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Rich T The Biscuit

Renew or not renew, that is the question

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[quote user="lincoln canary"]You know Piggy, you know.[/quote]
Ah, so I didn''t say it. Glad that''s clarified.
If you must know, I think there''s :
1) Those that can''t afford to go. Completely understandable and football is expensive nowadays.
2) Those that can afford but choose not to because ''its not good enough'' or whatever subtle differentiation for the reality which is ''we aren''t winning booo''. Completely fair. But of course you can''t be classed as anything other than a fairweather fan. 

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Most certain I will renew. something to do while my wife is at Bingo losing more money than It costs for my Season ticket but will be annoyed if the arrogance of Balls and Co. increase prices while we watch negative football. Been 7 months now and like Alex Neil Farke has no idea what his best team is or what formation works. Time to get a Manager in who perhaps does not take 12 months to get a settled side who can manage to perform on a weekly basis

Would imagine we are destined for TC for a number of years probably 10 at least unless changes are made at Board level

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No Hog there’s also those like myself who choose not to renew because times too precious to waste every Saturday being bored by the match day experience, namely fans constantly battling with stewards wanting to stand, in arguments between fans and the standard of football served up over the past three seasons was dyer. It’s little wonder the atmosphere at the ground has gone, there’s more fight in the stands than from our leaders in the board room.

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I didn’t renew last season and don’t regret it one bit. The interview that The Smiths have to the guardian was the final straw for me. I won’t set foot inside the stadium until they and their nephew has left the club

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I take it you go then Hog?

And you think it’s value for money and a great experience worth paying for do you?

It’s not actually about the winning for me, it’s about being entertained and what we have to watch most weeks is not entertainment.

Yes we have no divine right to be in the premier league but we as fans do have a divine right to decide whether we want to pay to watch football or not, doesn’t make us plastic, doesn’t make us fairweather fans

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Yeah, season ticket in lower barclay for me.

Each to their own but last season we were very very good at home with a crazy goals for record but the same complaints just put differently were made this time last year.

I dont think its good or bad value for money. For me, I like going to the football so time isnt too precious and the experience varies from game to game. Sometimes its a good game, other times its not.

It all sounds very fairweather to me personally and has only really come to the forefront since our recent premier seasons.

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There are a few on here who''d very much be happier with a 15,000 crowd provided that everyone is the ''right type'' of fan. The type who doesn''t boo, doesn''t ever get angry at what is happening on the pitch, doesn''t question what happens off it. The kind of fan who buys the shirt every year, will pay whatever % increase in season tickets that is issued and thinks nephew Tom is good for the club because ''he seems like he really cares''

I don''t particularly see unquestioning devotion or willingness to be taken for a mug to be positive qualities but each to their own.

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Value for money....🙈

My club runs through my veins. Good, crap, in Europe or League One. Seen it all. I’ve also seen heroes depart and new ones spawned.

Wes became a hero in League One. We had to be well shoite for that to happen but he’s remained one of my favourites of all time irrespective of the division or the results.

I said on another thread last week....

When do we teach the age that the result, division, owner, finances, backroom staff matter more than supporting your heroes in the pitch?

When did we all become managers, CEOs, Scouts and Physios?

When I started going I wanted to be Dixie and then Drinks and then pass like Chippy and finish like Flecky.

I even wanted to defend like Doc and Bassong. Probably. Maybe. At some point.

None of us would try and advise Bill Gates or would have pointed out the error of Steve Jobs’ ways despite supporting their businesses with blind renewal.

Why is our football club (currently cost neutral) so different ??

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He’ll im finding myself agreeing with Duncan! I’m thinking I didn’t really care about off field activities, managers came and went, Bond, Walker etc. But my notions changed in 95/96 when the turmoil got all us fans involved, since then maybe I scrutinise our current owners too much! Maybe I should cut them more slack then I have.

I said earlier on, I’ve been to four home games this season and enjoyed going for the first time in years, just for the event rather than the experience of previous seasons.

Maybe a break isn’t such a bad thing to recalibrate expectations.

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@Duncan

The overwhelming sense I feel from other fans is apathy- and you have to ask the question what caused that apathy? Is it fans changing? Maybe, but it seems a fair few who''ve been watching for years are drifting. Is it lack of success? I don''t think so, I don''t remember this level of fan disenchantment when we got relegated to league 1.

Something has happened to make fans feel less connected, less like they belong with the club.

I can only speak for myself, but it started with the Sunday Times interview for me. It was the first time I really felt like our owners were putting their own interests ahead of the fans and ahead of the club.

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No idea what you''re on about the ''right type of fan'' rubbish King, can only assume you''ve plucked that out of thin air.

In terms of fan apathy you have to remember its as always, an extremely vocal minority. The same 20 or so posters on here so proportionally probably only a couple or few hundred fans at the ground.

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I can only speak for myself, but it started with the Sunday Times interview for me. It was the first time I really felt like our owners were putting their own interests ahead of the fans and ahead of the club.

That’s exactly where it has come from. That interview is the final nail in their coffin as far as I’m concerned. They showed an alarming level of arrogance in that interview

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When I go to see my team play, I want to be excited. I want to see attacking football with the team trying to score more goals than the opposition. I don''t want to see one striker, isolated, standing alone and repeatedly scratching various parts of his anatomy in an effort to stay awake. I don''t want to go to a cup game only to find that we are not playing a striker in an obvious attempt to reinforce our new name of Norwich City Nil. I don''t want to see my team take a free kick twenty yards outside the opposition area and then four passes later find the ball back with our goalkeeper. This type of football may be normal and acceptable in the German 4th division. To me and my 54 years supporting Norwich, it most certainly is not.

I think that is a very good point.

If it was the movies you would tell everyone you knew not to bother.

If it was your favourite band turning out boring music you wouldn''t buy it.

But there is something that makes most go to a home game, pretty much expecting a good performance and a win.

As bad as last season was, the home support was treated to some exciting and entertaining stuff.

This season there has been little of both. And no amount of explanations of transition or lack of finance will make watching it any better.

I must admit that if I still lived in Norwich and came home moaning about the game, I would be asked why I bother then.

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There is of course a difference between supporting a team and whether a fan is going to renew their season ticket. I very much doubt anyone is going to stop caring or supporting their team if they choose not to renew.

I would agree also that enjoyment is not necessarily linked to success. Some of my most enjoyable times have been watching us when we were sh*t. It was all about the day out and expectation s were low so any success was a bit of a bonus. In a funny way if we go back to being also fans I may enjoy it a bit more and there is defiiiteky something rewarding about seeing young players break through and start contributing.

That said it doesn’t mean it’s not frustrating as hell seeing mistakes made, squandering opportunities and seeing your best players plucked away by what are not exactly big teams. Criticising the board or wanting change to hopefully make us more competitive does not mean people won’t support the team in the meantime.

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@king

I think the Times interview was indeed very damaging but theee is probably also an element of having hit our “ceiling” under the current ownership and knowing that even if we do get promoted again the best we could ever hope for us a mid table finish or a relegation battle and the odd half decent result against a big team interspersed with some thrashing’s.

Makes you question the point of it all a bit.

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KC

“I can only speak for myself, but it started with the Sunday Times interview for me. It was the first time I really felt like our owners were putting their own interests ahead of the fans and ahead of the club. “

I think that interview did stick in the craw of some of our more loyal supporters, the sort that would pretty much take the rough with the smooth! Not the cleverest thing she’s ever done.

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Harping back to the good old days and saying people didn’t care about owners or ceo’s Is completely missing the point. Back then there was a far more level playing field, yes you had your big clubs but teams our size could thrive then, as we and many others proved on many occasions. The game has changed now and money is king, like it or not, I hate it and I’m sure most fans do. But this is the reality and we either get on board the money train or we get left behind. Our owners have set their stall out clearly, and they are choosing to have us left behind.

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That interview killed a lot of hope I think for many. What they said was completely the opposite of what many fans were thinking at the tine and created a bit of a “them” and “us” scenario.

It also laid bare that despite all the “custodians for the fans” business the club is theirs to do whatever they like with it and there’s not really anything we can do about it!

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The money train doesn''t seem to want to stop at Norwich though.

Unless their have been one or two porkies, no-one, with the right CV (Carsten Yeung beware), has come along to take over or invest in a club which has so much to offer.

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@hoegsar

That is where I disagree. Previously I''ve felt there has been a vocal minority but my gut feeling is it''s much wider than what you''re saying.

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keelansgrandad wrote the following post at 11/01/2018 7:04 PM:

The money train doesn''t seem to want to stop at Norwich though.

Unless their have been one or two porkies, no-one, with the right CV (Carsten Yeung beware), has come along to take over or invest in a club which has so much to offer.

They have done literally nothing to find it. With their time in their position at the club coming to an end they could have been actively searching for a worthy person capable of taking the club on. Instead they have chosen to keep it in the family

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I think there would have been plenty of interest had it been made known that the club was available to buy, but it’s been the polar opposite indeed I suspect there probably still have been plenty of informal enquiries.

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The club is no longer a very attractive proposition for an investor. We will have crowds about 22000 next season , not much of a team and optimism pretty low. If she had had any sense she would have bailed out in the PL years at this rate she will have little or nothing to sell or pass on

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I can understand people trying to attach particular significance to their decision not to attend/ or not renew as the club has obviously been a significant part of their life. However, it is not something which is new - it is entirely normal that some fans drop out for a variety of reasons - for some it is financial; for others family or work commitments; some stop going when the club becomes less successful etc etc. In the old days of standing on the terraces I was part of a loose-knit group who always met in the pub before hand and if we couldn''t make it went to the place where we always stood. Obviously, over the years I have lost touch with many of those, but even amongst those that I have not, only a couple of us still go - a lot of them dropped out well before Delia came to the club. Their lives changed: they had different priorities; they didn''t enjoy it as much as they used to to etc etcIt has happened in the past and whatever happens, it will happen in the future. It''s not the big deal that some seem to think it is. When the club is successful again, the fans that leave will be replaced and the vast majority of current fans will have remained.

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Yorkshire Canary wrote the following post at 11/01/2018 7:42 PM:

The club is no longer a very attractive proposition for an investor. We will have crowds about 22000 next season , not much of a team and optimism pretty low. If she had had any sense she would have bailed out in the PL years at this rate she will have little or nothing to sell or pass on

exactly that. they should have left after Lamberts first season having delivered PL football. Go out when you are on top

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I said that on a different topic, poor little Tom is going to inherit nothing but a loss making business with little or no valuable assets.

The club will become a bargain for someone but not worth anything like that it was worth when we were in the PL with many waiting for a season ticket.

The multiplier to value the ‘business’ is dropping yearly.

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Our rise from league 1 to PL left players like Korey Smith and Adeyami behind as they were seen to have not being capable of performing at our newly found level. That logic applies throughout the club and the same was the case for our owners. The team had outperformed the owners capabilities and the only way we were staying there was to upgrade on that.

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@king

I can only really go by my seat in the lower barclay. Obviously along with the snakepit the most vocal and likely to identify. When the delia out etc chants started in the lower barclay, there was less than 100 id say joining in, out of a few thousand. Most shook their heads in disappointment.

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[quote user="Jim Smith"]That interview killed a lot of hope I think for many. What they said was completely the opposite of what many fans were thinking at the tine and created a bit of a “them” and “us” scenario.

It also laid bare that despite all the “custodians for the fans” business the club is theirs to do whatever they like with it and there’s not really anything we can do about it![/quote]Not sure about any of that, Jim. Posters here frequently demand statements from the club on its future. They got that pretty comprehensively in that Times interview. And complained about being informed.As to the news being the complete opposite of what many fans (many fans or just some in cyberspace looking like many?) were thinking, really? It was hardly the opposite of what anyone should have been expecting, given the ethos Smith and Jones have kept to in their ownership over 20 years.For them, as custodians of the club, that ethos very definitely includes preserving the heritage and uniqueness of Norwich City, and they think they are going about that the right way. And is it really a revelation that in a capitalist systen the owners of a business get to decide what happens to it?

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hogesar wrote the following post at 11/01/2018 8:01 PM:

@king

I can only really go by my seat in the lower barclay. Obviously along with the snakepit the most vocal and likely to identify. When the delia out etc chants started in the lower barclay, there was less than 100 id say joining in, out of a few thousand. Most shook their heads in disappointment.

Surely a Guiness book of records event by the sounds of it! The most heads shook at one given moment! I’m surprised this mass head shacking event wasn’t caught on camera

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