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Fat Barman

Talking sense - let's all try it

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http://www.citizens2canaries.com/columns/leftoffield/160905.htm

Perhaps some of the more rabid anti-Fleming posters could take the time to read the article linked above. I''m not denying you''re allowed to criticise players, just suggesting that there''s been a loss of proportion. Is Fleming REALLY as bad as he''s been painted? Are NO others worth being singled out for such vitriolic attacks?

Whilst we can all benefit, at times, from venting our spleens, it isn''t helping ourselves - or the team - to continually pick on the same player. No one person could possibly be held responsible for our dire performances. I don''t think anybody can claim to have performed well in every game and yet I see vitually no criticism of any other player on this board. Our dear captain has at least a couple of page-fulls of threads calling for his head!

As I said earlier, Fleming is as deserving of criticism as ANY of the players - but does he deserve so much extra on top of his fair share, I think not. If you look for a player''s mistakes then you will spot them - try looking at a few others next game, you never know, it might give you a better sense of perspective.

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Unfortunately primitive peoples have always felt the need to single out one ''culprit''.

It''s the old mob mentality of ''burn the witch''.

Much easier on the mind for those with limited brainpower to have an easy target as opposed to having to think things out. Expect a few posters on here to start burning James Bond books.

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[quote]http://www.citizens2canaries.com/columns/leftoffield/160905.htm Perhaps some of the more rabid anti-Fleming posters could take the time to read the article linked above. I''m not denying you''re allowe...[/quote]

A very well balanced article.

My problem with Flem is not really with Flem, it''s with Worthy''s attitude towards him, he drops everyone but Fleming.  I think this part of your post could easily be applied to Worthy, "If you look for a player''s mistakes then you will spot them - try looking at a few others next game, you never know, it might give you a better sense of perspective."

At the end of the day when Worthy picks his centre backs he has to get past the "Who shall I play with Flem" mentality and think about which two players in our squad will make the best partnership.  So far no partnership with Fleming involved has blossomed and it''s not all Flemings fault but I think we should try something other than just looking for Flem''s new partner.

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Totally, completely and utterly agree.

Holt got the brunt of it last season, whilst Francis was swanning around with a cup of tea in his hand for 70 mins every game.

Fleming IS not playing well, and SHOULD be rested/replaced BUT that doesn''t mean it''s all his fault. Defence is all about organisation, and that starts with the manager and his staff.

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It seems to be about subtext.  I remember that it became politically impossible to criticise Mrs Thatcher so party members would criticise and try to remove ministers in veiled attacks on the leader herself.

It seems that the two main concerns that recurr namely, disappointment over the last two seasons with the failure of the team to reach anything like its paper potential and the capricious unfathomable selection of certain favourites irrespective of form or alterative have become fused.

The result is almost a repeat of the class room ploy of picking on teacher''s pet.  All the frustration, bewilderment and disapointment focuses on the player who is performing below par but can''t help being picked.  Poor Gary Holt was an embarrassment lat times last season but there were good reasons and he didn''t select the team.  Fleming does still do a job though he generally goes missing in action at the crucial moment.  Again, he doesn''t pick the team.

He is Worthy''s surrogate or whipping boy and as the fan''s feelings rise so does the venom for Craig.  It is unfair in its ferocity and is largely undeserved but Worthy brings it on them both by his selections and by not sorting out the dangerous and damaging frailties in the defence in general and Fleming in particular.

I doubt if replacing Fleming would change things overnight but as with Mrs Thatcher, it would have huge significance if a close favourite were to be unseated.

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Completely agree with this article.  Can''t be bothered with a long post regarding the whys and wherefores of the defence.  Yes Flem was at fault for the first goal at watford but played well in the second half.  Of one thing I am certain though, the amount of stick that Flem has had is ridiculous.  We are talking about a player who cares, who hurts when we lose, who genuinely has a heart for NCFC and I for one have  a slightly bitter taste in my mouth when I read some of the comments made. One imbecile actually said he hoped Malky breaks his legs so he can''t play for us anymore.  Is this the respect we should show to a player who has been a loyal servant and part of one of the most successful era''s this club has seen??

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[quote]It seems to be about subtext. I remember that it became politically impossible to criticise Mrs Thatcher so party members would criticise and try to remove ministers in veiled attacks on the leader h...[/quote]

Brilliant CambridgeCanary!

It''s been so bloody obvious I completely missed it. You are, of course, spot on with this. I feel a bit of a fool to have forgotten that people ''displace'' their anger in this way and it was a timely reminder.

Not that this excuses the behaviour, but at least I understand better why Fleming has been hunted so viciously on these and other boards. Now I just need to work out whether the Worthy bashers are displacing their anger at the team onto the manager?! :p

It makes it all worthwhile when someone helps you to open your eyes, thanks again CC.

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Great post i too am sick to the teeth of fans blaming flem for every defeat we suffer i suggest thay open there eyes a little and they will soon see that there are plenty more players out there who are not playing very well .

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[quote]A very well balanced article. My problem with Flem is not really with Flem, it''s with Worthy''s attitude towards him, he drops everyone but Fleming. I think this part of your post could easily be app...[/quote]

I agree with your comments Saint.

It is fair to say that on the whole Fleming has been poor for last season and this one so far. I''m sure there are exceptions and you could argue that the step up in quality last season highlighted some deficiences that were not so visible in the Championsip.

It is also fair to say that it is not his fault that Worthington keeps picking him or that he has been made captain. It is certainly not his fault that Worthington fails to drop him when he should. If the manager picks him, he will want to play - thats only natural.

Given how brassed off we all are, its only natural that we will have a go at the poor performers. Ultimately, some of us have failed to direct this anger at the man who picks the team.

Although it is not his fault that Fleming is in a slump, Worthington should realise now that there is a constant in our poor defence this season so far and drop Fleming in favour of a different option. He did it with Drury but won''t with Fleming for some reason. Its taking loyalty a bit far imo.

Again....this is not Flemings fault - its Worthingtons

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I agree with your points about Fleming as an individual player, but I do feel he should be taking some responsibility for the disorganisation at the back.

I totally agree with what the article says about message board culture, and we see it lots on here. Its not just about making a scape goat of a player, its also other absurdities that quickly become accepted as ''facts''. A few other examples would be;

- Worthy has lost the dressing room. People believe this despite a long list of players speaking out in support of the manager.

- Worthy plays his favourites. This ignores the fact that he dropped both Drury and Holt last season. The whole idea that a professional football manager would base team selection on his friendship regardless of footballing talent is ridiculous.

- We were lucky to get promoted as champions. Utter rubbish. We had the best defense, scored loads, played some excellent football and we deserved to be Champions.

- The reason the squad is too small is because Worthy didn''t bother making calls over the summer, he just sat on a beach doing nothing. Worthy might have his faults but he is NOT work shy, and Munby would very quickly spot if this was the case.

- The board and Worthy didn''t bother to attempt to stay in the Premiership as they had given it up as a lost cause before the season even started. Good grief.

We have had bad injury problems which disrupted our preseason, and had our coach Steve Foley out of action all through the summer. We have a good squad (but too small) and things should improve.

I''m not saying things are perfect, far from it, but if people want to criticise (and thats partly what these boards are for) then please focus constructively on the actual issues and don''t make new ones up! I''m personally concerned about the squad size, especially midfield (Worthy has not done a good job over the summer), I''m concerned about some of the tactics we deploy (we haven''t used Hucks effectively since we were promoted for example), I don''t like some of his squad selections (he should have played McVeigh on Tuesday IMO) and I especially don''t like the recent results (who does). But I would back him to turn our season around.

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my only complaint with Flem is that ,as captain he just isnt loud enough on the pitch.

Yes he has bad games as do others. This time last year Holt got all the stick and was ''sleeping'' with the manager and he isnt even with us anymore. I would like to see someone else given a run with Davenport, possibly Doherty would be a better foil than Shackell, but you should never doubt Fleming''s commitment to the cause.

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[quote]my only complaint with Flem is that ,as captain he just isnt loud enough on the pitch. Yes he has bad games as do others. This time last year Holt got all the stick and was ''sleeping'' with the manag...[/quote]

I have never criticised Flem honesty, endeavour or loyalty; he gives 100% week in week out without question. 

I have criticised his performances over a long period of time but have also highlighted shacks errors too.   Its just shacks are not as frequent - as the article pointed out shacks has consistently outperformed Flem, as have charlie and even the ultimate scapegoat Doc.      

The problems in defence are just that  - a defencive unit problem.   The roots of the problem go back well before we were promoted and have been left unchecked by the management team.   

The biggest problem are in the central part of the pitch and leadership and organisation on the pitch are a problem - but are ones that can be solved off it.  Is it a coincindence that the goals started tio fly in when Drury was releived of the captaincy?   Was that more to do with the power struggle visible on the pitch as the weekly public arguments between flem and charlie were seen as charlie tried to pull flem back into shape; to experienced top dogs fighting for supremacy and worthy backed his old general?  With charlie put in his place the arguing slowed down in inverse proportion to the influence of flem leadership. The leaddership was not existant and has lead to the situation we find ourselves in now.

As someone pointed out the real culprit for the defensive problems is the manager for continuing to pick flem come what may (as the superb citizens article points out shacks has consistently out performed flem but was subbed after a half - there have been many from flem not similarly ''punished'' - but the doc and charlie also consistently outplayed him game in game out) but also failing to address the issue of defending as a unit. 

The comments are on flems performance but are aimed at worthy.  If Flem makes the same errors why shouldnt they be pointed out as they keep costing us points?:  My comments have usually been made with attached comment on what the management needed to do to put it right and those coaching/alternative pairing steps have not been taken, or if they have have been taken so ineffectively as to make no difference;  either way it does not make good reading for the manager.   To start I was a lone voice discussing Flems frailties and abused for it; it is now accepted that he has been struggling but I am sad it has come to this when the manager could have done so much more to prevent it coming to this.  

Surely a defence of Colin Fleming Shacks and Drury should, or any other the other squad defenders, should be able to keep more than 2 clean sheets in 9 games?  As I and Saint have pointed out what about the other central defencive partnerships? 

When so many goals are flying in and the main issue is the central pair change more than just one player.  Flem has been the consistent thread but Worthy never changes him not even against MK Dons or blackburn rovers.

But the really weak area of the pitch remains midfield... where the same organisation problems lie but without a squad 8/9 players who have the ability to perform at the required in this league - but thats another post.

OTBC

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[quote]my only complaint with Flem is that ,as captain he just isnt loud enough on the pitch. Yes he has bad games as do others. This time last year Holt got all the stick and was ''sleeping'' with the manag...[/quote]

commitment in fleming is not to be questioned i must agree.but that alone is not enough age has caught up with him no doubt.he has been made to look the fool on several occasions last and this season.marlon king made him look a real donkey the other night. it has started to make shackell look very sloppy recently.most of this looks to be shackells lack of confidence he has in him not to mention the rest of the defence. what i cannot understand is why he will not drop him at any cost.but we have players such as mcveigh nearly man of match against plymouth and then dropped against watford.allways been a worthy fan but i am becoming very frustrated with the i will not drop fleming fiasco.it could cost him his job if he keeps faith in fleming.l

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Totally agree with everything you''ve said here PC. The number of times people have said he''s lost the respect of the senior players/dressing room, without a single shred of evidence to back that up.

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while i do feel Flemmo needs dropping he doesnt need constant flack all the time.. dropping him proves that maybe he isnt up to the standard.. and its either up to him to raise his game or move on...

Heranguing him for just breathing is a bit daft... lets remember he''s been here since 1997 and has always been solid and dependable in the past.. hes 34 now and the legs maybe are going, it could be that championship football is too fast for him and its time he stepped down a level...

jas

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I''m one who has been worried that Flem, having had a poor season in the Premiership, does not seem to be playing much better this year, and whose regular mistakes may be causing problems for others, especially Shackle. We continue to leak goals, and a permanent player is Flem. Nobody can deny he has lost pace, that he gets out of position and sometimes fluffs tackles.

Having said that, which I am sure many would agree with, I have not singled out Flem. In many ways the midfield has underperformed for most of the time, and the strikers have missed many opportunities.

When we were last in what is now the Championship, we had an excellent defensive record, really mean in conceding goals. Whether Malky was the real reason, or whether his successors were not as good, the fact remains that last season the defence was like a sieve. Since then, pre-season and in the league, some fairly ordinary sides have scored against us, and we managed but one clean sheet, against Plymouth who could not finish!

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