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Rogue Baboon

Barnsley...

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Unfortunately money does matter, I am not being critical of the current owners here, it is a fact. As Iwans Big Toe says, wage demands are on the increase and it is percolating through the leagues. The owner of Peterborough has commented that even non league players, with no league experience whatsoever are turning their noses up at the wages on offer, whereas in the past they would have crawled over hot coals for the chance of signing for a league side.

If we fail to achieve promotion back to the Premiership this year, it is naive to think that if we are to compete with other clubs in the Championship we do not need an injection of cash, and it is equally naive to think an investor is going to just provide finance without getting something in return........

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[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="TIL 1010"]Goodness me Lakey that post had so much wrong with it i have lost the will to reply.[/quote]You just did [;)]The finances are what they are and it has been shown over and over again that a simple investment will not be enough, even selling to someone with a couple of hundred million would not be enough to make a huge difference - it simply needs someone with bottomless pockets - £1000 million plus over two or three years to make the kind of difference that would see us up there competing for the best players and paying the top wages - and that still might not get us promoted, given the other clubs in the championship who have huge amounts of money going into their clubs. We would need a ridiculously large amount of money - and for what?  Will people be happy with that?  Not if we don''t succeed.   People mentioned Swansea and Newcastle.  When Swansea got promoted, they had spent several seasons working up a particular style of play that would sustain them in the PL - and it worked.  We had nothing in 2009 apart from desire to succeed - a strong attribute to have, but it was not based on a sustainable way of playing football in the PL. Newcastle are Newcastle - always throwing vast amounts of money around, not something that their fans particularly like - especially when half the time their team struggles to live up to their expectations. Our best bet is to do what Swansea did - develop a successful style of football. That is not reliant mainly on money - it is reliant on people, an ethos and a plan.  It looks to me as if we have the right kind of people, the right ethos and a plan. 

[/quote]
But it would make a positive difference, given the comparative lack of any wealth or investment from our current owners. Sure you need bottomless pockets to become Man City, Chelsea or Man United, but a moderate investment of a few hundred million would be enough to establish a mid-table EPL side, along with all the extra money that then brings in.
By comparison, our owners are investing nothing, so we''re having to sell our best players which in turn reduces the likelihood of success on the pitch and all that follows...
It does make me sad when people try and explain away this kind of investment in other clubs when we are in such dire need of it. We''ll just never get it while Delia clings on to power over her train set.

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A moderate investment of a few hundred million to become a mid-table side. I agree; seems feasible.

It won’t be enough though.

After two seasons of mid-tableness under Lambert and Hughton we wanted “the next step” and along came Hooper, Wolf, Fer and relegation.

I do understand the desire to compete at the highest level and to be the best that we can be but thinking that the fans would somehow be satisfied with the life sapping experience of losing half your games every season and seeing zero sign of progress (like Stoke, West Brom etc) is fanciful in the extreme.

A prolonged period of watching us lose more than we win even in the Premier League would see discontent and threats of non-renewal just as much as our current plight does.

Tottenham fans are currently going batshit because they aren’t “competing”. All while they play in the Champions League and their home games at Wembley....

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"so we''re having to sell our best players which in turn reduces the likelihood of success on the pitch and all that follows..."quite disgraceful tatI cannot imagine there is any other club where players move from for better payNext thing you know players will be joining us on the same basisfunny old game, innit ?

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[quote user="Canary Wundaboy"][quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="TIL 1010"]Goodness me Lakey that post had so much wrong with it i have lost the will to reply.[/quote]You just did [;)]The finances are what they are and it has been shown over and over again that a simple investment will not be enough, even selling to someone with a couple of hundred million would not be enough to make a huge difference - it simply needs someone with bottomless pockets - £1000 million plus over two or three years to make the kind of difference that would see us up there competing for the best players and paying the top wages - and that still might not get us promoted, given the other clubs in the championship who have huge amounts of money going into their clubs. We would need a ridiculously large amount of money - and for what?  Will people be happy with that?  Not if we don''t succeed.   People mentioned Swansea and Newcastle.  When Swansea got promoted, they had spent several seasons working up a particular style of play that would sustain them in the PL - and it worked.  We had nothing in 2009 apart from desire to succeed - a strong attribute to have, but it was not based on a sustainable way of playing football in the PL. Newcastle are Newcastle - always throwing vast amounts of money around, not something that their fans particularly like - especially when half the time their team struggles to live up to their expectations. Our best bet is to do what Swansea did - develop a successful style of football. That is not reliant mainly on money - it is reliant on people, an ethos and a plan.  It looks to me as if we have the right kind of people, the right ethos and a plan. 

[/quote]
But it would make a positive difference, given the comparative lack of any wealth or investment from our current owners. Sure you need bottomless pockets to become Man City, Chelsea or Man United, but a moderate investment of a few hundred million would be enough to establish a mid-table EPL side, along with all the extra money that then brings in.
By comparison, our owners are investing nothing, so we''re having to sell our best players which in turn reduces the likelihood of success on the pitch and all that follows...
It does make me sad when people try and explain away this kind of investment in other clubs when we are in such dire need of it. We''ll just never get it while Delia clings on to power over her train set.
[/quote]

It''s not a train set, it''s a football club representing the city, community and hundreds of people directly involved in the way of employment - a responsibiity which any owner has to take very seriously.  Demeaning her in this way is to belittle the work and commitment she and her husband have put into the club.  Also, you are missing the point that a simple investor is not going to put "a few hundred million" - unless they are a true fan - and what true Norwich fan has that kind of money?  Of course in an ideal world it would be great for some benefactor come in and give

us a couple of hundred million to give us a boost, but it isn''t going

to happen. The only way any kind of investment would work would be for a someone to take the club on a long term journey that would involve a complete takeover of massive proportions - and even that is not guaranteed success when there are so many other clubs who have had large investment.  It is a simple fact that money does not guarantee success any more - there are too many other clubs who have money. So if we sold out and joined the "haves" instead of the "have nots", does that increase our chance of promotion?  Not unless the footballing ethos is right, a good coaching set up is in there and everyone is working together.  Now it seems to me that we can have those three attributes without huge amounts of money - in fact the set up as we have it now has those three attributes imo - it just needs time to develop.

 

  

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Of course it isn’t. The point I’m making is that football fans are fickle. All of them.

The notion that we’d suddenly be cock-a-hoop finishing between 9th and 16th year after year just doesn’t stand up to scrutiny; it wouldn’t happen.

Arsenal have NEVER left the top flight and qualified for the Champions League about 863 years in a row but it wasn’t enough and still isn’t. They’ve got ridiculously rich people at the helm, a world class manager and players like Ozil (World Cup winner) and Alexis and Lacazette and the best stadium in the country but their fans are more up in arms than ours.

They, like us, “just want to be competitive and see some decent football”.

The problem is, for us, Arsenal, Spurs and every club is that translates - if we’re being brutally honest - to “we just want to win”.

I’m not being critical of those that want change, perhaps it is what is needed; maybe they’re right. But suggesting getting to mid table in the Premier to plateau would be enough definitely is wrong.

And eventually, we’d still get relegated. Like Villa did. Like Sunderland did. Like Swansea, Palace, Watford and Burnley all will too.

Three teams go down no matter how many billionaires there are. If all 92 clubs were owned by Chinese billionaires there’d still be promotions, relegations, highs and lows.

Somebody suggested that a closed Premier League would be the next step. That’s probably right. That or a European super league. Neither of which we’d be invited to. The closed Prem is probably more likely, a bit like the yanks do. Then with no risk of huge differences in income year on year, the top clubs will operate within their budgets and with no risk.

How many teams would that league have to have in it for us to be involved? Even if the Sultan of Brunei bought Delia Out?

40?

Anyway; I’m going off at a tangent.

Folk will say that we should at least try and cite whichever team is flying highest against the odds at that time. A few years ago fans of other clubs were saying “but look at Norwich..” after we went from L1 to Prem and then finished mid table.

They were wrong, just like those that said “look at the intent” of Middlesbrough were wrong and so on and so on.

If money is the answer, is anyone actually rich enough? I’m depressing myself now....

Sorry for waffling on.

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whoopee do !

and what have they achieved ?

they have won some games, they have lost some games

Dearie, Dearie Me.

More revelations to come from the idiots guide to football....

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[quote user="Hoola Han Solo"]Lakey. I’m curious as to why you’re obsessed that any new owners of Norwich City HAVE to be NCFC fans?[/quote]

It''s not an obsession, but it is desireable that owners have some kind of affiliation to the club, or at least the area.  That said, there is no reason why a prospective investor shouldn''t look at the clubs available to invest in, like what he sees at Norwich and thinks, right, I like this club enough to invest in - and effectively become a fan. Every fan has to start somewhere.  But the chances of finding an owner like that is slim - many investors are just speculators and have no interest in the locality of the club or it''s fans. The worst kind of speculator will try and inflict his own personality on the club as with Tan at Cardiff, or declare war on the fans like at Hull. Be careful what you wish for.Getting an investment in is fine - but finding the right one is the problem and I''d far rather that we stick with the self-sustaining model the club has now than risk ruining the club in the chase for a quick buck.  Money in itself does not solve anything - getting investment without the right ethos behind it is worse than getting no investment at all.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="JF"]Or the Swansea that have spent 7 years on the bounce in The Premiership or the Newcastle that have spent only 2 seasons outside The Premiership in 25 years ?

7 years on the bounce after again being promoted the same season as us.[/quote]
These are the current teams we wish we were along with the consecutive seasons we''ve been wishing. You''ll notice the huge turnover of clubs. After ten years Sunderland now wish they were one of these. But in May there''ll be three new ones on the list and three from the list wishing they were them.

Stoke 10

WBA 8

Swansea 7

Southampton 6

West Ham 6

Palace 5

Leicester 4

Bournemouth 3

Watford 3

Burnley 2

Newcastle 1

Brighton 1

Huddersfield 1

[/quote]No Nutty it was not a reference to clubs we wish we were but an answer by myself and JF to the three clubs that City1st named in his post i.e. Newcastle,Swansea and West Brom.

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Nutty - you can guarantee that if/when any of those come down they will have built more of a legacy in terms of club infrastructure than we have. We have literally "p**sed it up the wall" and to boot have completely wasted our two seasons with parachute payments due to incompetence.

I would humbly submit that maybe owners who "care about the club" are not always as successful as those who perhaps have a harder edged approach based on mutually beneficial success. I have no doubt at all that Smith and Jones care about the club a lot but they also don''t really seem to have any real drive or ambition for it other than to exist.

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Jimbo, when we were peeing ours up against the wall you were suggesting we went further. Now you look back and suggest we didn''t go so far. As for what other clubs achieved, in 2014 we were relegated with Cardiff and Fulham. How ever hard you try to can''t convince me we didn''t achieve the most out of that trio.

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There''s a 50-50 chance that Barnsley could, or could not, be succesful with the money but there''s probably a 100% chance that they won''t be succesful without it.

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[quote user="lake district canary"]

It''s not a train set, it''s a football club representing the city, community and hundreds of people directly involved in the way of employment - a responsibiity which any owner has to take very seriously.[/quote]How long will it be then Lakey with our current direction of travel before some of those '' hundreds of people '' are looking for alternative employment ? After all you have just stated it is the owners responsibility to take seriously.

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[quote user="lake district canary"]

It''s not a train set, it''s a football club representing the city, community and hundreds of people directly involved in the way of employment - a responsibiity which any owner has to take very seriously.[/quote]How long will it be then Lakey with our current direction of travel before some of those '' hundreds of people '' are looking for alternative employment ? After all you have just stated it is the owners responsibility to take seriously.

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The situation is much more serious than we are lead to believe and the future will be very difficult for Master Tom.

Could say we had it all and blew it

Lots of mistakes made by the BOD

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[quote user="daly"]The situation is much more serious than we are lead to believe and the future will be very difficult for Master Tom.

Could say we had it all and blew it

Lots of mistakes made by the BOD[/quote]it could be worsewe could be the thieving binnersthough I doubt if City fans would be up for nicking off a charity or fiddling the taxman

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[quote user="Jim Smith"]Nutty - you can guarantee that if/when any of those come down they will have built more of a legacy in terms of club infrastructure than we have. We have literally "p**sed it up the wall" and to boot have completely wasted our two seasons with parachute payments due to incompetence.

I would humbly submit that maybe owners who "care about the club" are not always as successful as those who perhaps have a harder edged approach based on mutually beneficial success. I have no doubt at all that Smith and Jones care about the club a lot but they also don''t really seem to have any real drive or ambition for it other than to exist.[/quote]
Can''t add much to that Jim.

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I can,

After 20 years of running a football club they are still as clueless as the day they walked in, recent things include Moxey, Alex Neil getting better terms after being relegated and having to bring in outside help just to complete a transfer.

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Hey here''s an idea. Let''s change our club colours to incorporate red somehow. I am quite sure these billionaire investors are not as turned on by yellow and green as they are with the colour red. [;)][:D]

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[quote user="Hoola Han Solo"]Lakey. I’m curious as to why you’re obsessed that any new owners of Norwich City HAVE to be NCFC fans?[/quote]I can''t speak for Lakey but I would want any future owners to be fans and would be highly cautious of an individual or group that bought us as "an investment."1. Investors want a return - in the long run they want to take money out of the club. If I buy shares in a firm, I don''t care tuppence about the long term of the firm, just whether or not, I will make a profit. 2. Investors have little interest in the long term future of the club, merely that they either make a profit or recover their initial investment - which opens a number of painful possibilities if initial expenditure fails to secure the desired results. 3. What we really want is Father Christmas; a patron or benefactor: not an investor. They are in pretty short supply.

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[quote user="DDD In The Fine City"]http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42426661

These bloody investors nothing but trouble[/quote]Did you read the link you provided?Simon Chadwick, a professor of sport enterprise at Salford University, said

"This is not a random purchase; it is not a

sugar-daddy purchase; it is not a vanity purchase. There will be very

clear economic and strategic reasons for buying the club.

"There is not just interest in football, but interests in broader industrial, economic and commercial opportunities beyond that. Getting

to the Premier League will be important but in my experience of the

Chinese and their investors, football is a means to an end, not an end

in itself.
"

The HS2 rail line through South Yorkshire, a

multi-million pound retail scheme in the town and a drive to boost

tourism in the area in the coming years all "fit the bill" according to

Chadwick
.

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