About 30th down the football food chain

[Yorkshire Canary 118]

Its January and lots of hype about players coming and going. I have supported this club for a long time and sometimes reality hurts a bit. Firstly we have never been an established top flight club and probably never will be. At best we are a yo yo club that may have the odd few seasons in the top flight. We have always been a selling club and right now are about 30th ish in the country in terms of spending power. But that means there are about 60 worse than us so lets just enjoy the journey which is always a roller coaster. We snatch disaster from the jaws of success but prosper when least expected to do so

[DDD In The Fine City 1]

My understanding is we are about 40th in terms of rich owner and club worth, either way it''s not good enough for a club that can sell 27k tickets in league 1

[Guest]

In terms of ownership or majority shareholding I don''t think we are as high as 40th. Looking on Wikipedia at shareholder wealth, we don''t rank very highly at all. But of course some shareholders of clubs may well be giga rich but have small amount of shares. For instance the late Duke of Westminster had shares in CAmbridge United.

But in terms of value of the club itself, including playing staff market value I would imagine we are definitely in the top 40.

[Badger 2,270]

I agree completely Yorkshire Canary. "Spending power" is a bit of a nebulous concept concept but I would think that in the top 30 is a reasonable statement of our position once parachute payments have been exhausted.Deloitte''s Annual Review of Football Finance 2017says that the average revenue of Championship clubs in 2015-16 was 23.4 million which includes parachute payments - we will be well above this average even when parachute payments have ended. Despite some managers complaining about the "uneven playing field" created by these payments, the benefit does not seem to be that great - the report points out that,"only five of the 15 clubs relegated from the Premier League over the five seasons from 2011/12, have regained promotion from the Championship.Furthermore, since 2014/15, three clubs in receipt of parachute payments have been relegated to League 1"This would suggest that most clubs like ourselves have "dead wood" and have had to go through the same painful experience of restructuring that is currently happening to City. The accounts and information provided at the AGM show that this process is well under way. I understand the fears that many seem to have, and of course, it is entirely possible that any team in the championship could be relegated to league One. However, far from being inevitable as some suggest, I think that there is a greater chance that we will be promoted in the next few years than being relegated - we have a high "natural turnover" for this division and no structural debt.As you say, let''s enjoy the roller coaster!

[king canary 6,432]

Looking at the figures at projections from the AGM our revenue will likely be about £30m from next season. While this is above average, living within our means probably means keeping the wage budget at about 60/70% of that max (although someone like Purple may have a better idea of what is sustainable) so around £21/22m.

Unfortunately many Championship clubs run at over 100% wages to turnover due to benefactors sustaining them. For instance Derby will have a lower turnover than us but a higher wage budget once all is said and done.

[......and Smith must score. 1,050]

[quote user="Yorkshire Canary"]Its January and lots of hype about players coming and going. I have supported this club for a long time and sometimes reality hurts a bit. Firstly we have never been an established top flight club and probably never will be. At best we are a yo yo club that may have the odd few seasons in the top flight. We have always been a selling club and right now are about 30th ish in the country in terms of spending power. But that means there are about 60 worse than us so lets just enjoy the journey which is always a roller coaster. We snatch disaster from the jaws of success but prosper when least expected to do so[/quote]Not true.Between 1972/3 and 1994/5 - 23 seasons - we spent just three outside the top flight.

[Hoola Han Solo 448]

It’s a sad state of affairs that a lot of our fans accept mediocrity and have no ambition for us to be anything other than “little Norwich”. Then again, our owners share the same values so we’re kinda screwed.

[PurpleCanary 4,961]

[quote user="king canary"]Looking at the figures at projections from the AGM our revenue will likely be about £30m from next season. While this is above average, living within our means probably means keeping the wage budget at about 60/70% of that max (although someone like Purple may have a better idea of what is sustainable) so around £21/22m.

Unfortunately many Championship clubs run at over 100% wages to turnover due to benefactors sustaining them. For instance Derby will have a lower turnover than us but a higher wage budget once all is said and done.[/quote]I have had a look at the last eight seasons but not sure it tells me much! The trouble is that we have hardly had a normal season in that time. We have (not quite always) either been going up or going down, so the wage bill has often reflected the reality of a different division, and/or with parachute payments to skew the picture. And there are two different figures - for all staff costs (SCs), and for player-wages (PWs).For SCs they range from 48 per cent of income (in the PL for the first time in ages, having jumped two divisions) to 92 per cent (back in the  Championship after three PL seasons, with parachute payments). The PW percentages of income range from  34 per cent to 67 per, for those two same seasons.What one can say is that it has plainly been a policy to keep wages as a reasonable percentage of income, and it would be surprising if that changed, unless we cannot get rid of as many high-earners as we want..The closest approximate season is probably 2010-11, in the Championship, with what was essentially a Championship squad even  though we had just come up from League One, and of course no parachute payments. Then SCs were 80 per cent of turnover and PWs 47 per cent, which - based on income of £30m - would suggest SCs of £24m and PWs of around £14m.

[king canary 6,432]

Cheers Purple.

Bit shocked to see £10m in non-player wages that season- McNally would be a chunk obviously but still.

If we''re operating with a player wage budget of £14m next season though I''d be extremely worried.

[Yorkshire Canary 118]

The period of twenty odd years after 1972 ish was to date our golden era but not an established top flight club with three relegations and a lot of close shaves. An established club for me is Liverpool Everton arsenal spurs Manchester Utd etc that can sustain it for twenty to 30 seasons

[Big Vince 241]

[quote user="Hoola Han Solo"]It’s a sad state of affairs that a lot of our fans accept mediocrity and have no ambition for us to be anything other than “little Norwich”. Then again, our owners share the same values so we’re kinda screwed.[/quote]

Bingo! Was it not Big Vince who invented the term:

"supporters get the owners they deserve?"