What / How many do we actually need?

[gissing canary 2]

Assuming Mourinho''s old rule of 2 for every position. We currently play 4231 (ok the last 2 games have also been 343), but I dont think we are short, as we had a HUGE squad before, with so many players not playing. This is all assuming Naismith goes:

GK: Gunn, Mcgovern - fine.

RB: Pinto + NEED 1.

CB: Hanley, Klose, Raggett, Zimmermann - fine.

LB: Lewis, Husband, Stiepermann - 1 too many.

DM: Reed, Tettey, Vrancic, Trybull & Thompson (may come back from injury towards the end of the season) - fine

AM: Wes, Murphy, Marley, Maddison (for now), Marcus Edwards & Matt Jarvis (may come back from injury towards the end of the season). Stiepermann can also play here. So depending on your views on Stiepermann & Jarvis (as a back up). We need 1 or none.

Attack: Nelson + NEED 1.

Clearly we need a striker (Watkins does not cut it for me so far) and a RB. But otherwise we actually have about the right number of players. Thats AFTER shipping out; Jones, Martin, Franke, Pritchard, Yanic, Naismith and Cameron.

Now I agree that 22 above wont get us promoted, but in terms of numbers, its about right and we just need to increase the quality in the summer now and in the summer.

My point being that its not all that bad. Getting rid of all these players (albeit some only on loan), should balance the books and give us room in the summer to manoeuvre. Also look at the average ages of the departures, especially as I imagine Tettey and Wes go in the summer.

There are some positives. Now we have to trust Webber and Farke to do their work and see if they are as good as Webber says they are.

[DDD In The Fine City 1]

Matt Jarvis coming back from injury haha

[Rogue Baboon 0]

I would say we need 2 strikers, 1 more experienced and maybe 1 young Prem striker. If Oliveira goes then we need 3 in my opinion

[TIL 1010 4,717]

Beat me to it DDD.

[6088m canary 0]

We need a half decent target man. Not necessarily to win all the hoofs (we arent Ipshit after all) but to be able to hold the ball up when required and create space for the three behind him.

Holt mark 2 would be the ideal but any "big man with a good touch" will help us.

A nippy striker that we can throw on alongside if needs be would also be useful.

[Darth Canary1 91]

A miracle would be nice, maybe 3😀🙈 we clearly need right back cover, and our striking options are looking limited so that needs to be sorted.

[gissing canary 2]

[quote user="DDD In The Fine City"]Matt Jarvis coming back from injury haha[/quote]

Fair! I just hope he plays 3 games for us and someone comes in in the summer and takes him.

[mighty yellow 0]

I''m all up for optimism, but there is a 0% chance of anyone signing Jarvis off us.

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

Thinking of next season - and the planning has already started - only Pritchard is a player sold or loaned who I would like to have started the season with.

If any of the others were starting it would look stale and to that end there are more who can be released yet including Wes who deserves an honourable exit after a testimonial game (an Ireland XI would be great).

If I was to be optimistic I would hope the Club is taking a long term view and building a fresh squad.

[Discobolus 11]

I thought Steipermann was an attacking midfielder and only filled in at leftback because there was only Husband.

[king canary 7,562]

This January I think will mainly be loans- the clear out has begun in earnest but I''d imagine Webber and co will want to wait until the summer to start bringing in longer term replacements.

[Woodman 92]

In all honesty the clear out / wage reduction has been ruthless in a very short time:

Pre-season: Bassong, Mulumbu, Lafferty, Ruddy, Bennett.

This window: Jerome, Pritchard

Plus those out on loan (saving some/all of their wages): Franke, Phillips, Godfrey, Matthews, Morris, Wildschut, Efete, Jones, Hallett, Martin. Naismith also likely to join that list.

[Woodman 92]

Sorry, I forgot: Whittaker, Dorrans, Howson, Andreu, Turner and Jacob - not all to save wages, but definitely a consideration.

[Jim Smith 2,314]

Two strikers (one at a push if put Abrahams on the bench) a right back, another winger.

If there is enough in the pot perhaps also a DM as cover for Tettey although in my view we should not have allowed Godfrey out again until the level of activity this month became clearer.

[Hairy Canary 667]

That''s quite a list Woodman but is it enough to allow us to operate with a sustainable structure next season?

Am I in the right ballpark in saying that the Parachute Payments this year are in the region of £20m which we will lose at the end of the season? If so then the numbers we have shipped out so far won''t have covered that much (back of a fag packet I know but unlikely to be more that £15m a year).

[Woodman 92]

All hypothetical, but if you said Bassong, Mulumbu, Lafferty, Ruddy, Bennett, Howson, Dorrans, Jerome, Pritchard and the others were on an average of £25k a week, that''s £13m a year in wages (£15.6m for £30k a week). Only 4/5 of those were regularly in the 18 man playing squad, so that''s a big saving. We have of course replaced some of them, but I suspect not many will be earning anything close to £25k a week.

[king canary 7,562]

This is mainly guess work but...

Our wages for last season stood at £55m.

The AGM confirmed we trimmed £9m p/y off the budget through players leaving and being replaced by those on lower wages.

If we also factor in that Olsson and Brady were probably accounted for in the £55m and not in the £9m summer savings then you can probably take another £2-3m p/y off.

Also then consider that Farke and his coaching staff are probably on much lower wages than Neil and co (lets knock another £2m off).

That puts us at about £40m on the wage front before this January''s sales.

Turnover looks likely to be about £30m once parachute payments stop and to be self funding the wage budget probably needs to sit at about 60-70% of turnover. So probably around £20-24m. So longer term we probably need to take another £15/20m out of the wage budget OR sell players to make up the deficit.

I imagine Pritchard and Jerome were on good money so that is a start. Naismith, Wildschut and Martin will only be temporary savings for now. Shifting those three longer term would be a big saving. Tettey and Wes leaving will take a further chunk out.

[Feedthewolf 4,844]

We''re looking pretty threadbare, I''d say we need at least two more (plus one in for every one out, if anyone else should leave). For the purposes of this exercise I''m assuming that none of Toffolo, Thompson or Jarvis will feature.GK: Gunn, McGovernDF: Pinto, Raggett, Hanley, Zimmermann, Klose, Lewis, Husband, StiepermannMF: Reed, Tettey, Trybull, Vrancic, Murphy, Edwards, Hoolahan, Maddison, CantwellFW: Oliveira, WatkinsOut on loan: Matthews, Jones, Martin, Franke, Godfrey, Phillips, Wildschut, Naismith, Morris.Stiepermann could cover a number of positions, but beyond that there''s not a huge amount of flexibility. A couple of key injuries (worst-case scenarios would be Gunn, Pinto, Maddison and Oliveira) and we''re going to be in real difficulty. Let''s hope for a busy couple of weeks, and no more departures.As stated elsewhere, another RB/RWB and at least one more striker are a priority. Having lost Pritchard and Wildschut and only brought in Edwards, maybe one more pacy winger or versatile attacker?

[Capt. Pants 4,194]

Hmm if DF is committed to 3 CBs then ideally we need more cover, especially with Russ gone. It only takes one injury and all our available CBs will be on the pitch, plus Raggett is untried at this level.Defo need another RB (or ideally a defender who can play CB too) plus at least one striker.But concerned with Tommy''s back as well!

[Essjayess 307]

You also missed out Declan Rudd to Preston Woodman, so many in the summer and this window that possibly left out 1 or 2 more. Anyway, excluding Franke as we have 4 CBs so fine there, 5 main guys were shifted in last week to 10 days, Pritch and Jerome sold and Martin, Naismith and Yanic loaned. Assuming no more go out this window and that its likely those coming in may just be just a smidgeon less than the outs, id guess on Edwards to be joined by possibly McLean for the midfield / wing area, plus 1 RB and 1 striker. See that as the max for this window, although Webber did surprise me with how many came in last summer, so one never knows for sure.

[Bill 1,788]

[quote user="Hairy Canary"]That''s quite a list Woodman but is it enough to allow us to operate with a sustainable structure next season?

Am I in the right ballpark in saying that the Parachute Payments this year are in the region of £20m which we will lose at the end of the season? If so then the numbers we have shipped out so far won''t have covered that much (back of a fag packet I know but unlikely to be more that £15m a year).[/quote]My understanding is that this season''s payments are £31/32mI would think that the club has cut the wage bill down quite a bit - even though those we have loaned out we maybe still paying part of their wages. I would also think that all of this is in hand.One of the problems with being in the PL is it is a case of ''all hands to the pump'' ie players must be ready to go from the start and any money is all too often directed at to that end. Which may well have been one of the problems with the academy. It is also why a number of clubs struggle once they come down. Rather like a ''wild west'' train that has pretty much ripped up every carriage to keep the locomotive going.Last night against Chelsea demonstrated (as did Lambert''s time) that the transfer fee and wages do not have to be as high as they were to have a good team. I have always strongly argued that it is team/player''s spirit that counts for an enormous part of success. How many times have we heard the expression ''they wanted it more than we did".The spirit is certainly there now. We are playing as underdogs and that suits for the moment. Maddison''s reaction to his goal at Bristol was a clear indication of where his head is at. Early in his career a goal celebration was to slide on his knees with a ''look at me'' attitude. Now it is straight over to our fans.Sure players will leave, in both directions but good luck to them and thanks. It''s how we have signed so many from lower league clubs so what goes round etc....A win on Saturday and we''ll be getting that 2009, 2010, and 2015 excitement back again. That feeling that every fan wants. It might just be ''our season''. It just might ...