canary

Midfield next season

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Tettey and wes are out of contract and assuming Leitner and reed go back (I think we keep Leitner). Under contract for next season in the middle we have;

Kenny McLean - I am keen to see. Good left footer who can score

Ben Godfrey - key defensive player for a top team in league one this season. Surely has to come back next season.

Louis Thompson - forgotten man, but looked decent before the injury. Not sure how he will recover for next season.

Trybull - back fit.

Vrancic - hopefully better next year. Could be amazing for us, but probably my biggest disappointment at the beginning of the season.

The question is - do we actually need a lot? That’s 5 decent midfielders at this level and with the 4 leaving a much leaner wage budget.

I haven’t included Madison in the debate. As if he stays it’s great and if he goes we would easily be able to sign a player in that role. The question is, do those 5 offer enough to get top 6?

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I don''t think any on that list get into a top six starting eleven. Possibly all could ''do a job'' (although Thompson''s fitness is a question and Godfrey would need to make quite a big step up. Similarly McLean - a 26 year old who has never got a move out of Scotland before, you have to wonder why).

For me, we need Maddison/a quality replacement, and one other with real quality. Whether that''s a defensive general, a box to box player, or a deep lying playmaker type I''m not too fussed (we could utilise all of those), but im concerned that (as with much of the rest of the squad) we''ve got too many decent squad players and not enough quality.

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Ben Godfrey has been a key part of a team chasing promotion from League 1. Look at the teams that came up from league 1 last season-Sheff Utd and Millwall still in with a chance of the play offs this season-it''s not such a big step up really.

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Maddison is irreplaceable - I think we are better trying to play two strikers, a target man, and one playing off him willing to work back.

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I think we should get Bradley Dack as Maddison''s replacement. Thompson is difficult one, maybe he''s better off going on a short-term loan to gain match sharpness. Godfrey is a good player, still needs to develop a lot though, but game time for us next season should do that however I wouldn''t expect loads from him. I also think we need a new RB, I love Pinto and his attitude, but I think Reed has looked better than him. Is Husband good enough to rely on if Lewis get''s a long-term injury? I think we''ll really need an experienced player to take over from Tetty. Godfrey and Thompson have potential but we need to get in a consistent proven performer in that role.

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Forget Dack. Blackburn (and Wigan) play attractive attacking football, have momentum, and possibly a better chance of pushing for promotion next season than we do.

These clubs are now our rivals, we are unlikely to entice players from these clubs. I think recruits will have to be less obvious and from lower down the league.

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[quote user="STFU"]Ben Godfrey has been a key part of a team chasing promotion from League 1. Look at the teams that came up from league 1 last season-Sheff Utd and Millwall still in with a chance of the play offs this season-it''s not such a big step up really.[/quote]

That''s true, but I think those teams are just that "teams"rather than technical individuals especially Millwall, they also have momentum after coming up which often seems easier than averting a decline. Personally as much as I like the look of Godfrey I think Tettey is going to be a huge loss, especially when you look at a lot of our performances without him this season. I have seen some stupid suggestions on this forum that his kind of player is 10 a penny to pick up, well I guess we''re about to find out.

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It doesn''t look too bad really, without signing anyone and assuming Tettey does actually leave;

CAM: Maddison/Cantwell

CM: Vrancic/Mclean/Stiepermann

DM: Trybull/Godfrey/Thompson

When you consider we could potentially sign Leitner and/or Reed permanently, and possibly keep Tettey, there''s quite a few options in there.

As others have said, not the best squad in the world, but arguably has the potential to reach the play-offs.

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What we do need from midfield is more dynamism players those who will burst beyond the striker and have the ability to recover and do their defensive duties too. Maclean may provide this. This would enable the ball players that are left (vrancic, trybull, leitner if he joins) following Wes/Maddisons departures to have more than a single target.

Hernandez added that from the bench and eased the burden solely on Murphys shoulders as the three talented players on Sat (maddison, mario & Leitner) all failed to make those bursts forward.

I am not sure Trybull suits being the lone CDM. his excellent performances have all been enabled by partnering Tettey (the pair are undefeated when starting together with just 1 draw), without Tettey the results with Trybull are as average as any others.

Perhaps Steipermann can become wither the box to box man or the deeper tettey style sweeper to give trybull the platform to conduct as he can.

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[quote user="AJ"]It doesn''t look too bad really, without signing anyone and assuming Tettey does actually leave;

CAM: Maddison/Cantwell

CM: Vrancic/Mclean/Stiepermann

DM: Trybull/Godfrey/Thompson

When you consider we could potentially sign Leitner and/or Reed permanently, and possibly keep Tettey, there''s quite a few options in there.

As others have said, not the best squad in the world, but arguably has the potential to reach the play-offs.[/quote]

AJ, that midfield does not fill me confidence at all! Cantwell is someway off yet, Thompson is currently injured with a long term injury that could still impact fitness wise into pre-season, Steipermann CM? Can’t see him being effective there and Maddison won’t be here.

McLean has potential and on paper should be a good signing, but Vrancic is inconsistent and has big weaknesses at this level.

Trybull and Godfrey in the CDM positions should be decent though.

We need a replacement or two for Pritchard, Wes and Maddison.

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Lincoln, believe it or not Stiepermann is actually predominantly a CM (or was before we signed him!).

He''s done well at LB when we needed him though.

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Without meaning to sound sarcy, I think I''ve seen Steiperman penciled in be a left back, central midfielder, attacking midfielder and right winger next season in the last couple of weeks.

Can''t see him being anything more than a bit part utility man.

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Contrary to Lincolns posts, Vrancic was yet again our best midfielder against Preston and expect him to be a regular next season. Where he plays and who his partner is if its a midfield two will be interesting.

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If we''re playing with 5 midfielders next season we look like we''ve got a solid set of options.

Vrancic, Trybull, Godfrey and Leitner can all play deeper.

Hernandez and Murphy will be first choice out wide, although if we play wing backs they won''t both be needed.

Leitner looks like he can play in the advanced midfield role if needed too.

The question is finding a balance. My concern is a midfield with both Leitner and Vrancic will be too similar- lots of neat and tidy passes but without the movement and runs that players like Maddison and Pritchard bring to the table.

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[quote user="Readingbetweenthewhines"]Cantwell is someway off yet, Thompson is currently injured with a long term injury that could still impact fitness wise into pre-season...[/quote]Using your logic, you would''ve written off Jamal Lewis at this time last year...

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Kind of agree king. Although maybe Leitner would play in the Maddison role or be encouraged to make those runs ahead of the striker. I dont think that is Vrancic''s game but it could be Leitners.

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[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="Readingbetweenthewhines"]Cantwell is someway off yet, Thompson is currently injured with a long term injury that could still impact fitness wise into pre-season...[/quote]Using your logic, you would''ve written off Jamal Lewis at this time last year...[/quote]

Yes Lappin, if you like.

I guess by your logic, we should assume that all youngsters with potential are certain to have a positive impact on the first team. Therefore safe to count our chickens.

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[quote user="hogesar"]Contrary to Lincolns posts, Vrancic was yet again our best midfielder against Preston and expect him to be a regular next season. Where he plays and who his partner is if its a midfield two will be interesting.[/quote]

Your the only person who rates Vrancic week in week out. What does that tell you?

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Possibly but it isn''t something I''ve seen from him as of yet.

If you''re playing those two you also really need to play one of Trybull/Godfrey to do some more of the dirty work and thus the emphasis will be more on the wingers to make runs inside, get beyond the striker and the lone striker to pull defenders around and create space.

What we don''t want is a situation where all our attacks really only have three players pushing forwards while others sit deep. I''m still of the opinion that a 3-4-3 type formation could help as it liberates the wing backs to overlap and offer support.

Ideally it might look something like....

Matthews (based on Gunn not being here)

Klose, Zimmerman, Hanley

Pinto, Vrancic, Trybull, Lewis

Leitner, Srebeny, Murphy/Hernandez

Pinto and Lewis can supply the width, letting Leitner drift inside and create further up the pitch and Murphy or Hernandez to get closer to the striker. Klose can also step out with the ball and Vrancic can look to use his passing range from deep.

Of course I''d be expecting us to sign at least one new striker to start ahead of Srebeny though.

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You should try going to games Lincoln. Vrancic has changed the early season perception of pretty much everyone around me now.

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kc, I''d probably rotate Vrancic/Leitner/Trybull depending on the opposition & form & play Onel & Josh on the wings as part of a front 3.

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[quote user="hogesar"]You should try going to games Lincoln. Vrancic has changed the early season perception of pretty much everyone around me now.[/quote]

But I do go to games sweetheart? Granted only 6 times this season.

What stood out though, is that of the 6 games I’ve been too.. we’ve won 3 and Vrancic wasnt invloved. A fourth game was drawn, no Vrancic, and guess what, 2 defeats and Vrancic played on those two occasions!

Of course this could all be coincidence. But just a few weeks back I put up the stats of our results with and without Vrancic, and we lose much more often and win far less when Vrancic plays.

That tells me that he’s effect on the team isn’t that postive. Despite the fact he looks a very tidy footballer on the ball.

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@Lincoln

That is such a simplistic way of looking at things. There are far too many variables to make that sort of call.

I was one of Vrancic''s biggest critics earlier in the season but you''d have to be incredibly stubborn to not recognise the marked improvement he''s shown in the second half of the season.

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@KC

Actually I think it’s much more simplistic to watch him on the ball and allow his good touch and excellent long range passing abillity to form a judgement that he’s a good player and should start.

The results speak for themselves don’t they? Personally as a collective I think we’re weaker when Vrancic plays in a critical central role. He lacks any sort of fear factor, which seems to give the opposition confidence, and he can by easily bypassed by a strong athletic midfielder runnng from midfield, of which there are plenty in the championship.

On the ball he looks great. But off the ball he’s ineffective. He’s too slow and dominant enough. He’s too easy to play against and that’s why I believe the results when he plays are as they are.

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I agree in part- his off the ball work is lacking in terms of tracking runs and his general mobility- hence why you need him next to a Trybull/Tettey type to give more cover in behind.

I''m of the opinion that what he can do with the ball far outweighs the off the ball weaknesses now- this isn''t something I would have said in December for instance.

I think he''s another player who benefits from us playing a back 3 also- having three behind him reduces the impact of his weaknesses, while also freeing our wingbacks up to create more options for him to find with the ball.

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[quote user="Readingbetweenthewhines"][quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="Readingbetweenthewhines"]Cantwell is someway off yet, Thompson is currently injured with a long term injury that could still impact fitness wise into pre-season...[/quote]Using your logic, you would''ve written off Jamal Lewis at this time last year...[/quote]

Yes Lappin, if you like.

I guess by your logic, we should assume that all youngsters with potential are certain to have a positive impact on the first team. Therefore safe to count our chickens.[/quote]I never said that, you''re putting words in my mouth.I was simply pointing out you can''t tell how any player is going to perform next season so trying to predict it, especially with a negative slant, is futile. Just as easy to say "hopefully youngsters like Cantwell can step up next year" rather than "Cantwell is someway off yet". How many of his games have you watched since he''s been on loan?

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Well without being rude if you''ve only seen 6 games its hard to see how the team plays with him and without him. Without him at home weve had to pretty much consistently play in front of the opposition. With him we have been able to hit on the counter so much more effectively with balls over the top for the wingers etc.

Also whilst not the quickest to say he is ineffective off the ball is actually, factually, nonsense. He wins more in the air than any of our other midfielders in a central position and makes just as many interceptions as the likes of Trybull and Tettey. He does have some weaknesses in this area but almost any player in our squad will have some weaknesses. It''s called the championship.

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