Josh omission

[Matt Morriss 69]

yawn

He hasnt featured lately and the goals Jacob scored were in the early part of the season and against lower league opposition.

Both Murhpys consistently showed last season that they struggled against the better teams.

[lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0]

[quote user="Matt Morriss"]yawn

He hasnt featured lately and the goals Jacob scored were in the early part of the season and against lower league opposition.

Both Murhpys consistently showed last season that they struggled against the better teams.[/quote]

Agreed.

You need to look past the occasional flashes of brilliance. They both can be completely anonymous for large chunks of the game. Even players such as Wes on a off day, work hard and try to be involved, thus still having a positive team impact.

I honestly think Josh will be at his best from the bench halfway through the second half. I think he''d be a very effective weapon used this way.

[Matt Morriss 69]

Always thought this way about the Murphys. They''re decent against lesser teams, not so much against the top 10.

£12m for Jacob was daylight robbery and if we get offered anywhere near that again come January id take it.

[Woodman 92]

"but the second they come up against better teams with better defenders, IE Bristol, Boro, they disappear."

Difficult for him to ''disappear'' against Boro when he wasn''t even on the bench.

[hogesar 9,618]

[quote user="Woodman"]"but the second they come up against better teams with better defenders, IE Bristol, Boro, they disappear."

Difficult for him to ''disappear'' against Boro when he wasn''t even on the bench.[/quote]

Jacob also scored against Newcastle home and away last season, the best team in the division.

But it''s OK, because genius say''s he only ever scores against the bottom teams.

[Matt Morriss 69]

[quote user="Woodman"]"but the second they come up against better teams with better defenders, IE Bristol, Boro, they disappear."

Difficult for him to ''disappear'' against Boro when he wasn''t even on the bench.[/quote]

Sheff Utd I meant

[Matt Morriss 69]

[quote user="hogesar"][quote user="Woodman"]"but the second they come up against better teams with better defenders, IE Bristol, Boro, they disappear."

Difficult for him to ''disappear'' against Boro when he wasn''t even on the bench.[/quote]

Jacob also scored against Newcastle home and away last season, the best team in the division.

But it''s OK, because genius say''s he only ever scores against the bottom teams.

[/quote]

Im glad we both agree im a genius..

And im referring to his overall performance last season. Yes he scored against Newcastle, but overall he struggled against the better teams higher up the table. And surprise surprise that trend looks like its continuing this season.

[king canary 7,578]

You can debate whether Jacob is a Premier League level player (I happen to believe he could be given a run) but to claim their both ''lower Championship/Upper League One players'' is patently nonsense.

[Woodman 92]

[quote user="Matt Morriss"][quote user="Woodman"]"but the second they come up against better teams with better defenders, IE Bristol, Boro, they disappear."

Difficult for him to ''disappear'' against Boro when he wasn''t even on the bench.[/quote]

Sheff Utd I meant[/quote]

*sigh* - a game that we won 1-0...

[The gut 0]

[quote user="Woodman"]"but the second they come up against better teams with better defenders, IE Bristol, Boro, they disappear."

Difficult for him to ''disappear'' against Boro when he wasn''t even on the bench.[/quote]

I would say that was his best disappearance.

[Howson is now! 0]

You''re absolutely right GJP that there are a lot of players at the age of 22 who are much better/ more developed than both Murphys. The issue I have is that these players are not the norm. I often liken the Murphys to Redmond in that I actually felt that we as a club stunted Nathan Redmond''s development by expecting too much from him. Our style of play also didn''t compliment his development.

I remember saying at the time that we didn''t have the time, or quality of players around him to allow him to develop his skills and that if he went to a mid table Prem team I thought he would thrive. Look at his record already? He''s scored almost the same amount of goals, (11 for us and 7 for Southampton) in almost a third of the appearances. He is not expected to win games by himself as he''s not the best player in the team, and he is able to get things wrong as he has the quality around him.

I fear that if we continue to lean too heavily on a player who isn''t as developed as others his age, we''re going to see the same thing again. Too high expectations on someone who is still learning their trade and we''ll damage them. I just think he needs some guidance to enable his own realisation that it''s not down to him, and he needs to contribute to the team overall. The rest will come with experience.

[Matt Morriss 69]

[quote user="Woodman"][quote user="Matt Morriss"][quote user="Woodman"]"but the second they come up against better teams with better defenders, IE Bristol, Boro, they disappear."

Difficult for him to ''disappear'' against Boro when he wasn''t even on the bench.[/quote]

Sheff Utd I meant[/quote]

*sigh* - a game that we won 1-0...[/quote]

Irrelevant we won, he was poor and the commentators said as much. And yes I wasnt there so am just going by radio norfolk.

[Matt Morriss 69]

[quote user="king canary"]You can debate whether Jacob is a Premier League level player (I happen to believe he could be given a run) but to claim their both ''lower Championship/Upper League One players'' is patently nonsense.[/quote]

I dont believe its nonsense at all.

Leaving Jacob out of it as you say he may come good given a run, I personally dont think he will and being at a premier league club doesn''t necessarily make you a premier league player, but you never know he may come good.

I do however believe that Josh is indeed a lower championship player. And this is based 100% on the facts so far. And the facts are both Murphys excelled at League 1 level. They also excelled when up against the poor defences of the lower table teams of last season.

However my point is that they both have consistently struggled when faced with the better teams in the league. I have seen this time and time again. Up against a decent defence, which normally coincides with teams in the top half of the table, but isnt restricted to this, they have been poor.

If I am wrong and they have consistently performed at there best when we have played the better teams, then please put forth your argument because I am only going by the performances of last season.

[king canary 7,578]

I don''t judge players on that basis though- last season the entire team struggled against the top teams. It was a regularly highlighted fact and one of the main reasons we missed out on the top 6. Does that mean Alex Pritchard is a lower level Championship player? Or does it just count for the Murphy''s

Jacob Murphy in his first season of Championship football hit double figures in goals and was generally one of the stand out young players of the season. To say he''s lower level Championship is not a fact its an opinion and one that clearly quite a few with much more knowledge of football than you don''t share.

[peter-plastic 0]

just watched his interview pre Bristol, I think, on the follow app . For me, there wasn''t a hint of arrogance from him in the whole 12 minutes. the Tom trybull "doesn''t even look like a footballer" comment was made amongst a whole list of superlatives,such as "hidden gem" in praise of trybull''s impact. I guess his omission for boro must have been due to something after the Bristol game. if it was due to anything said in that interview, then I''d be reluctant to ever speak if I was a footballer.

[non-scoring strikers 113]

The most fortunate thing about both Murphys is that Norwich stand to benefit greatly from the ''young English player tax''. We already have done for Jacob because Newcastle were floundering in the transfer market and needed a shot-in-the-arm signing to appease their fans.

It''s also worth remembering that last year Jacob changed his agency to the firm who represent Rio Ferdinand, hence why Rio was often tweeting about Jacob throughout the season. This bolstered his reputation and price no end, and the way that football works this promotion has also rubbed off on Josh by proxy.

Neither Murphy are good enough for a Championship promotion push and most certainly not the Premier League, but a lack of wide players produced in this country in recent years has bolstered their value... as well as being young and English, as previously mentioned. They both have goals in them and can maybe take it past a defender once or, on a good day, twice in a game but the defender will always touch the ball. They do not ''skip past'' defenders like a commenter posted further up this thread. Neither of them have what we refer to as a ''football brain'', essentially meaning their decision making is very limited, usually poor.

I well remember watching both make their first team debuts and thinking these guys just aren''t good enough. It''s sweet that they came through our academy (with countless other lower league tradesmen) and they both have a bit of pace, which has bloated many a fans perception of the actual skill they possess, but I could tell from that early point they would never be consistently good players. I wanted them to change my mind but was sceptical they would.

Not much has changed from then ''til now in terms of their development, other than that Jacob has moved for a preposterous fee to a club well above his station, but then that''s modern football for you.

[Horse Renoir 1]

Seems like he just didn''t work hard enough in training this week, whether through being distracted or issues away from the club I dunno but good to see Farke stamping it out immediately.

If I was to guess from his body language v Bristol he seemed to be getting fed up with all the off the ball work and might have wanted to just be allowed to play what he feels is a his natural game, a purely attacking role. Despite his ability and potential he''s not good enough to justify that role at this level, nor is pretty much anyone in our squad, even Wes really gets stuck in nowadays. Even if we had a 27 year old Huckerby I bet he''d have to do an awful lot more work to the detriment of his forward play if he was playing in 2017

Probably just got frustrated but has been dealt with well it seems. Hopefully he comes back soon in the right frame of mind.

[lake district canary 4,531]

Interesting stuff from Farke and Klose.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmSx6R0S508

[Van wink 2,994]

I love the way Farke speaks.

He has come out and been very honest about Josh and his poor attitude, but has finished his report in a really positive way.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="Van wink"]I love the way Farke speaks.

He has come out and been very honest about Josh and his poor attitude, but has finished his report in a really positive way.[/quote]Yes, it''s so refreshing and it''s not just about single man management either, it''s to do with squad management and laying down the framework in which everyone knows what is required to be part of the group.

 

[The Bristol Nest 513]

I missed the Josh issue. What allegedly happened?

[kick it off 1,948]

[quote user="bristolcanary"]I missed the Josh issue. What allegedly happened?[/quote]

No-one seems to know.

The only thing I''ve seen/heard is one random on Twitter saying that he missed training on Monday because he went on the lash with his brother on Sunday night in Brighton (after the Newcastle game down there).

As I say, the "source" of that rumour is a complete random on Twitter and I do not vouch for the veracity of it, although my opinion is that it possibly actually might be accurate as it seems to fit with what Klose and Farke were saying in the press conference.

[djc 0]

Josh has spent somespare time with Jacob, and i wonder if sibling rivalry is kicking in? Or envy oerhaps?

[Rogue Baboon 0]

If this is true (I have heard similar, albeit that Josh went to Newcastle) surely missing training the day before a huge game is one of the worst things a professional footballer can do?

[Herman 9,713]

[quote user="djc"]Josh has spent somespare time with Jacob, and i wonder if sibling rivalry is kicking in? Or envy oerhaps?[/quote]Maybe. Could also be struggling with not having his twin brother around. No expert, but don''t twins have a closer kinship than normal siblings? And yes, they have been split in the past, but this is more permanent than before.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="Herman"][quote user="djc"]Josh has spent somespare time with Jacob, and i wonder if sibling rivalry is kicking in? Or envy oerhaps?[/quote]Maybe. Could also be struggling with not having his twin brother around. No expert, but don''t twins have a closer kinship than normal siblings? And yes, they have been split in the past, but this is more permanent than before.[/quote]Still not something that should happen, twins or not - so there must be an issue there because you just don''t miss training for the sake of it.   Neither twin can be having a very good time, Jacob can''t get on the pitch, Josh is struggling on it, but they have to deal with it and simply speaking, Josh has to toughen up.  It sounds as if Farke is astute enough to deal with things well for the good of the club and the player, so it is not going to be a major crisis for Josh.  Hopefully, he will be the better for whatever has happened and can grow as a person and player from it.  

[king canary 7,578]

No point wildly speculating at this point, both Farke and Klose have said the issue is dealt with so we move on. Happy to have him back as an option today.

[lake district canary 4,531]

No wild speculatimg going on as far as I can see, but Josh did something out of turn and has been pulled up for it.  He may be left out of the team today as well, but may be a sub and if needed, brought on to help win us the game - that would be a perfect response for all parties.

[Bonzo 198]

The challenge for Josh is perhaps greater than for his brother and if he passes it then he will become a far better player. In a way Josh has always had it tougher than most players because most sibling rivalries don''t usually result in brothers being in the same career and working for the same employer.Being the one who seems to have been left behind out of the two siblings might be giving him some unhelpful thoughts. This is to be expected. Farke has handled this situation well. Josh must be hurting but in a way this challenge is his chance to become a better player. So much of the game is about the mental approach. The mind chooses what to do both on the pitch and in life and Josh must choose well. Given his burning desire I have every confidence that he will. He might think he has been held back but if he thinks in a different way he might also discover that strangely this present difficulty will be the making of him.

[daly 500]

Seen at the Labour party Conference with Delia, Pixie and BallsUP