8th highest prices in the country

[Duncan Edwards 2,218]

Exactly. Smiffy and the old man get it.

If you’re going to be swayed by cost or status, you’re a tourist. I’m a Norwich fan and if they played in Timbuktu......I’d still be a Norwich fan.

[king canary 7,578]

OK but then the club has less money.

If we''re self funded every empty seat costs us.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

They might be empty this week but they wouldn''t have been empty all those seasons they''ve been occupied. And the non supporters are the first to go in hard times anyway. Can''t see where the club lose anything.

[Duncan Edwards 2,218]

The club still isn’t in Yorkshire

[king canary 7,578]

Up to you whether you think those sorts of people bring anything to the club. I''m simply showing that our somewhat isolated location does play a part in our attendance.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

Still disagree Kingo. Unless you think those seats wouldn''t have been taken up by City fans on the waiting list. Do you?

[king canary 7,578]

Again, you''re missing the point.

The isolated location both brings in ''fans'' who support other teams and helps us create fans.

Say you''re a 10 year old who is into football and live in Holt. Your family aren''t huge on football and don''t have any particular club ties. You might like watching Arsenal on the TV but you want to go to games. Carrow Road is the only place within reasonable distance for you to go and watch professional football so your Mum or Dad take you and over time you forget Arsenal and become a Norwich fan.

That same 10 year old living in a town outside of Barnsley could be taken to Oakwell, Bramell Lane, Hillsborough, Elland Road, Rotherham, Huddersfield...

This is where our location helps our attendance. To deny it as a factor is just bizarre.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

That''s a theory Kingo.

I was stating the reality of your actual example.

[TCCANARY 263]

[quote user="king canary"]Again, you''re missing the point.

The isolated location both brings in ''fans'' who support other teams and helps us create fans.

Say you''re a 10 year old who is into football and live in Holt. Your family aren''t huge on football and don''t have any particular club ties. You might like watching Arsenal on the TV but you want to go to games. Carrow Road is the only place within reasonable distance for you to go and watch professional football so your Mum or Dad take you and over time you forget Arsenal and become a Norwich fan.

That same 10 year old living in a town outside of Barnsley could be taken to Oakwell, Bramell Lane, Hillsborough, Elland Road, Rotherham, Huddersfield...

This is where our location helps our attendance. To deny it as a factor is just bizarre.[/quote]A few years ago a friend who lived in Kings Lynn told me that there was a coach load of fans who travelled from KL to Leeds for every home game, does that still happen?

[king canary 7,578]

@Nutty

It isn''t a theory though- it is pretty close to my own reality, except I didn''t live in Holt and you''d have to substitute Arsenal for Newcastle. I know of many people with similar stories.

[Rogue Baboon 0]

Same here King.

Swap Holt for Yarmouth and Arsenal for Man Utd. Then one day when I was 10 my dad told me he had brought a half season ticket for us. 18 years later we are still here. Had he not brought a season ticket I doubt I would be that influenced by live football as I am now

[Hairy Canary 668]

I''m sure there are a lot more coaches travelling from King''s Lynn to Norwich than there are to Leeds.

I work with a guy who is a Liverpool fan. He was just like the 10 year old in KC''s analogy. His family didn''t like football and so he picked the most successful team during his childhood. He still supports Liverpool but goes along to City games a few times a season.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

@Kingo and Rogue

Kingo''s actual examples were Norwich City season ticket holders who are WBA fans. And younger fans whose allegiance changed the second Arsenal or United came to town.

Not you two surely?

[Woodman 92]

I have Arsenal and Watford fans who all live in Norwich (and I''ll whisper it quietly, some Ipswich ones as well). They go in small groups to most home games.

West Ham is less that a 2 hour train ride away now that they play at Stratford - the buses from KL probably take nearly as long as that to get to Carrow Road!

[king canary 7,578]

Oh my lord it is like pulling teeth with you.

Those were examples of one type of fan in the ground who is effected by our geographical location.

These are examples of another type of fan in the ground who is effected by our geographical location.

The point I''m arguing against here is the idea that suggesting our location has an affect on our attendances is not relevant.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

Thats a completely different scenario to your actual example I was talking about. If that''s like pulling teeth then the wrong one''s been extracted and I''ll have to return to the dentist tomorrow.

At 2:30......

[king canary 7,578]

Ok.

But are you accepting that our geographical location is beneficial for our attendances? That is the only point I''m arguing here after Duncan dismissed it as ''stupid and irrelevant.''

[nutty nigel 7,509]

No. For the reason I gave earlier. In good years these supporters of other teams would be replaced by Norwich fans. In bad years they would be the first to sling their hook anyway.

Norwich is a great club to support. The fact we are a community club in the true sense of the word means fans feel part of the club. This is why fans stick with the club longer than other clubs. The idea that Sheffield Utd fans would switch allegiance to Wednesday during a barren spell is ridiculous. They''d simply stop going. Once a fan always a fan.

[king canary 7,578]

See, this is where you''re missing the point and why I bought up fans like myself and Rogue- the isolated geography of Norwich means that many younger people who are first going to football or deciding which team they support really only have the one option.

I''m not talking about established fans of one team switching to another- I''m talking about the lack of local competition meaning there isn''t much of a choice in the first place. It isn''t a knock on the club, it isn''t about ''which type of fans we want in the ground'' it is about how being the only professional club in a large geographic area gives you a captive audience.

[Yorkshire Canary 118]

Twenty years ago we were getting mid teens of thousands unless it was a big game. Kids were attracted with tickets and cheap season tickets and many stayed as adults giving a very high ratio of season ticket holders to capacity. This was regardless of success. The size of the county would support a far greater capacity in good times. A combination of higher prices and limited tickets has reduced the numbers of youngsters at games now and ultimately this could impact on crowds. If there is success the ground will be full no success and the numbers could start to drift below 20 000 over the next five years

[nutty nigel 7,509]

But that''s a new point which has no relevance to your previous example. However if you want to explor that avenue perhaps you could explain why it doesn''t work for Plymouth or even the binners.

My theory is that when fans are happy they give the club credit for the great support. When they''re unhappy they do all they can do find reasons why the club still has great support. My theory stands up to scrutiny more than yours. But theyre both theories. Your actual example doesn''t bear scrutiny.

[Yorkshire Canary 118]

I think the geographical isolation of the county plays a part. Dads like to take their young kids to games it is by and large too far to take them anywhere else the kids get the bug and want to see more. If there are four or five clubs within an hours drive many may go elsewhere

[king canary 7,578]

It isn''t a new point. Here is my first post-

"Stating that we have less competition for fans due to our location is not ''playing down our attendance'' it is just a simple fact. "

That was my original point. I''m not trying to find reasons or take away credit. The club is due an awful lot of credit for some of the schemes implemented in the early 2000''s that bought in a lot of fans.

And what do you mean my example doesn''t bear scrutiny? All the actual examples I''ve given you are real example from real people. Unless you reckon I''m making them up...

[nutty nigel 7,509]

Your actual example doesn''t bear scrutiny because if these WBA fans and customers who change allegiance to Arsenal and United didn''t have season tickets their places would have been taken by Norwich supporters on the waiting list who would surely have been more likely to stick around.

[king canary 7,578]

I really have no idea what you are saying- I''ve not made any claim about them sticking around, I was just sating that they existed and that our isolated location is one of the factors that means they attend Carrow Road.

Your theory that they''d definitely be taken by dedicated Norwich fans on the waiting list is entirely hypothetical.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

So you''re saying Norwich fans on the waiting list may have turned them down. Why? Were those seats restricted view?

[Jim Smith 2,314]

I think geography is a factor, perhaps not the main factor but certainly a factor, just as its also a factor as to why Norwich has always punched above its weight as a shopping location. We have a large catchment area (although not as densely populated as some other parts of the country) with no other competing large towns or cities and so people will always gravitate to Norwich for their needs. I think that has an influence on our string attendances.

that said there are other factors as well. Norwich and Norfolk as places have a strong local identity/community, obviously the success of the team/level of excitement has an impact as well as did the pricing strategy employed back in the day which got large numbers of people (and especially young people) into the "habit" of attending Carrow Road which they have "to date" maintained.

If we stay down the two biggest threats to our attendances will be the boredom that could come with a period of mediocrity (especially if we continue to score so few goals) and disillusionment with the owners and their stubborness in dragging us down into the gutter. I think the latter could see plenty walk away in the next couple of years if things go wrong and I think sadly many of them will be longer term, hardcore supporters because they are fed up. If you want a reason for the poor atmosphere of late look no further than that.

Still at least the part timers can get in to the Brentford game for £10!

[king canary 7,578]

Every time I end up in a debate with you I end up wondering if you''re replying to a second set of invisible posts that I just can''t see.

No I don''t think people would be turning these tickets down. It''s hypothetical though as we don''t know

A- how many fans are on the waiting list

B- how many of our season ticket holders fall under the split allegiances category.

It could be that if all these fans stopped going their places would be taken and we wouldn''t see empty seats. However we don''t know that.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

Lol Kingo!

I''ve replied to the only example you gave that wasn''t hypothetical.

What''s so hard to believe about supporters being loyal to us because they feel more part of a proper community club. You will find that attendences hold up better at community clubs whatever the location. You will also find plenty of examples on here where posters criticise the fans who enjoy supporting a community club for the very reason that their support remains loyal for longer.

[king canary 7,578]

I don''t find it hard to believe at all. I entirely believe that is why most fans are at Carrow Road.

You seem to be the one who is finding it hard to believe others might have different motivations to yourself for attendance. You also seem to thing it''s in some way negative to say the club benefits from a lack of competition for fans in the area - it isn''t a negative, it''s a completely neutral statement.