Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
lake district canary

Playing by numbers

Recommended Posts

We have good players and they appear to be playing by numbers at the moment - in other

words they are not yet comfortable with what is required of them. We had the same kind of thing with Hughton - an apparently stilted way of playing......why?  Because the respective managers

were/are trying to instill a footballing culture that they know will eventually be

successful and long lasting.  Hughton ran out of time under the pressure of being in the

PL to achieve success in his project - imo Farke will be given time to get it right - he needs to and the club need to see it through. It was a horrible defeat tonight, but the project still has to be on and things have to improve, either next game or the game after that, or the game after that.  It may be a tough season, but that is the bottom line. There is no easy fix, the coach and players will have to sort it out over the next few weeks.  It may be a lowly finish if they don''t do it soon, but equally there is still an opportunity to improve in what is a long season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You are a clapper par excellence. This isn’t a project that needs bedding in - it’s a totally naive tactical approach that just doesn’t work in this physical and challenging division. There is no plan b and it is getting worse not better. If it is so effective why aren’t other clubs adopting it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="lake district canary"]imo Farke will be given time to get it right[/quote]Logic says he''ll be spending Xmas in Germany & not coming back.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Why do things have to improve? We could just be shit and get the results that we deserve. I saw no evidence again tonight of why we should expect improvement

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Positivity is one thing LDC but this is delusional.

By what logic can you say “things have to improve”. No they don’t sadly there is still room for us to get yet worse and that is the direction of travel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This bloke isn''t half the manager Hughton is, you''re stating we have good players again? Earlier today Barnsley and Sunderland had players good enough to make the play offs too but in reality are nearer the bottom like us, you really haven''t a clue about football you''ve proved it yourself, good work clap clap clap clap!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So LDC, give us a single example of where things have improved from last season along with a simple explanation of why things might get better.

Defence is still awful. Attacking has got orders of magnitude worse and neither show any sign of changing.

There is just nothing a all to suggest that Webber and Farke can turn this around....not unless we can afford to bring in a squad of to notch Bundeslige players who can actually play Farke''s brand of football.

Until that point we will always be bringing in sub-standard players who will never "get it" and Farke''s project will never end.

Polishing turds springs to mind here!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I''m not trying to totally exonerate lakey here, but, in Wagners first 30 games at Huddersfield he only managed 10 wins, the next season they get promoted. It won''t necessarily be the same for us, but, we still fairly near the start of a major upheaval, we throw it away now then we have to reheave to get back to the same setup we were in.

Our big problem is a lack of goals, yet we have had loads of shots, I think before tonight we had the second worst conversion in the league! Some of that may be down to hit and hopes but it does show that we need someone who can actually hit the barn door in January and not rely on a flouncer who has a conversion rate worse than a medieval priest in Arabia...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don’t care what Wagner did at Huddersfield. It has no relevance here

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="cornish sam"]I''m not trying to totally exonerate lakey here, but, in Wagners first 30 games at Huddersfield he only managed 10 wins, the next season they get promoted. It won''t necessarily be the same for us, but, we still fairly near the start of a major upheaval, we throw it away now then we have to reheave to get back to the same setup we were in.

Our big problem is a lack of goals, yet we have had loads of shots, I think before tonight we had the second worst conversion in the league! Some of that may be down to hit and hopes but it does show that we need someone who can actually hit the barn door in January and not rely on a flouncer who has a conversion rate worse than a medieval priest in Arabia...[/quote]LOFL. We are fcuking shit.Let''s not beat around the bush.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
We have created at least one golden chance in all our home games that hasnt been taken but I dont think any team that comes to carrow road feels like theyve had a tough time, under the cosh etc.

Hucks knows what he is saying and he thinks we are in for a relegation battle. With the premier league just two seasons ago that isnt acceptable and regardless of any transition season is not a good sign.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JF - I would disagree, what Wagner did at Huddersfield is relevant in two ways, it was a major change in culture and structure and it shows that it can (not will I agree) be wise to give a bit more time than most fans allow.

Pants - I don''t get to see many games, OK, we are * but why are we *? Purely looking at stats we should be doing alright, we have possession, we have shots, not many on target, but we should be doing better than we are. Is the problem the build up play is too slow and we just end up shooting from distance (for example)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The number of times we were caught offside in the first half seemed symptomatic of a lack of concentration and focus throughout the team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="cornish sam"]JF - I would disagree, what Wagner did at Huddersfield is relevant in two ways, it was a major change in culture and structure and it shows that it can (not will I agree) be wise to give a bit more time than most fans allow.

Pants - I don''t get to see many games, OK, we are * but why are we *? Purely looking at stats we should be doing alright, we have possession, we have shots, not many on target, but we should be doing better than we are. Is the problem the build up play is too slow and we just end up shooting from distance (for example)?[/quote]. As I have said before our squad is more than capable at this level, but Farke has absolutely no idea about tactics and style of play to succeed in the Championship. Huddersfield in the Champ played a high tempo pressing game, pass and move. Farke''s style is slow possession football with no end product. We''re nothing like Huddersfield, nothing like them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For me tonight was about the stark contrast between ourselves (slow build up, backwards, sideways possession football without really putting the opposition under pressure) and Brentford (incisive, quick on the break). We appear to have been sussed out big time, basically we do not put the opposition under any pressure, they know that if they press us our sideways, backwards passing will break down, they hit us at pace and score and can then just sit back and pick us off as we press for an equaliser........

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB"]For me tonight was about the stark contrast between ourselves (slow build up, backwards, sideways possession football without really putting the opposition under pressure) and Brentford (incisive, quick on the break). We appear to have been sussed out big time, basically we do not put the opposition under any pressure, they know that if they press us our sideways, backwards passing will break down, they hit us at pace and score and can then just sit back and pick us off as we press for an equaliser........[/quote]

So then is it that the players aren''t good enough for the style of play they''re being asked to play (lacking the guile to avoid the press) or is it that this style will never work in the champs? Or even, are there a couple of players who aren''t up to the champs and slow everything down meaning we have no other option than the slow sideways passing as the oppo have got organised by the time we get forwards? We have scored some very good fast breaking goals this year but they are certainly the exception rather than norm...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
@LDC

Your opinions might hold some weight if they weren''t so ball achingly predictable.

The last 4 managers you''ve said the exact same thing ''more time, more time, more time.'' You were wrong about giving Neil more time, you were wrong about giving Hughton more time and you''re wrong about giving Farke more time.

Football management is a short term business- if your philosophy or style need 12-18 months to deliver even passable results then you''re not a good football manager.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="king canary"]@LDC

Your opinions might hold some weight if they weren''t so ball achingly predictable.

The last 4 managers you''ve said the exact same thing ''more time, more time, more time.'' You were wrong about giving Neil more time, you were wrong about giving Hughton more time and you''re wrong about giving Farke more time.

Football management is a short term business- if your philosophy or style need 12-18 months to deliver even passable results then you''re not a good football manager.[/quote]

Yes, it is predictable - I would probably have given Worthy time to turn it round too.  I hate the short termism in football.  You get the right man in and you stick with him through thick and thin - and if the players don''t do it for him, move them on, not the coach/manager.  Hughton and Neil are both proving themselves since leaving and Hughton would more than likely got us back up within a season or two - Neil would have done a fair job of rebuilding this season too imo.  Imo you need three years to rebuild a club - Hughton had two in the most pressurised of situations, Neil had two - again with that pressure of immediate success.  Lambert had three years, but he didn''t build a squad capable of sustaining the levels he had got them to in a fourth year (imo). The Farke/Webber project needs three years to find it''s level.  Give them less than that and you might as well not have bothered in the first place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wagner took over a team in 18th and kept them there for 8 months, without a full preseason.

Farke has taken a team who finished 8th into a relegation battle despite having a full preseason to get his ideas across to the players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You need three years to rebuild a club? Any evidence or examples to back that up? Others seem to do it much quicker.

Also neither Hughton or Neil needed to ''rebuild'' anything.

The Webber project isn''t intrinsically linked to Farke. The whole idea of the structure is that managers have less control so if we need to get rid of one it doesn''t mean we have to blow everything up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 years of this and we will be rebuilding to get out of league 1

The comparison to Huddersfield is completely irrelevant. Just because it went well there after a poor start doesn’t mean it will here. Different club, different manager and players, the only constant is Webber and he is looking to be a fraud

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="king canary"]You need three years to rebuild a club? Any evidence or examples to back that up? Others seem to do it much quicker.

Also neither Hughton or Neil needed to ''rebuild'' anything.

The Webber project isn''t intrinsically linked to Farke. The whole idea of the structure is that managers have less control so if we need to get rid of one it doesn''t mean we have to blow everything up.[/quote]

It''s an old argument, but Hughton was brought in to bring the football throughout the club to a more sophisticated level in the long term - it was too much for him, given we were in the PL at the time.  Neil was seen as a long term appointment too - he had a great start, only to fall back - much like Burnley under Dyche - but where Dyche managed to get Burnley straight back up, Neil couldn''t do that....but we had a fantastic scoring record last season and if he had been allowed to carry on and rebuild, there is no reason to suppose he couldn''t have got as back up this season. Dyche has been a longer term success story - and at a club who don''t have massive resources either. Yes, if there are no improved results as the season goes on, Farke will be at risk of his job, but no rebuild is sorted out in the first months - it has to be seen as a long term thing - imo you will see the best results over three years - a year to get the right players in and establish the principles, the second year to get some momentum and the third year to really get the best results.  If things go well, we might get promotion in the second year - all well and good.......imo we still have an opportunity this season, but things have to start improving from now on.  Yesterday has to be the lowest point of the season - any more like that and the writing will be on the wall for Farke.  But in an ideal world he - and many managers - need three years to show their best results.  Quick fix managers are few and far between, that is why Pardew and Allerdyce keep popping up all the time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So that would be no to the evidence or examples then.

As for Neil- of course there is "reason to suppose he couldn''t have got as back up this season." He had two seasons to get the defence sorted and couldn''t do it, failed to get much out of Pritchard and Maddison and had shown an inability to get the team out of slumps.

Your ''if we give Neil/Hughton/Farke more time'' argument is based on blind faith and nothing else. Farke has so far shown nothing to suggest he''ll turn it around given more time, Neil had shown an inability to make the defence work and terrible acumen in the transfer market, while Hughton made our attack progressively worse the longer he had.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="lake district canary"]The Farke/Webber project needs three years to find it''s level.  Give them less than that and you might as well not have bothered in the first place. [/quote]They ain''t gonna get 3 years. I can''t believe that when they were appointed they went to the Board and said "Look guys, this is going to take 3 years to come to fruition, is that ok?" And the Board replied "yes that''s fine Mr Webber & Mr Farke, that is just what we''re looking for"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Making Plans"][quote user="lake district canary"]The Farke/Webber project needs three years to find it''s level.  Give them less than that and you might as well not have bothered in the first place. [/quote]They ain''t gonna get 3 years. I can''t believe that when they were appointed they went to the Board and said "Look guys, this is going to take 3 years to come to fruition, is that ok?" And the Board replied "yes that''s fine Mr Webber & Mr Farke, that is just what we''re looking for"[/quote]

Equally, you wouldn''t want them to say "rebuild the squad under your totally new to us way of doing things....oh and get us promoted this season or you are out".   So the project takes them at least in to the second year. Then if there are improvements next year, then on to the third year where yes, you would expect success in terms of promotion, or at least a very strong season. That is a long term view.  The short term view is get rid because we are doing badly, get someone else in and do the same as soon as there is a bad spell.  For goodness sake, it isn''t that long since a club record was broken!  Things have to improve, but "getting rid" of anyone (except maybe a player or two) at this stage is short termism at it''s worst.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="lake district canary"]Equally, you wouldn''t want them to say "rebuild the squad under your totally new to us way of doing things....oh and get us promoted this season or you are out".   [/quote]According to Webber promotion was always the target this season not in 3 years time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...