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hogesar

Why didn't we invest in Colney?

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Fans being asked to fund training ground improvements whilst the owners took back out £1.5m in a year (prob could have done quite a lot at Colney for that) where our income dropped by around £50m. Most expensive tickets in the division whilst bleating in the national news about how terribly fans are treated and how the big, bad, premier league (who have almost entirely funded our club for the last 7 years) should do something about it.

What a joke. "Self funded" should read "fan funded" all to maintain a nice little asset for Tiny Tom to run into the ground.

Minded to ask for my "rebate loan" back as well since that matched funding appears to have been quietly converted into a loan and repaid.

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I only pay for my season ticket renewal and contribute nothing more or nothing less to the football club.......I also claimed my rebate back those few years ago.......Does that make me a bad supporter?......

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I remember back when we got promoted in 03/04 and we built that huge innovative indoor training pitch which not many clubs had. At the time we were boasting about our fantastic ''Premier League Standard'' facilities. That is, of course, a lifetime ago now and from what I''ve heard/read we''ve done very little to update things since then, aside of the odd improvements and maintenance.

Sadly, in a way, McNally and Bowkett were right. To carry on the long-term financial success of the club we had to remain in the Premier League to afford the extra outlays such as improvements to the ground and training facilities. Whilst money was spent on Youth improvements over the years, very little else was spent on anything but playing staff.

I''m sure a lot of people would be wishing that the double coup of Fer and Wolfswinkle had turned out much, much different. Maybe not Hughton though, he seems pretty happy right now... We would have been financially in a much better position to make sustainable improvements. Those decisions were made to keep us financially stable, and had they not been relegation could have majorly killed us financially, it already has had a huge impact and not achieving promotion this year is going to make things very difficult indeed.

As for Colney now, we can''t really attract Premier League calibre players and internationals easily without the lure of the Premier League (and lots of cash) anyway, so no point worrying about it now. Yes it is not great anymore, but it is certainly an OK standard for this league.

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The indoor training pitch was built in order to retain Category 1 Academy status, and even then we ended up with a half-arsed reduced building as they couldn’t get the planning permission pushed through for a full-sized playing surface!

I totally agree that some of the monies spent to date has been (with the benefit of hindsight) frittered away on signings that haven’t worked out, but Its becoming apparent as Webber weaves his way through the wreckage that there’s been some appalling decisions made by those at the top in recent times.

Going back to Burnley and their ‘superb’ facility. It cost them £10.5m to build - as a club that’s clung onto its Category 1 Academy status during lean times it would suggest it’s something we’re keen to protect? Surely we could/should have found ourselves setting aside funds after finishing 12th and 11th in successive Premier League seasons?!

This isn’t about investing poorly on the pitch, every club has examples of that...this is about failing to ensure our facilities are up to spec. to give us the best chance of succeeding as a club, self-funding or not.

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[quote user="AJ"]I remember back when we got promoted in 03/04 and we built that huge innovative indoor training pitch which not many clubs had. At the time we were boasting about our fantastic ''Premier League Standard'' facilities. That is, of course, a lifetime ago now and from what I''ve heard/read we''ve done very little to update things since then, aside of the odd improvements and maintenance.

Sadly, in a way, McNally and Bowkett were right. To carry on the long-term financial success of the club we had to remain in the Premier League to afford the extra outlays such as improvements to the ground and training facilities. Whilst money was spent on Youth improvements over the years, very little else was spent on anything but playing staff.

I''m sure a lot of people would be wishing that the double coup of Fer and Wolfswinkle had turned out much, much different. Maybe not Hughton though, he seems pretty happy right now... We would have been financially in a much better position to make sustainable improvements. Those decisions were made to keep us financially stable, and had they not been relegation could have majorly killed us financially, it already has had a huge impact and not achieving promotion this year is going to make things very difficult indeed.

As for Colney now, we can''t really attract Premier League calibre players and internationals easily without the lure of the Premier League (and lots of cash) anyway, so no point worrying about it now. Yes it is not great anymore, but it is certainly an OK standard for this league.[/quote]Only up to a point at best, I think. Our first season back (Lambert) we made a profit of £18m, but that was mainly because we had shot up to the Premier League, with a squad from League One and the Championship, so our wages were still very low in comparison. And the two seasons we got relegated we made profits of £9m and £14m, but that was because we didn''t have to pay bonuses related to staying up. The one season (2012-13) we stayed up, and so paid those bonuses, the profit was only £2.4m.The reality is we have to spend all the money on the playing side just to give us a chance of staying up, and that would apply even if we seemed to have cemented our place for a while.As an aside to Jim, I think it must be a first to see Smith and Jones and Foulger criticised for finally wanting to be paid back interest-free loans without which the club might well have gone to the wall.

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It''s a real connnundrum balancing the needs of the club with the needs of the playing staff.  Every effort and every penny was put into the team to try and keep us in the PL long enough to make a difference, but all we did was spend every penny on players who either weren''t good enough or bothered enough to make a difference. The correct attitude is to get in the PL and spend very little on new players, take the money and run. Yes, it probably means demotion again, but then you have made millions for the club to improve infrastructure and develop playing staff for another go at getting promotion. Get promoted again three or four years down the line and do it again.  If by chance you stay up, all well and good, but if you get demoted again, at least you have got the money and can develop further.  That strategy could well lead to getting the club in such a good state that it manages to stay up once promoted, perhaps for two or three seasons......whatever.....as long as the club don''t go down the route of buying expensive players, it is a recipe for continued development.  After all we''ve seen what happens to a club like ours when it tries to spend it''s way to success - it just sets us back. Without a big investor the above approach is the only one that makes sense. The PL is there for the money - we should take advantage of it.

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Purple said :- As an aside to Jim, I think it must be a first to see Smith and Jones and Foulger criticised for finally wanting to be paid back interest-free loans without which the club might well have gone to the wall.

Well, now that the interest free loans have been paid to the true saviours of the club - and that they don''t now have to contribute to the club''s dwindling coffers. The true saviours can now just sit back, relax, chill and watch the football and fraternise with their friends and just hope that a going to the wall without mortar moment, doesn''t materialise again. Will Nepotominism be given his own cement mixer as part of his impending inheritance?....."Auntie, is that my new shed over their?" "No dear nephew, that''s your brick hod that''s upside down and it''s down to you to fill it dear boy!......Crack on!"

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[quote user="lake district canary"]It''s a real connnundrum balancing the needs of the club with the needs of the playing staff.  Every effort and every penny was put into the team to try and keep us in the PL long enough to make a difference, but all we did was spend every penny on players who either weren''t good enough or bothered enough to make a difference. The correct attitude is to get in the PL and spend very little on new players, take the money and run. Yes, it probably means demotion again, but then you have made millions for the club to improve infrastructure and develop playing staff for another go at getting promotion. Get promoted again three or four years down the line and do it again.  If by chance you stay up, all well and good, but if you get demoted again, at least you have got the money and can develop further.  That strategy could well lead to getting the club in such a good state that it manages to stay up once promoted, perhaps for two or three seasons......whatever.....as long as the club don''t go down the route of buying expensive players, it is a recipe for continued development.  After all we''ve seen what happens to a club like ours when it tries to spend it''s way to success - it just sets us back. Without a big investor the above approach is the only one that makes sense. The PL is there for the money - we should take advantage of it.

[/quote]When McNally first came in, if my memory serves me correctly, he had a seven-year plan that did include one season in PL followed by relegation and then back up to the PL again. Seems like the club lost its way a little bit and once making it to the PL the lure of staying there was too strong and so we went for the expensive and risky signings. I think some folk did very nicely out of those signings, and not just the players involved.

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Tony Pulis, facing the sack from WBA, hit the nail on the head when he said, you do well but that isn''t enough nowadays.

Having spent years watching us wallowing in the lower tiers, we have had 45 years of mainly top or second tier football.

We have tried to bring in top class players, some succeeded where others failed.

The ground has improved out of recognition and the training facilities are very good if you remember Trowse.

The players don''t drive around in Austin A40''s anymore. they have limos. Their contracts get paid up for under performing.

And still, watching or playing for NCFC isn''t good enough.

When will it be?

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These were more recent loans Purple and of course they are entitled to repayment of their loans. The timing though says everything about how it''s going to be in the future - the owners putting nothing in (probably the only owners in the country who don''t) whilst consigning us to an uncompetitive future. " a cynic might think they were getting their money back out whilst they still can. I''ve said before I think they mean well and I think they probably believe that this "self sustaining" club can be competitive but I am not at all convinced and I really do fear for us under Tiny Tom.

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even a self sustaining club sometimes needs a little help from owners i am not talking how Delia saved the club etc she has to my knowledge got all her money back if not 90 % yet the value of the club since she bought it has double maybe trebled so time to dig a bit deeper Delia its only going into the club you are handing to your family

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[quote user="Jim Smith"]These were more recent loans Purple and of course they are entitled to repayment of their loans. The timing though says everything about how it''s going to be in the future - the owners putting nothing in (probably the only owners in the country who don''t) whilst consigning us to an uncompetitive future. " a cynic might think they were getting their money back out whilst they still can. I''ve said before I think they mean well and I think they probably believe that this "self sustaining" club can be competitive but I am not at all convinced and I really do fear for us under Tiny Tom.[/quote]I don''t think so, Jim, unless you are going way back. At the end of the 2007-08 season there was only a minimal amount in loans from directors. But that summer, given the club''s problems, Smith and Jones and Foulger threw in nearly 3m (2.1m from S&J and 0.7m from Foulger). The next year Foulger bumped his contribution up to 1.4m, and that was the high point, totalling 3.5m between them. From then on the amounts were reduced at odd times down to 2015, when 2m was outstanding, and that got paid off in 2016. Of course Foulger also bought around 80,000 shares a few years ago, to swell the coffers, and Smith and Jones did the same years back in at least one of the share offerings. But they were not loans.

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purple can you remember the debt amount when she took over ?? in other words what did she buy the club for ??

it would be interesting to know how much she has put into the club over the years without taking it back out

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[quote user="norfolkngood"]purple can you remember the debt amount when she took over ?? in other words what did she buy the club for ??

it would be interesting to know how much she has put into the club over the years without taking it back out[/quote]Afraid I don''t have accounts going back that far, and I wouldn''t like to guess, being only a naive amateur as far as football finance is concerned. Probably best if you aimed that question, and probably all others, at those with unbiased professional knowledge.The way you can tell which posters those are, and just how unbiased, is that they never talk about "Smith and Jones", but always "the cook and wynie" or "the Suffolk socialists" and if Ed Balls comes up there is always some apparently hilarious reference to dancing. Those are the posters to trust.

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