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lake district canary

Change and belief

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Dont get me wrong, the op has a valid point. But in two or three seasons with no promotion or outside investment, our team will be a shadow of the team that it is even now. A big money signing then will be a couple of hundred grand and the club will be millions in debt. This season was, and is our real last chance, barring an absolute miracle. This experiment is probably what should have happened had we not gone up this season

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I think the point is that the plan could take two or three seasons to see the best of things.  Obviously if it goes t!ts up in the first season, he won''t last - but as long as there is improvement overall this season, he has to be given the time to develop further, otherwise there is no point. It''s not been good for the last two league games in terms of results, but as pepople keep saying - he needs time!  And pre-season was just that - pre-season, so he has only had seven truly competitive games - 3 wins, 1 draw and 3 losses. A mixed bag, yes, but far far to early to write anything off.

 

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so many clubs are going to have rich owners that the value of that money in time will become pointless, after all, what''s the point of investing millions upon millions of pounds if you are still languishing in the championship or lower? Villa, Hull, Wolves, QPR, Fulham, Birmingham......the list goes on.

Surely at that point if we''re not on board with the money train then our time as a championship club becomes unattainable?

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It''s simple we either find the funding to be a championship force or else we slide to league one.

People are debating franke but for me it is about the players. Put bluntly I don''t think they are good enough (defence) to do what is being asked of them.

So we need to hoof or buy better

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The thing is though our defensive issues are (in the main) nothing at all to do with how we are trying to play (a couple of the Villa goals aside) but more to do with a basic inability to mark properly and win headers. No kore zonal marking and better defenders is what we need. I really don''t think this is a result of the "philosophy."

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[quote user="JF"]so many clubs are going to have rich owners that the value of that money in time will become pointless, after all, what''s the point of investing millions upon millions of pounds if you are still languishing in the championship or lower? Villa, Hull, Wolves, QPR, Fulham, Birmingham......the list goes on.

Surely at that point if we''re not on board with the money train then our time as a championship club becomes unattainable?[/quote]

I don''t think so. The more clubs that have money, the less they will be able to buy players at good enough quality to make such a big difference and the more they start scrabbling around to find players - and end up paying stupid money for players that aren''t worth it and it''s happening now with Villa and Middsbro. So having so much extra money won''t mean as much and clubs like ours can box clever with youth and a club ethic that stays constant - as we did in the 80s and as Swansea achieved more recently.  It can be done and it really is true - the more clubs that get money, the less they will be able to buy that money - there is a limit to the amount of quality players available. As for our own well being as a club, the rest having money works in our favour as it always has done, we get a young player and eventually sell them on, using the money to carry on building and improving what we do and the way we play.  It''s very hard at the moment with the last two league results and continuing concerns about defence, but for me, what the club is doing is the right thing.  People want an identifiable way of playing - to see the team each week  and know we are going to get a performance out of them - and that will take time. 

  

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That''s an ideal vision that has no place in the real world of modern football I''m afraid. That''s basically the same vision our owners appear to have, yearning for a return to how football was in the 80s. It won''t work when we would be the only team playing by those rules. As for there being a limit to the amount of quality players available, then the teams with the money will buy them and the teams without will sell off their best players to keep the club afloat and inevitably fall down the ladder

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[quote user="JF"]That''s an ideal vision that has no place in the real world of modern football I''m afraid. That''s basically the same vision our owners appear to have, yearning for a return to how football was in the 80s. It won''t work when we would be the only team playing by those rules. As for there being a limit to the amount of quality players available, then the teams with the money will buy them and the teams without will sell off their best players to keep the club afloat and inevitably fall down the ladder[/quote]But that didn''t happen in the 80''s.  We developed a defined way of playing that worked really well against the big clubs and led us on to real success. I would agree that we reached a level we couldn''t sustain in the 90''s due to lack of resources - but if TV money keeps on growing and if we find a way to be successful with our own style and ethos as we did in the 80''s, we will be able to tap into that money.  The hard thing at the moment is to get ourselves into a way of playing that will work for us, but as I said in the op, it is about accepting the change and believing in what we are trying to achieve.  The instinctive style of the 80''s took a while to develop and fans were asked for patience - and it led us to our best years - and on a low budget compared to the rest. Money isn''t always the answer.

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[quote user="JF"]That''s an ideal vision that has no place in the real world of modern football I''m afraid. That''s basically the same vision our owners appear to have, yearning for a return to how football was in the 80s. It won''t work when we would be the only team playing by those rules. As for there being a limit to the amount of quality players available, then the teams with the money will buy them and the teams without will sell off their best players to keep the club afloat and inevitably fall down the ladder[/quote]

Exactly this, there may be the odd exception that proves the rule, but, they will be exactly that an exception. Clubs that won''t accept this will inevitably fall down the ladder.

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[quote user="Mickdundee"][quote user="JF"]That''s an ideal vision that has no place in the real world of modern football I''m afraid. That''s basically the same vision our owners appear to have, yearning for a return to how football was in the 80s. It won''t work when we would be the only team playing by those rules. As for there being a limit to the amount of quality players available, then the teams with the money will buy them and the teams without will sell off their best players to keep the club afloat and inevitably fall down the ladder[/quote]

Exactly this, there may be the odd exception that proves the rule, but, they will be exactly that an exception. Clubs that won''t accept this will inevitably fall down the ladder.[/quote]Clubs that dont go the whole hog and adopt a specific way of playing will fall down the ladder, but clubs that try to evolve - as we are doing - stand an even chance if they can get the ethos and style of football right.  We''ve tried to have the "Norwich way" thing three times to my knowledge - Gunn, Adams and now Farke.   In between we have had straight forward managers and that has been a mixed blessing, with no real long term progression.  The latest evolution has been so widespread that it really is a new ball game this season which is again why it needs time. No gain without pain!  

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I think your vision is the miracle that I referred to in my first response to your post LDC. It could happen but I wouldn''t part with any money on its chances

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We''ve tried to have the "Norwich way" thing three times to my knowledge - Gunn, Adams and now Farke.

My God if this is you trying to sell it then I''m not buying!!!

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nutty nigel wrote the following post at 28/08/2017 9:48 PM:

But you will part with money betting on Norwich to be relegated JFSmile [:)]

A free bet NN. It Isn''t actually my own money.

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[quote user="JF"]Not a lot the way my luck has been this weekend![/quote]
PUPs had a rubbish weekend too. 23/45 (51%)correct picks. And then the Norwich game....

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[quote user="JF"]I think your vision is the miracle that I referred to in my first response to your post LDC. It could happen but I wouldn''t part with any money on its chances[/quote]The late 80''s wasn''t a miracle, it was a sound and good club finding a way to suceed against the odds through a defined way of playing which was often too good for more conventional teams and with much more money than us, to match. It can happen. I''m not saying it will happen, but that is the plan.  And we do it from a standpoint of financial stability and a strong youth set up.  There is a lot still in our favour.   

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Let''s just say I put a bit too much faith in our team! Annoying as I rarely bet on Norwich as I don''t like to let heart rule head! Lesson learnt! And as for Spurs....😡😡

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[quote user="Inch High aka Inchy.."]Before we''d even kicked a ball under Farke. He is not of the standard needed. For your interest this is the league we signed him from. Don''t be taken in by the Dortmund link.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regionalliga_West

It''s akin to signing Ian Culverhouse from the Linnets.[/quote]It is a valid point. While footballl is a result-driven business, for Dortmund II there''s not much pressure for results, it''s just a playing outlet for their reserves. Lambert and Alex Neil may have been unknown before their arrival, but they both had proven their capabilities by punching above their weight with their  former clubs. Farke''s credentials are weak even compared to theirs.

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