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lake district canary

Attack/defence

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I''m not sure the odd goal scored against us in an issue any more. Yes

it''s disappointing to concede a goal and we don''t like seeing defenders

getting caught out, but it is always going to happen that you concede

goals.  Zimmermann has been getting criticism recently, but overall has made a good contribution this season and we have a

good range of options in defence now.  The issue is up front

and not scoring enough.  Murphy is not good enough......yet.  Whether he

ever will be is up to him, but at this level you have to be stronger

and more positive. The chance he had yesterday was so clear - he had an

empty net....why did he not just pass it straight into the goal, first

touch? He has to find a bit more gumption to his game. It looks

as if Oliveira is going to be a hot and cold player for us - and we need

more than that.  Jerome has never been that clinical in front of goal -

and we badly need  (imo) a better overall front runner.  Wildschut

appears to be a one trick pony.  No coincidence that all these

players are ones that were here before Farke arrived.  Watkins has yet

to prove himself, but imo from what I saw when he came on against

Sheffield Utd, if on form he has something to offer.  It''s a

cliche, but it is a work in progress and that it is it. Farke needs players that fit what he

is trying to do and so it will take time and several transfer

windows  to get right. Dreadful to watch though it sounds at the moment, it will surely improve, but not until certain front players either step up their game or replacements are found. 

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LDC in almost negative post shocker?

I agree, it’s just not realistic to think 1 goal would be enough every game. You will concede goals, every team does

The issue with saying that Farke will get it right after a few windows is the big worry. He need to adapt the system to the players we have now instead of waiting - after the next window we could very well be in League One if things don’t turn around soon

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[quote user="lake district canary"]it is a work in progress and that it is it. Farke needs players that fit what he

is trying to do and so it will take time and several transfer

windows  to get right. Dreadful to watch though it sounds at the moment, it will surely improve, but not until certain front players either step up their game or replacements are found.[/quote]God forbid that he gets "several transfer windows" maybe one more if he is lucky but I wouldn''t bet on him being here in January.But even so, there is nothing wrong with the ability of our squad so the best, and cheapest, option he has is to start playing to our players and squad strengths and ditch trying to put square pegs in round holes.The players hearts are just not in it & that was plain to see by the attitude of NO yesterday.

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Your right about Murphy and Oliviera!

Murphy like his brother I suspect will never have the consistency to ever be any better than they are now. In little snippets they can be devastating but overall they don''t do enough!

Oliviera isn''t helped by the system Farkes playing cause he has no service from wide areas, is often isolated up front on his own and ends up drifting out of position so when an opportunity comes to play a centreforward into a chance hes not there!

He seems to be loses interest?

As for all this "work in progress" and/or "season of transition" talk - We are sleep walking to League 1 again, 2008/09 style. While most fans expected transition and a lack of consistency this doesn''t excuse the current tactical ineptness we are seeing!

After Millwall and up to the Ipswich game, Farke showed great tactical awareness but in recent games we seem to have reverted back. Hopefully when players get fit again we can revert back to playing "proper" football again or like I said above we face a job to stay up!

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lake district canary wrote the following post at 2017-11-26 1:55 PM:

It''s a cliche, but it is a work in progress and that it is it.

So where, exactly, do you see “progress”.

Progressively, week after week, it gets worse, with little doubt. Results and the lack of goals/cutting edge/ defending, call it what you will, has not in any way, shape or form progressed.

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As for ‘work in progress’ we have scored half of the goals we had at this point last season

Not sure on the goals against figure, but I bet we haven’t concede half.

Add to that this is our worst home run since 98/99 I think and its understandable that patience is wearing thin

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[quote user="lake district canary"]I''m not sure the odd goal scored against us in an issue any more. Yes

it''s disappointing to concede a goal and we don''t like seeing defenders

getting caught out, but it is always going to happen that you concede

goals.  Zimmermann has been getting criticism recently, but overall has made a good contribution this season and we have a

good range of options in defence now.  The issue is up front

and not scoring enough.  Murphy is not good enough......yet.  Whether he

ever will be is up to him, but at this level you have to be stronger

and more positive. The chance he had yesterday was so clear - he had an

empty net....why did he not just pass it straight into the goal, first

touch? He has to find a bit more gumption to his game. It looks

as if Oliveira is going to be a hot and cold player for us - and we need

more than that.  Jerome has never been that clinical in front of goal -

and we badly need  (imo) a better overall front runner.  Wildschut

appears to be a one trick pony.  No coincidence that all these

players are ones that were here before Farke arrived.  Watkins has yet

to prove himself, but imo from what I saw when he came on against

Sheffield Utd, if on form he has something to offer.  It''s a

cliche, but it is a work in progress and that it is it. Farke needs players that fit what he

is trying to do and so it will take time and several transfer

windows  to get right. Dreadful to watch though it sounds at the moment, it will surely improve, but not until certain front players either step up their game or replacements are found. 

[/quote]

If you think the issue is only up front you definitely are deluded and it shows you don’t watch games!

Also to say a few mistakes from Zimmerman is expected? Well in the last TWO games he has been the cause of both goals conceded because he clearly isn’t at the level required! He makes Bassong look good!

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The big problem imo is that we cant currently dominate midfield to get any sort of control on the game, people criticise Tettey but he stands up and physically gets involved, his loss has been key to the downturn in results imo and to compound matters Tyrbull is now out. Not convinced by Reed at all.

A team can not have to many physically weak players or players who cant dig in at this level unless those players are hugely technically superior. In all but a few cases in the championship you have to win the right to play the way you want and we show no sign of doing that currently.

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We normally concede a goal a game so we need to be scoring at least two a game and we barely look like scoring one. Most of the goals in the run (and yesterday) cane from set pieces and Maddison wonder goals. We have a major issue crafting scoring opportunities. We’re in trouble, this has got 08/09 written all over it unless we improve.

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What''s so frustrating is in the unbeaten run I was so confident in our defence. Now it looks like any attack from the opposition could result in a goal.How has it changed?

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["Yellowbeagle"]The big problem imo is that we cant currently dominate midfield to get any sort of control on the game, people criticise Tettey but he stands up and physically gets involved, his loss has been key to the downturn in results imo and to compound matters Tyrbull is now out. Not convinced by Reed at all.

A team can not have to many physically weak players or players who cant dig in at this level unless those players are hugely technically superior. In all but a few cases in the championship you have to win the right to play the way you want and we show no sign of doing that currently.

This is oh so true and exactly what Farke realised after Millwall!

The sooner Tetty and Trybull comeback the better!

Also Farke needs to give Wildshut a run in the team at right wing and play Hoolahan in the hole if hes to play!

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["Hoola Han Solo"]We normally concede a goal a game so we need to be scoring at least two a game and we barely look like scoring one. Most of the goals in the run (and yesterday) cane from set pieces and Maddison wonder goals. We have a major issue crafting scoring opportunities. We’re in trouble, this has got 08/09 written all over it unless we improve.

Very true unfortunately!

Without a lucky deflected goal against Barnsley and yesterday decentish free Kick against Preston which I''m convinced was a "bread and butter" save for the keeper we have not looked like scoring!

Playing without widemen, asking the centreforward to work which means constantly running out of position and the general slow, non pressing nature of our play is it any wonder we don''t create chances?

The last two homes have gained 2 points against poor opposition and Forest were nothing special last Tuesday. Like you hint upon, this is relegation form!

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[quote user="worsethandeath"]What''s so frustrating is in the unbeaten run I was so confident in our defence. Now it looks like any attack from the opposition could result in a goal.How has it changed?[/quote]

No protection in front of them.

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We now have all eleven men back to defend corners and still to no effect. I really hate this tactic, Preston were able to leave one man back on his own, if we left three up four Preston defenders would stay back, allowing us to break quickly (in theory) and less crowding in our box. It seems so obviously wrong, so am I missing something?

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Work in progress it may be. But it''s not progress from what we were watching last season. Have no choice but to buy into it, but come on, does anybody really enjoy this more than the attacking football under Adams and then Neil?

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]Work in progress it may be. But it''s not progress from what we were watching last season. Have no choice but to buy into it, but come on, does anybody really enjoy this more than the attacking football under Adams and then Neil?[/quote]As oppossed to work that is not in progess I supposeEvery squad is progressing. Sticking a vacuous cliche onto it doesn''t disguise that you think that the squad, team play/formation is not up to it.If so, why not just say so ?

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There''s nothing wrong with our strike force, it''s down to this tippy tappy football we play. It''s too easy for defenders who are set and waiting for the attack to happen.RAF Wing Commander Charles Reep came up with this game plan.Reep developed a number of concepts describing effective long ball play.

''Gulleys'' refer to the optimum position between the corner flag and six

yard box from which to make the final pass into the penalty box; the

''3-pass optimization rule'' emerges from the fact that a higher

percentage of goals are scored in moves involving only three passes

prior to the shot; the ''9 shots per goal'' maxim, stating that on

average, only one goal is scored for every nine shots; and the ''twelve

point three yard'' position,

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Work in progress it may be. But it''s not progress from what we were watching last season. Have no choice but to buy into it, but come on, does anybody really enjoy this more than the attacking football under Adams and then Neil?

No. And the defending is on;y marginally better.

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[quote user="Rhubarb"][quote user="nutty nigel"]Work in progress it may be. But it''s not progress from what we were watching last season. Have no choice but to buy into it, but come on, does anybody really enjoy this more than the attacking football under Adams and then Neil?[/quote]As oppossed to work that is not in progess I supposeEvery squad is progressing. Sticking a vacuous cliche onto it doesn''t disguise that you think that the squad, team play/formation is not up to it.If so, why not just say so ?[/quote]
Sorry not to respond sooner. Mrs Nutty was using the dictionary to press flowers. Having looked up vacuous I think you''re post is a load of old tripe in my language[;)]
I said what I feel at Carrow Road this season when the final whistle blows. I didn''t say the squad, team play/formation is not up to it because that''s not how I feel. Hence the reference to work in progress. Pontificating about such things as work in progress is fine for someone who has no real vested interest in being entertained or even for the middle of the week reflections. But work in progress isn''t enough to stop me being disappointed by what I watch. It''s especially poignant (that''s more of Mrs Nutty''s flowers on the floor!) for me because I loved how we played under Adams and Neil. Those who didn''t perhaps find it easier to identify with work in progress at the games.
My later reflection is that we have the youngest people I can ever remember running the football club. Younger people tend to react quicker because a passage of time is comparatively shorter in their world than in mine. So I have faith that they are best placed to see and act if it''s not working and I still buy into this new project. However I think I''m entitled to be a bit disappointed as well.

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[quote user="Alfie54"]We now have all eleven men back to defend corners and still to no effect. I really hate this tactic, Preston were able to leave one man back on his own, if we left three up four Preston defenders would stay back, allowing us to break quickly (in theory) and less crowding in our box. It seems so obviously wrong, so am I missing something?[/quote]

A good point. Most teams leave at least one player up. The tactic might be defensible if it were seen to be effective but the reality is that we keep conceding soft goals from corners.

Despite having more tall players at the back, the weakness seems at least as bad this season. We have two problems that can be fixed without being able to sign new players:

1. Ditch zonal marking. It did not look good at the pre-season match I went to (Charlton) but at least one thought that the players might get used to it in time. half a year on from the new management team''s arrival, it seems worse than ever and the free header for Preston on Saturday was all too predictable.

2. Spend all week at Colney coaching Angus Gunn to come out for high balls. While he has been good for us in so many ways, the Preston match featured further examples of him being rooted to the line while dangerous balls came close to him.

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I''m glad someone has picked up on us bringing all eleven back for free kicks and corners. It makes no sense to me to have someone like Murphy or Hoolahan back when they''re not going to win a header or put a strong tackle in if the ball falls to a player if the first header is cleared.

Leave Murphy on the half way line and if we do win the ball, he''s quick enough to beat most players for speed, and if needed, support can come from Pinto, Maddison or Oliveira who is surprisingly quick when he gets going (or can be bothered).

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It amazes me that a professional dancer on SCD can teach somebody who has never danced before in their lives to become almost as good as a professional dancer in 2 or 3 months whilst on the other hand, in more of less the same period of time, a so called qualified football coach can''t teach a squad of professional football players, who have been playing professional football for most of their lives, to play football. [;)]

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[quote user="Woodman"]I''m glad someone has picked up on us bringing all eleven back for free kicks and corners. It makes no sense to me to have someone like Murphy or Hoolahan back when they''re not going to win a header or put a strong tackle in if the ball falls to a player if the first header is cleared.

Leave Murphy on the half way line and if we do win the ball, he''s quick enough to beat most players for speed, and if needed, support can come from Pinto, Maddison or Oliveira who is surprisingly quick when he gets going (or can be bothered).[/quote]If Murphy and Hoolahan can''t put in a tackle to avoid ceding unchallenged second ball possession at set pieces then they shouldn''t be on the pitch. Many of our problems stem from precisely this kind of defensive ineptness, characteristic of too many of our midfielders over the last five years. 

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]Work in progress it may be. But it''s not progress from what we were watching last season. Have no choice but to buy into it, but come on, does anybody really enjoy this more than the attacking football under Adams and then Neil?[/quote] I see a lot of posts saying there''s no visible progress, no discernible evidence that what Webber and Farke have been brought in to do is working. Maybe this lack of evidence is due to people making erroneous assumptions about what the priorities are right now? If you are looking for the wrong thing, it''s no wonder you don''t find it. An example would be those who keep saying that Farke should be adapting his approach to suit the strengths of the current players. Whereas in reality Farke''s brief is to oversee the development of a team capable, over time, of playing a certain way successfully and entertainingly. There''s no shortage of evidence that some of our current players are ill-suited to playing that way; progress will be off-loading them and signing replacements who are. 

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I tend to agree that they should be able to put their foot in where it hurts, but in the wider scheme of things, that''s not what their primary role is in the team. No one thought Huckerby was in the team for his tackling or heading ability.

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Westie, there is no doubt that the work will progress over much longer than weve seen so far. We have been told it will take several transfer windows to get a squad balanced to suit the project. This is why I buy into what is a long term vision for the club.

However I still have a short term season ticket and am disappointed by the football I am seeing. And I much preferred the football under Neil and Adams.

It''s possible to have both views.

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[quote user="Woodman"]I tend to agree that they should be able to put their foot in where it hurts, but in the wider scheme of things, that''s not what their primary role is in the team. No one thought Huckerby was in the team for his tackling or heading ability.[/quote]Neither Murphy nor Hoolahan are anywhere near having the "special weapon" status of Hucks at that time. Adam Drury gave an interview some time ago in which he explained how the rest of the team stepped up specifically to compensate for Hucks'' lack of contribution elsewhere. If Murphy was giving us anything near what Hucks gave us, it would be equally worth compensating for, but we''d then need the sort of defensive contribution from the other midfielders that you say Hoolahan can''t give us. 

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]Westie, there is no doubt that the work will progress over much longer than weve seen so far. We have been told it will take several transfer windows to get a squad balanced to suit the project. This is why I buy into what is a long term vision for the club.

However I still have a short term season ticket and am disappointed by the football I am seeing. And I much preferred the football under Neil and Adams.

It''s possible to have both views.[/quote]Nutty, if you were one of those whose only requirement is to be entertained by a certain style of football, leavened by a sufficient balance of wins to draws and losses to keep them happy, you wouldn''t need to buy into the change of direction at all; continuing with the same old hit or miss succession of old-style "I want total charge" managers would likely keep you renewing your season ticket secure in the knowledge that if X doesn''t serve up the entertaining fare you want, he''ll soon be sacked and Y will take his place with instructions to serve up the same old but a bit better. And so on, whether in the EPL, Championship, League One or Two, or wherever (you can, after all, be entertained at any level).
On the other hand, if you really did buy into the change of direction, you''d recognise that insisting on being served your comfortably entertaining football at every stage of the process is wanting to have your cake and eat it. 

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