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king canary

The sense of entitlement on here...

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I''m just staggered reading this forum.

Imagine being so entitled to think the team should occasionally win a game!

Or the incredible entitlement of thinking that your team should score a goal- some on here even want us to score more than one in a game! Madness.

People on here seem to demand instant success - don''t you realise that every new signing needs at least 2 seasons to bed in and that thinking we should be higher than 15th after nearly half the season is crazy talk!

And don''t even get me started on the ungrateful attitude to our wondrous owners. Don''t you know they did something good in 1996 so are now beyond reproach? How entitled must you be to think that selling our best players and replacing them on the cheap is anything but a good idea and do you want us to PORTSMOUTH or COVENTRY and have one of those EVIL FOREIGN Types who''ve never been to Roy''s of Wroxham in charge. We all know it will inevitably lead to us selling our ground and playing at the Walks with King''s Lynn.

Honestly, some of you need a good, hard look at yourselves.

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[quote user="king canary"]

Or the incredible entitlement of thinking that your team should score a goal- some on here even want us to score more than one in a game! Madness. [/quote]Yes, well we did that regularly last season and it made no difference - this board was still full of numpties moaning every week with their simplistic and stereotyped demands.This season the appointed scapegoats aren''t playing which has confused many, so we have scrape the barrel to bring up the default scapegoats which can be applied to any situation you don''t like.Yep, the sense of entitlement on this board is absolutely staggering which probably also partly explains why the crowd at Carrow Road are so unbelieveably quiet - paying spectators who don''t think they''re getting their money''s worth rather than real supporters.

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You illustrate the problem really well, but unfortunately it is a serious issue rather than an ironic one.

This forum seems to only has two types of posters - the young, expectant supporter who expects to win every game and be promoted at a canter and the older, seen it all, surprised by nothing wise old head, with no expectations at all.

Fact is, we are Norwich. We are a Championship (second tier) team. We have a limited supporter base. We''re not little, but we also have no chance of ever being a fixture in the Premier League. Nor have any other little team. Like them, we will have an occasional couple of years in the sun. If we get good players or a good manager they will move on to bigger and better things. Sometimes we will have mediocre seasons. Sometimes we won''t.

These facts doesn''t seem to play well with one section of our support, yet that was where we were for most of our existence up to the early 1970''s, since when we have bounced around a bit and it''s been a great time to be a Norwich fan. But the fundamental facts haven''t changed in all that time. Even with a mega rich foreign owner we could never be a Man City or a Chelsea - not unless you want to move Norwich or import a population of another million or so people.

So, yes the sense of entitlement is misplaced. I''m not excusing the abject mismanagement of the last few years which has completely destroyed the Lambert legacy - it would be hard to find a Board who have performed so abysmally in a business sense, and the wasted opportunity will always hurt.

I do slightly fear that this Board is so useless that it will take a decision which will ultimately threaten to turn us into a Coventry or a Portsmouth, but money isn''t necessarily the answer. Lambert didn''t have any money; Hughton did.

But it''s always been like this and we are no different to every other little club - even if we''d had another couple of seasons up there, we were always going to get relegated - just like Watford will be; just like Leicester will be; just like Stoke will be. They will always be little clubs like us, even if they had £500m in the bank.

And that''s also why Everton probably won''t be relegated, but if they are it will be for one season, like Newcastle, Tottenham and Man Utd before them.

Big teams always come back, eventually. Little teams always go down.

Enjoy the successes while we have them because what we have now - this is normality and where we are. This is what being a supporter of Norwich City is. This is what having a football club is about.

I couldn''t really give a monkey''s what league we play in; all success is relative and we will either go up or down and it won''t change my life. But I belong to something and even if I am not particularly entertained or we don''t win away at Forest on a Tuesday night, I feel it.

The days under Saunders, Bond, Stringer, Walker and Lambert will live with me forever. Except for Stringer all those managers were poached by bigger teams. That''s life.

Expecting to win every game, or even perform well, is just unrealistic and will inevitably disappoint. Criticising the team or the manager is a short term exercise - very little ever changes long term. We can only hope to find another manager at some point who will give us some more seasons to remember.

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After reading the prices people have to pay nowadays for a season ticket...why are they moaning...it''s a bargain! Who wouldn''t want to pay to see the wonderful entertainmenty this team serves up every week!!!

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Yeah, we are a less than average side at the mo''.......So don''t show any concern or ever dare to criticise anything concerning the club.

Just accept it as it is and roll over onto your backs and have your tummies tickled......

(But tummy ticklin'' will also mean a 2% increase on your season ticket).......allegedly......

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@Creative midfielder

"This season the appointed scapegoats aren''t playing which has confused many, so we have scrape the barrel to bring up the default scapegoats which can be applied to any situation you don''t like."

What on earth does this even mean?

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@SGNFC

Interesting post but I fundementaly disagree with this...

"This forum seems to only has two types of posters - the young, expectant supporter who expects to win every game and be promoted at a canter and the older, seen it all, surprised by nothing wise old head, with no expectations at all. "

I''m on of those younger posters but I''ve never bet a single fan who expects to win every game and be promoted at a canter. That is your projection, not reality.

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Lets go through this.

"This forum seems to only has two types of posters ."

- Plenty of middle grounders they just get drowned out.

"We are a Championship (second tier) team. We have a limited supporter base. "

- Eh?? We are the only competitive team in an entire county. We have supporter potential sides like Charlton or QPR could only dream of. Wrong.

"we also have no chance of ever being a fixture in the Premier League". - why ever not? Where is the ingrained lack of ambition - right there!

"But the fundamental facts haven''t changed in all that time. " Football hasn''t changed since the 70''s??? What??? It has changed beyond recognition!!

Even with a mega rich foreign owner we could never be a Man City or a Chelsea. - yes they could. ~Very easily. Why would you need your extra supporters with a rich investor. Man City were L1 fodder...if you remember. Chelsea bang average in the 80s''

"I do slightly fear that this Board is so useless that it will take a decision which will ultimately threaten to turn us into a Coventry or a Portsmouth," - glad we agree with something .

Big teams always go back- Forest? Leeds? Derby?

Little teams always come down - Stoke? Palace? Leicester?

Expecting to win every game, or even perform well, is just unrealistic and will inevitably disappoint. - Agree.

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By the way ... good post sgncfc ... The Lambert era was just so great ... and I blame the board for not making the most of the opportunities it offered...(at least I think it offered).

But it''s a fact that we just will never have the resources to sustain a very long run in the PL...

The Abramowiches and the sheikh Mansous, along with the Glazers and the Rupert Murdoch imperium dictate football...which I think is terrible. football WAS just a sport...now it'' s more business than sport

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DCB... I can regularly agree with your opinions on this forum... but I can''t see us turning into a Man City or a Chelsea... Why; geography , bussiness interest ,... Norwich is not central enough, not close enough to the heart of the country. Not enough potential for an investor to take a chance imo

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Irony to one side, I do wish people would show a bit more compassion towards the club. So we are struggling to score goals at the moment......a few months ago we were struggling to keep goals out! We are trying a different way of things and it will take a while. No-one enjoys not winning, no-one enjoys seeing us struggle, but football is a roller coaster.  Not one club in the country has everything they want - and every club struggles to get where they want to be. We are in a struggle, but we are not the ony ones. 91 other league clubs are struggling too. Villa have been struggling to live up to their fans expectations for around 100 years and they still regularly fail to achieve any lasting success. We are in transition, it would be good to think that the majority of fans accept this and try and enjoy the process.....yes I know it''s hard to see positives sometimes.....but it is just another stage of the roller coaster...just like the one every football club in the country is on, from grass roots to PL.

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@LDC

I think the luxury of being able to ''enjoy the process'' is one mainly enjoyed by those not regularly spending their hard earned to go to games. Not a shot at those who can''t but just my opinion.

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LDCspouts more bollox, what a shock! If you got to a game regularly and saw the $hit that’s served up week after week thanks to a head coach out of his depth then you may get a realistic take on what’s going on!

I don’t know who spouts more bollox, LDC or Farke when he says our best away performance was last night!

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[quote user="king canary"]@LDCI think the luxury of being able to ''enjoy the process'' is one mainly enjoyed by those not regularly spending their hard earned to go to games. Not a shot at those who can''t but just my opinion.[/quote]

KC - and baldyboy - I''ve been there and done that and got the T shirt. Having difficult times goes with the territory of being a football supporter.   That some people choose to over react to setbacks and difficult times on the pitch is presumably because it makes them feel better, but imo it is just an over reaction and a denial of the reality of the fact that if the new heirchy is to succeed, it will take time.

 

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"Dean Coney''s boots" Lets go through this.

"This forum seems to only has two types of posters ."

- Plenty of middle grounders they just get drowned out.

"We are a Championship (second tier) team. We have a limited supporter base. "

- Eh?? We are the only competitive team in an entire county. We have supporter potential sides like Charlton or QPR could only dream of. Wrong.

"we also have no chance of ever being a fixture in the Premier League". - why ever not? Where is the ingrained lack of ambition - right there!

"But the fundamental facts haven''t changed in all that time. " Football hasn''t changed since the 70''s??? What??? It has changed beyond recognition!!

Even with a mega rich foreign owner we could never be a Man City or a Chelsea. - yes they could. ~Very easily. Why would you need your extra supporters with a rich investor. Man City were L1 fodder...if you remember. Chelsea bang average in the 80s''

"I do slightly fear that this Board is so useless that it will take a decision which will ultimately threaten to turn us into a Coventry or a Portsmouth," - glad we agree with something .

Big teams always go back- Forest? Leeds? Derby?

Little teams always come down - Stoke? Palace? Leicester?

Expecting to win every game, or even perform well, is just unrealistic and will inevitably disappoint. - Agree.

sgncfc got it about 95% right, I think.

Yes, plenty of people in the middle. This forum probably represents the more opinionated type of supporter.

We are essentially a Championship team that can make it to the Premiership occasionally. But there is a big group of teams that fall into this category.

Our fan-base is county-wide at the least and the envy of many teams. Norwich City and Norfolk go hand-in-hand. One of our big strengths.

We have absolutely no chance of becoming a permanent fixture in the Premier League. Only the top six can ever hope to attain such a status, and even then they will have a wobble from time to time.

Depends what you mean by fundamental facts but fundamentally three teams will always get promoted and three relegated (used to be two) so being crap may be ok if the opposition are even more crap. (But not a good strategy).

I would hate our success to be because of cheque-book football. It''s like having friends around you because you are wealthy and always get the drinks in. Once the money is gone, so are those friends. No thanks, I''d rather have poor owners and a club with which I can identify. If Norwich ever became a Chelsea I would go and watch Mulbarton or someone.

Both Coventry and Portsmouth are clubs whose owners once had grandiose plans. Where did it all go wrong? How would you prevent that happening to us? If the price of success meant Carrow Road being sold for housing and a business park would you accept it?

Forest? Leeds? Derby? Stoke? Palace? Leicester?

All part of that big group of clubs to which we belong. Sometimes up, sometimes down. None of them guaranteed anything. But the beauty of football is that at whatever level we are at, however bad it seems, we all live in hope for the next game. No expectations only hope.

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I like the caveat of hope. It’s the hope that kills you.

I think to put it as simply as this: wouldn’t we all like to see decent football played by our team where we score some goals, lose but make damn sure we put up a fight?

That’s literally it. Beyond all the philosophy, beyond all the formation / stat discussions, beyond all the tearing chunks out of the majority shareholders all I want to see is good football!!!!!!! I mean ffs is that too much to ask?!!!!

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Nearly two pages and no sign of Nutty yet. [;)] Baldyboy the worrying thing is that Farke is right in that it was probably our best away performance of the season but that result just shows the direction in which we are heading. Quite an achievement to only ship one goal in a lot of games but when you have scored only 16 in 18 league games which is less than a goal a game you are not going to get too many points.

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Tilly, there''s only a certain number of times I can say I liked last season better and I am enjoying this season so far less than any season for a very long time.
Last season I watched 55 goals for and 22 against. Thing is I think people liked that even less when we had it.
But I don''t think tearing it all up and starting again will produce anything better. So I guess you could say I''m still reluctantly patient. 

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Fan Base not build enough? Utter rubbish.. we have a huge catchment area with no clubs near us for 40/50 miles. Ever go to Wembley with NCFC? Seen our away following

Too Far away - 2 Hours from London. Again utter rubbish

Championship Club - Only in the minds of those with no ambition or pride. Burnely are 7th, Bournemouth? Stoke (that is a nightmare to get to by the way) Leicester, Swansea, Southampton.

Two types of fans

Those happy to turn up keep paying as long as they can have a pint / coffee. Football is almost irrelevant

The rest of us.

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Yeah but LDC, whilst I agree with some of what you say it was only Saturday I saw a post from you saying "I wasn''t going to bother watching the game but now i''ve seen the squad I might do".
I mean you don''t even bother going to the game physically but to then claim you couldn''t be bothered to watch it in the comfort of your own home is about as fair-weather as it gets.

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NN, to say we liked last season even less implies you have a crystal ball!

I didn’t like last season under Neil mainly because he appeared to not learn from mistakes he made, something he has admitted since being sacked, but to say I like this season more, which is what you’d post implies, is ludicrous!

It’s that old saying, hindsight is a wonderful thing!

And LDC, it’s not an over reaction at all, most people think this seasons football is awful so I’d hardly think that’s an over reaction!

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I mean for this new structure to work we''re going to need to be patient. That much is obvious and Webber has consistently tried to get that across but to little avail. 
We know Nick Mashiter is basically Webber''s media outlet, and this is what he had to say yesterday:
"So much change at its not surprising to see inconsistencies or current struggles. After five years of poor decisions club won''t turn around in five months."
"That said, shame it got to the stage of needing a new blueprint. It did and board members must carry the can for some awful decisions. Current set-up needs to clean up the mess. "
I mean the obvious issue here is if you agree with the amount of blame on the board because that''s what Webber''s falling back on at the moment - previous poor decisions requiring time to get things put right.

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I''ve not been on here for a while as I''ve given up my season ticket I also took time away from this forum.

I''ve said before this set up is the right way forward IMO, and for while it was looking good. I still think it will work in time, but only for this level of football.

There''s a lot of threads now criticising the club, others talking about transition, unfortunately its a transition forlife of a self sustained mid sized championship club.

Our period premiership was great but we are now a down graded championship club, that''s the crux of our situation, due relegated and struggling to find that response to get back in the land of milk and honey before the money runs out.

Relegation was probably down to the board for not sacking Neil and bringing in a manager with a chance of survival, then to stick by a failed manager the following season, brining in a poor CEO in Moxey then having to fund three million to pay them off.

This new set up is designed to find a balance of football and finance, a few gems from Europe and sell them to sustain our finances.

People need to get used to the fact whil we are stuck with high cost players, Klose, Jarvis & Naismith, who costs the club up to an estimated 20 % of the current wage structure and with no sign of them being wanted anytime soon by other mugs, we''ll be paying this till the end of their contract for zero return, we won''t be shopping with the rich clubs of this league.

So our club is restructuring itself but for what we are a Championship club. The next thing which might well happen next season is that we see our Cat 1 youth system downgraded as it''s an expensive luxury for our club, Maddison or other better players sold to cover the debt highlighted in our accounts and the return of more loan players.

That''s the life of a self sustained club, we will see wages cut further, squad more inline with mid table championship and searching for that elusive success along with the others, like Forrest, Leeds, Boro, Birmingham etc.

The problem comes when you see at least seven clubs with very wealthy owners in this league and those relegated with huge parachute payments see''s our chances of promotion dwindle with each season.

Given the price of our season tickets being highlighted as high for the cheapest ticket, I''m sure an average is a tad more competitive and in line with the rest of this league, but it won''t help should our owners increase any ticket prices. We might well see sub 20k crowds for the first time in 12 years. That will put more strain on a tight budget.

Given Colney needs to be improved and our current CEO or whatever Webber is, has gone hand in cap in hand and asking for the clubs supporters to fund this, it could well back fire given the lack of any investment from our current owners, taking into account that loans have been replayed and no real money into the club since 2008, from the time of Foulger. It might be time to see them step up and input some funds to encourage our supporters to help too.

So in summary it''s a poor season, given that we still have Klose, Pinto, Oliviera, Naismith, Jarvis, Gunn, Wes, Martin all internationals or ex internationals we really should be better than we are. Not sure 15th is OK nearly half way through, with no wins in over a month.

Maybe one day we might get lucky and Tom will decide it''s not for him, sell his aunties legacy to a wealthy owner who might invest, or we stumble on the next Lambert.

As previous owners, they must never forget, it''s our community club, it''s not the current owners, it''s time our owners prove they deserve to be the head of our great club, it belongs to Norwich and it deserves the best chance of success, Please prove to us you should be where you are! Or sell to someone else......it is Norwich City!

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[quote user="hogesar"]Yeah but LDC, whilst I agree with some of what you say it was only Saturday I saw a post from you saying "I wasn''t going to bother watching the game but now i''ve seen the squad I might do".
I mean you don''t even bother going to the game physically but to then claim you couldn''t be bothered to watch it in the comfort of your own home is about as fair-weather as it gets.
[/quote]

Probably, but then my gripe isn''t with people who lose interest and accept the situation as it is, but those who turn setbacks into a reason to churn out all their old grievances about every little thing they can find to knock the club with.  Some of them will be closet binners, no doubt, but some are plainly Norwich supporters with a chip on their shoulder, out of proportion to what is actually happening - and by your own posts suggested the performance at Forest was ok, up to a point. I had other stuff to do on Saturday and preferred to listen to it rather than mess about with an unreliable video link. I''m not inspired by the football atm, but I won''t start belly aching about every little thing I can find to beat the club with.  

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My god thats depressing Indy - but I don’t disagree with a single word.

I also wonder about the Cat 1 status - the whole model obviously relies on bringing players through the academy, to sell on. But do we have the spare 2.5million or so to fund it every year?

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"Given the price of our season tickets being highlighted as high for the cheapest ticket, I''m sure an average is a tad more competitive "

I''m not sure it is tbh.

Looking at that price of football survey, 8 teams most expensive season ticket is more expensive that our cheapest- that is a full 1/3rd of the league.

There are another 6 teams whose most expensive season ticket is less than £50 more than our cheapest again. So that is 14 teams out of 24 whos most expensive season ticket is pretty close in price to our cheapest.

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As I said, I''m sure there are clubs like Sheffield Wed and Villa who will no doubt have a higher price for top range season tickets.

I made my mind up this summer that it wasn''t worth the price and gave mine up after 20 odd years of having a season ticket.

I''m sure people will vote with their feet. That said I''ve been to a few games this year and not had any trouble buying two tickets together.

Whilst I don''t have evidence of what each club harmed through each class of ticket, I don''t know how our cheapest compares King.

I doubt there will be any reductions in pricing any time soon though.

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