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Hardhouse44

If you accept it that's what you get

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As foreign investment floods our game from league 1 up we continue to allow the club to be run by people who''s ambitions are to own a football club and nothing more. Life without progression and improvement is dull and unfulfilling. That''s the same with everything else including football. Unknown manager, unknown players, why because they are cheap. We continue to accept it. Give me foreign investment with ambition any day. It''s there but the current owners repel it. So they can continue their ambition-less booze addled reign. Time to make our feeling heard. Huddersfield top of the Premiership and us playing pub football. Rise up and show the owners our disgust or accept and run the risk of falling so far behind the others that we forever watch the shite we are now.

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Successful publisher, multi-million pound book sales, successful caterer, extensive television career, long term majority owner of 2nd tier English football club, etc etc.

As for you Mr Ambition?

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Delia Smith''s media success and all her other achievements are impressive but irrelevant here as we are solely concerned with her running of our football club.

If the season ends at is has started then I for one would want change, but i am prepared to give her/them one more throw at the dice with the new regime even though it now seems that the revolution has been too drastic, very premature and not particularly well thought through.

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Successful publisher, multi-million pound book sales, successful caterer, extensive television career, long term majority owner of 2nd tier English football club, etc etc......

They were successful folk once......sadly, they''re just NCFC majority shareholding football fans now......But hey, future clubsaver entrepreneur extraordinaire NepoTominism is chompin'' at the bit to grab the reins and take us with thrusting gusto onwards and upwards to football Utopia!....HUZZAH!....."FORZA TOMMO!"

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[quote user="corbs"]Successful publisher, multi-million pound book sales, successful caterer, extensive television career, long term majority owner of 2nd tier English football club, etc etc.

As for you Mr Ambition?[/quote]

And there it is everything that is wrong with club summed up in that statement. Give me an anonymous businessman over an aged addled z list celebrity every time. I care not for their personal ambitions only for the ambitions shown towards my club. There are none. We are being held back, business is not actually about on spending what you have it''s about taking opertunities and investing heavily in them when they come along. We should be in the premiership with ease having invested. Not in the Championship with money in the bank.

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You mean the ''Age addled, z-list celebrity'' who has done more for this club than you ever will?The one who has used their own personal wealth to the tune of millions to keep this club going and who has given us Premier League football in 4 out of the past 6 seasons?And what exactly have you contributed during our owners tenure that makes you so much better - f**k all, is the honest answer...

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[quote user="Indy_Bones"]You mean the ''Age addled, z-list celebrity'' who has done more for this club than you ever will?The one who has used their own personal wealth to the tune of millions to keep this club going and who has given us Premier League football in 4 out of the past 6 seasons?And what exactly have you contributed during our owners tenure that makes you so much better - f**k all, is the honest answer...[/quote]

I could understand all this if Mr Qián was waiting with 20 billion and the owners where refusing ...... but they are not.

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[quote user="corbs"]Successful publisher, multi-million pound book sales, successful caterer, extensive television career, long term majority owner of 2nd tier English football club, etc etc.

As for you Mr Ambition?[/quote]

Wrong context, he meant ambitions for the club

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[quote user="Indy_Bones"]You mean the ''Age addled, z-list celebrity'' who has done more for this club than you ever will?The one who has used their own personal wealth to the tune of millions to keep this club going and who has given us Premier League football in 4 out of the past 6 seasons?And what exactly have you contributed during our owners tenure that makes you so much better - f**k all, is the honest answer...[/quote]

She pays herself back though! Hardly saving the club, she''s taking exactly back to where it was before

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We assume that the owners have turned potential investors (who would want a return on their money-but at the same time, there are those who see any sign that DS and MWJ might have done that themselves as another stick to beat them with) and sugar daddies away.

But wouldn''t anyone wanting to put money into this club, for whatever reason and whatever their origins, make damned sure their interest was made public or at least leaked so that the clubs rank and file, that is, all of us, are aware of it and would presumably support them and their bid?

I can''t see someone coming along and not thinking they should make, either directly, or through a well placed source, their interest public. Why would you? No-one has to be secret about making an offer of this nature, there can be no caveats, surely, at NCFC, or anywhere else, that state any and all enquiries of that nature have to be 100% confidential?

Isn''t there a time when such an interest, even if it is just that, still has to be flagged up for shareholders, even if it only making them aware of the possibility.

Peter Cullum made his interest very evident in 2008-he was rebuffed but it had the fans talking which is exactly what he would have wanted-and you couldn''t miss it, given it was all over the front page of the EDP that morning.

Have we genuinely had zero interest or enquiries since then, have any interested parties really made themselves known but kept that interest in the private domain?

Or do any and all that might, just might, have an interest know an approach is totally fruitless and a waste of their time, resources and money-and none, genuinely, have been put out there since Cullum?

Or are we such a bad option that no-one is or has been interested since him anyway?

I can''t for a moment think that last one would be the case-so where are they and why, if they are out there, do we hear absolutely nothing when, surely, if a takeover was your plan, you''d want to make the fans aware of your interest and see if you can get their support-something which would make life a bit difficult for any current owner of any club.

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[quote user="Indy_Bones"]You mean the ''Age addled, z-list celebrity'' who has done more for this club than you ever will?The one who has used their own personal wealth to the tune of millions to keep this club going and who has given us Premier League football in 4 out of the past 6 seasons?And what exactly have you contributed during our owners tenure that makes you so much better - f**k all, is the honest answer...[/quote]May be the case but it still doesn''t seem right that she can take the club down the toilet when she clearly doesn''t have the wealth to own a club capable of competing even in the top half of the Championship. This self financing idea is all well and good but simply won''t work when the majority of other clubs are throwing more money at it. Pay peanuts and get a load of dross as looks to be the case with our new signings.

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[quote user="kdncfc"]This self financing idea is all well and good but simply won''t work when the majority of other clubs are throwing more money at it. Pay peanuts and get a load of dross as looks to be the case with our new signings.[/quote]Yet that''s exactly what Huddersfield haven''t done, and the same person who arranged that for them is now looking to do it again with us!In 15/16 they spent 450k on transfer fees, 16/17 it was a mere 2.5 mil, so approx 3 mil on transfer fees since Wagner joined them, then look at sides like Villa, who''ve spent nearly 130 mil over the same period, and it''s perfectly clear that simply throwing money at it and hoping it sticks is not some panacea for promotion and guaranteed PL football.Having a Chinese Billionaire owner hasn''t given them any more success than we''ve had, yet as per usual, our owners are unfairly branded for not being wealthier than they are, as if it''s the only yardstick that matters despite evidence clearly showing otherwise.Do we want to be another Hull, re-branded from the Canaries to the ''Yellow Dragons'', I mean, at least we wouldn''t have to change kit colour as we already have 2 out of the 3 ''luckiest'' colours in China, but still...

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[quote user="Old Shuck"]We assume that the owners have turned potential investors (who would want a return on their money-but at the same time, there are those who see any sign that DS and MWJ might have done that themselves as another stick to beat them with) and sugar daddies away.

But wouldn''t anyone wanting to put money into this club, for whatever reason and whatever their origins, make damned sure their interest was made public or at least leaked so that the clubs rank and file, that is, all of us, are aware of it and would presumably support them and their bid?

I can''t see someone coming along and not thinking they should make, either directly, or through a well placed source, their interest public
. Why would you? No-one has to be secret about making an offer of this nature, there can be no caveats, surely, at NCFC, or anywhere else, that state any and all enquiries of that nature have to be 100% confidential?

Isn''t there a time when such an interest, even if it is just that, still has to be flagged up for shareholders, even if it only making them aware of the possibility.

Peter Cullum made his interest very evident in 2008-he was rebuffed but it had the fans talking which is exactly what he would have wanted-and you couldn''t miss it, given it was all over the front page of the EDP that morning.

Have we genuinely had zero interest or enquiries since then, have any interested parties really made themselves known but kept that interest in the private domain?

Or do any and all that might, just might, have an interest know an approach is totally fruitless and a waste of their time, resources and money-and none, genuinely, have been put out there since Cullum?

Or are we such a bad option that no-one is or has been interested since him anyway?

I can''t for a moment think that last one would be the case-so where are they and why, if they are out there, do we hear absolutely nothing when, surely, if a takeover was your plan, you''d want to make the fans aware of your interest and see if you can get their support-something which would make life a bit difficult for any current owner of any club.[/quote]Yes and no! The sensible way for any would-be buyer to proceed would be to have private and secret takeover talks with the directors. If the potential buyer thought they were being fobbed off or unreasonably rejected then they could go public, either by just taking about their plan, or by making a formal offer, which by law would have to be passed on to shareholders.The former is in effect what Cullum did. After  secret talks in the winter, in which his proposal was which not well received, he went public via the EDP (without ever making a formal offer) the next summer.What was odd about that was that the directors had been right to give his proposal pretty short shrift and that he simply repeated it, unimproved. And then made no effort to sell it to fans.You are right about the power of the support from fans. It is often said that Smith and Jones can reject any takeover offer, because they having a controlling majority. Theoretically true, but in the real modern world of cyberspace and social media they would find it very hard to vote down an offer that had been publicly roadtested to the enth degree in terms of financial viability and which gave cast-iron guarantees on the club''s future.

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[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="kdncfc"]This self financing idea is all well and good but simply won''t work when the majority of other clubs are throwing more money at it. Pay peanuts and get a load of dross as looks to be the case with our new signings.[/quote]Yet that''s exactly what Huddersfield haven''t done, and the same person who arranged that for them is now looking to do it again with us!In 15/16 they spent 450k on transfer fees, 16/17 it was a mere 2.5 mil, so approx 3 mil on transfer fees since Wagner joined them, then look at sides like Villa, who''ve spent nearly 130 mil over the same period, and it''s perfectly clear that simply throwing money at it and hoping it sticks is not some panacea for promotion and guaranteed PL football.Having a Chinese Billionaire owner hasn''t given them any more success than we''ve had, yet as per usual, our owners are unfairly branded for not being wealthier than they are, as if it''s the only yardstick that matters despite evidence clearly showing otherwise.Do we want to be another Hull, re-branded from the Canaries to the ''Yellow Dragons'', I mean, at least we wouldn''t have to change kit colour as we already have 2 out of the 3 ''luckiest'' colours in China, but still...[/quote]The Huddersfield scenario doesn''t happen very often though and there are other clubs who as a direct result of having wealthy owners have done ok. Southampton, Leicester, Stoke, Bournemouth to name a few - some of whom have foreign owners and others like Stoke who were lucky enough to have a fan wealthy enough to bankroll them.One thing I am certain of is that Smith and Jones have done all they can and for the good of the club need to find someone suitable with wealth to take over - which is their responsibility not ours.I don''t necessarily think foreign ownership is ideal but would certainly be worthy of consideration if the right person came along

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Some talk as if Delia and MWJ were forced at gun point to put their money in to the club. They wanted/ want to or they wouldn''t.

They run in it such away that they maintain maximum control with minimum risk. If and when they do relinquish their grip they will take their investment back with them I''m sure.

In fact thats why investment from others doesn''t come readily because unlike others who have sold their interest in their clubs for a pound they would want it all back and more.

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[quote user="Hardhouse44"]They run in it such away that they maintain maximum control with minimum risk.[/quote]That''s called sensible business management.[quote]If and when they do relinquish their grip they will take their investment back with them I''m sure.[/quote]Again, this isn''t a crime or unexpected, if this were any other business rather than football, that would be the very least most owners would expect to get, and far more would be expecting a big dividend over their initial investment.[quote]In fact thats why investment from others doesn''t come readily because unlike others who have sold their interest in their clubs for a pound they would want it all back and more.[/quote]See above.On a side note, can anyone who wants to take potshots at our owners over their investment levels, please come forward with your own sizeable fortune, make a fair and sensible offer for the club, and show us how it''s supposed to be done, because frankly I''m tired of hearing this from fans who probably put less into the club over a 50 year period, than our current owners have spent in a single week at the club...

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Old Shuck"]We assume that the owners have turned potential investors (who would want a return on their money-but at the same time, there are those who see any sign that DS and MWJ might have done that themselves as another stick to beat them with) and sugar daddies away.

But wouldn''t anyone wanting to put money into this club, for whatever reason and whatever their origins, make damned sure their interest was made public or at least leaked so that the clubs rank and file, that is, all of us, are aware of it and would presumably support them and their bid?

I can''t see someone coming along and not thinking they should make, either directly, or through a well placed source, their interest public
. Why would you? No-one has to be secret about making an offer of this nature, there can be no caveats, surely, at NCFC, or anywhere else, that state any and all enquiries of that nature have to be 100% confidential?

Isn''t there a time when such an interest, even if it is just that, still has to be flagged up for shareholders, even if it only making them aware of the possibility.

Peter Cullum made his interest very evident in 2008-he was rebuffed but it had the fans talking which is exactly what he would have wanted-and you couldn''t miss it, given it was all over the front page of the EDP that morning.

Have we genuinely had zero interest or enquiries since then, have any interested parties really made themselves known but kept that interest in the private domain?

Or do any and all that might, just might, have an interest know an approach is totally fruitless and a waste of their time, resources and money-and none, genuinely, have been put out there since Cullum?

Or are we such a bad option that no-one is or has been interested since him anyway?

I can''t for a moment think that last one would be the case-so where are they and why, if they are out there, do we hear absolutely nothing when, surely, if a takeover was your plan, you''d want to make the fans aware of your interest and see if you can get their support-something which would make life a bit difficult for any current owner of any club.[/quote]Yes and no! The sensible way for any would-be buyer to proceed would be to have private and secret takeover talks with the directors. If the potential buyer thought they were being fobbed off or unreasonably rejected then they could go public, either by just taking about their plan, or by making a formal offer, which by law would have to be passed on to shareholders.The former is in effect what Cullum did. After  secret talks in the winter, in which his proposal was which not well received, he went public via the EDP (without ever making a formal offer) the next summer.What was odd about that was that the directors had been right to give his proposal pretty short shrift and that he simply repeated it, unimproved. And then made no effort to sell it to fans.You are right about the power of the support from fans. It is often said that Smith and Jones can reject any takeover offer, because they having a controlling majority. Theoretically true, but in the real modern world of cyberspace and social media they would find it very hard to vote down an offer that had been publicly roadtested to the enth degree in terms of financial viability and which gave cast-iron guarantees on the club''s future.[/quote]I should have added that by definition no-one has ever made a formal offer for the club (at least not since we became a plc back, I think, in the early 2000s) since such would have had to have been passed on to shareholders.

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But would that hide somebody who has reached out with the early steps to offer to buy the club but immediately get refused?

For example, if a businessman offers to buy the club but is immediately told no by the owners then no formal offer would have been made?

Or would that have to still be passed on to shareholders?

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[quote user="Hardhouse44"]Some talk as if Delia and MWJ were forced at gun point to put their money in to the club. They wanted/ want to or they wouldn''t.

They run in it such away that they maintain maximum control with minimum risk. If and when they do relinquish their grip they will take their investment back with them I''m sure.

In fact thats why investment from others doesn''t come readily because unlike others who have sold their interest in their clubs for a pound they would want it all back and more.[/quote]Not if, as planned, they in effect gift the shares to Tom Smith. I doubt he has any money lying around to pay for them, let alone several million. They would only get their money back if they did sell to an outside buyer. And as a matter of interest, how many clubs have been sold for a pound? Wolves were, but the new owner had to take on many millions in debt.

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[quote user="kdncfc"][quote user="Indy_Bones"]You mean the ''Age addled, z-list celebrity'' who has done more for this club than you ever will?The one who has used their own personal wealth to the tune of millions to keep this club going and who has given us Premier League football in 4 out of the past 6 seasons?And what exactly have you contributed during our owners tenure that makes you so much better - f**k all, is the honest answer...[/quote]May be the case but it still doesn''t seem right that she can take the club down the toilet when she clearly doesn''t have the wealth to own a club capable of competing even in the top half of the Championship. This self financing idea is all well and good but simply won''t work when the majority of other clubs are throwing more money at it. Pay peanuts and get a load of dross as looks to be the case with our new signings.[/quote]
kd, I remember when we were in League One you told me that if we managed to reach the Championship we would get no further unless we replaced "her". Why should I believe you this time buddy?

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[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="kdncfc"][quote user="Indy_Bones"]You mean the ''Age addled, z-list celebrity'' who has done more for this club than you ever will?The one who has used their own personal wealth to the tune of millions to keep this club going and who has given us Premier League football in 4 out of the past 6 seasons?And what exactly have you contributed during our owners tenure that makes you so much better - f**k all, is the honest answer...[/quote]May be the case but it still doesn''t seem right that she can take the club down the toilet when she clearly doesn''t have the wealth to own a club capable of competing even in the top half of the Championship. This self financing idea is all well and good but simply won''t work when the majority of other clubs are throwing more money at it. Pay peanuts and get a load of dross as looks to be the case with our new signings.[/quote]
kd, I remember when we were in League One you told me that if we managed to reach the Championship we would get no further unless we replaced "her". Why should I believe you this time buddy?
[/quote]You''ve got a better memory than me nutty but it was my opinion at the time and I got it wrong - football has become even more money orientated since then so there''s more of a chance I''m right this time.Serious question for you nutty - if we could find what could be considered suitable ownership as an alterative to the current regime would you be in favour?

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[quote user="kdncfc"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="kdncfc"][quote user="Indy_Bones"]You mean the ''Age addled, z-list celebrity'' who has done more for this club than you ever will?The one who has used their own personal wealth to the tune of millions to keep this club going and who has given us Premier League football in 4 out of the past 6 seasons?And what exactly have you contributed during our owners tenure that makes you so much better - f**k all, is the honest answer...[/quote]May be the case but it still doesn''t seem right that she can take the club down the toilet when she clearly doesn''t have the wealth to own a club capable of competing even in the top half of the Championship. This self financing idea is all well and good but simply won''t work when the majority of other clubs are throwing more money at it. Pay peanuts and get a load of dross as looks to be the case with our new signings.[/quote]
kd, I remember when we were in League One you told me that if we managed to reach the Championship we would get no further unless we replaced "her". Why should I believe you this time buddy?
[/quote]You''ve got a better memory than me nutty but it was my opinion at the time and I got it wrong - football has become even more money orientated since then so there''s more of a chance I''m right this time.Serious question for you nutty - if we could find what could be considered suitable ownership as an alterative to the current regime would you be in favour?

[/quote]
If Delia and MWJ or the trustees thought it right I can''t imagine anyone wouldn''t be in favour. I trust them as they have been top class custodians of our club throughout a really unpredictable and difficult period for football clubs. Would you trust them to know what was best and if not why not buddy?

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Thanks Purple.

There''s the rub I guess. No formal offer since then.

Either no one has ever been interested or they haven''t made that formal offer because they know (or will have been pre-advised) that it will end with a negative response.

Now whether that has been simply because one that would be considered good enough has never been made to even warrant further discussions is another question.

At the end of the day, are we an attractive business model with a potential rich return or not? It would appear that is not the case.

Which, and admittedly, I am biased and seeing it through yellow and green tinted glasses, I find surprising.

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[quote user="Fromage Frais"][quote user="Indy_Bones"]You mean the ''Age addled, z-list celebrity'' who has done more for this club than you ever will?The one who has used their own personal wealth to the tune of millions to keep this club going and who has given us Premier League football in 4 out of the past 6 seasons?And what exactly have you contributed during our owners tenure that makes you so much better - f**k all, is the honest answer...[/quote]

I could understand all this if Mr Qián was waiting with 20 billion and the owners where refusing ...... but they are not.[/quote]

Course they are. I am sure there have been many expressions of interest but they get stonewalled.

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[quote user="Jim Smith"][quote user="Fromage Frais"][quote user="Indy_Bones"]You mean the ''Age addled, z-list celebrity'' who has done more for this club than you ever will?The one who has used their own personal wealth to the tune of millions to keep this club going and who has given us Premier League football in 4 out of the past 6 seasons?And what exactly have you contributed during our owners tenure that makes you so much better - f**k all, is the honest answer...[/quote]

I could understand all this if Mr Qián was waiting with 20 billion and the owners where refusing ...... but they are not.[/quote]

Course they are. I am sure there have been many expressions of interest but they get stonewalled.[/quote]Really, Jim? How many? Cullum, to use your word (which I don''t accept but...) was stonewalled in private. Because it was a lousy proposal. That didn''t stop him going public.And if there have been serious people out there with seriously good proposals that Smith and Jones had stonewalled they too could have gone public. More than that, they could have made a formal offer, got the fans and public opinion generally on their side, and dared Smith and Jones to reject it. And the same is true now with any proposals that might be made.

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Well our majority shareholding duo have made us all aware of their intentions for the future of the club......So, why go over old ground concerning Cullum etc.......Let''s hope their nephew is the person to take the club forward......

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[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="kdncfc"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="kdncfc"][quote user="Indy_Bones"]You mean the ''Age addled, z-list celebrity'' who has done more for this club than you ever will?The one who has used their own personal wealth to the tune of millions to keep this club going and who has given us Premier League football in 4 out of the past 6 seasons?And what exactly have you contributed during our owners tenure that makes you so much better - f**k all, is the honest answer...[/quote]May be the case but it still doesn''t seem right that she can take the club down the toilet when she clearly doesn''t have the wealth to own a club capable of competing even in the top half of the Championship. This self financing idea is all well and good but simply won''t work when the majority of other clubs are throwing more money at it. Pay peanuts and get a load of dross as looks to be the case with our new signings.[/quote]
kd, I remember when we were in League One you told me that if we managed to reach the Championship we would get no further unless we replaced "her". Why should I believe you this time buddy?
[/quote]

You''ve got a better memory than me nutty but it was my opinion at the time and I got it wrong - football has become even more money orientated since then so there''s more of a chance I''m right this time.Serious question for you nutty - if we could find what could be considered suitable ownership as an alterative to the current regime would you be in favour?

[/quote]
If Delia and MWJ or the trustees thought it right I can''t imagine anyone wouldn''t be in favour. I trust them as they have been top class custodians of our club throughout a really unpredictable and difficult period for football clubs. Would you trust them to know what was best and if not why not buddy?
[/quote]They seem to be blind to the fact that serious money is needed to run a football club nowadays and are preparing to hand over the reins to their nephew who has even less money than them, because of that I''m not sure that I do trust them to know what is best.

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