YankeeCanary 0 Posted September 17, 2005 This message board draws, and will continue draw, diverse opinions from posters stretching from one extreme to the other. That is the nature of the beast. The thing that I find most amusing ( it usually generates a wry smile as I sit here reading ) is the blind optimism generated by those who cannot rise to the bait of objectivity, even when the hook is being dangled right under their "I can''t get enough of Carrow Road" gaping mouths. Without attending the matches at all ( last season and this  I am still able to reasonably predict what the likely scenario is that we will face given our beloved club''s decisions and choices. For example, last season, after having seen a few performances on television, I staid the opinion on this board by late September that we would be relegated with about 32 points. I well remember there were many blind optimists ( people who actually attend the games ) who had us surviving with anywhere from 42 to 48 points. I believe we managed 33. Following relegation, given our club''s anaemic approach during the ensuing off season, before a game was played this season I predicted that after 10 games at best we would be mid-table and trailing some fast starting club who who would be leading the pack with 24 or 25 points. Even Zippers, a poster whose objectivity I highly respect, did not see any club amassing that total in this very competitive league. Well, Sheffield United put paid to Zippers thought even before 10 games have been played and Reading are not far behind. Many posters chastised/ridiculed my point of view as a that of a blind pessimist. Apparently, I was not pessimistic enough because, lose tomorrow, and we will be anchoring the bottom. Now the blind optimists are clinging to the thought that patience will see us rising up the table as if there is some divine right or waving of the wand that will allow this to happen. Even Nigel puts his foot in his mouth by citing the Crystal Palace recovery achievement in their last Championship effort, without also citing what caused the turnaround. This is what blind optimists do....they reach for straws. If we do not change our approach on management and coaching now we will most likely be entertaining Chesterfield, Blackpool and Yeovil next season. Now, I will rest my fingers from the keyboard and wait for Dicky and company to point out that, as I don''t attend the games, my opinions are all wet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sheded 0 Posted September 17, 2005 [quote]This message board draws, and will continue draw, diverse opinions from posters stretching from one extreme to the other. That is the nature of the beast. The thing that I find most amusing ( it usual...[/quote] All very interesting Yankee , so the management and coaching are the reason we are struggling at the present ? It was in this division that the same management and coaches got us into the prem last season ! .... so what factor has changed since then ? .... waits with gaping mouth Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ronbol ronbol 0 Posted September 18, 2005 It''s up-to the players on the pitch, they are paid to play whatever tactics the management sees fit.Sometimes the team selections can be slightly puzzling, but at the end of the day they are all paid to play no matter who is in the team.constantly blaming the manager is getting a pretty lame excuse. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GJD 0 Posted September 18, 2005 Well if you stated all that then you are a real soothsayer! So what’s the score going to be for the big clash and what are next Saturday’s lottery numbers as well while you at it! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YankeeCanary 0 Posted September 18, 2005 Now come on sheded, you really don''t need me to be repetitive on either the issues over the past 15+ months or the variables that exist since that time versus today. Or perhaps you do, with brevity. We won the Championship in 2003-04 not because we were outstanding but because the competition faded away at key times, with the exception of WBA. Plus, when the players ( at that time ) had the bit between their teeth and could smell the Premiership at the end of the season we were able to put a run of wins together. Despite that, many posters on this and other forums felt many of our performances left much to be desired throughout the season and Worthy and the coaches received much criticism. En masse, once promotion looked definite almost all of us jumped on the wings of euphoria and forgot the danger signals we had seen throughout. Perhaps we thought we would adequately address those weaknesses before Premiership action got underway. We did not and the weaknesses we had we took into the Premiership and paid the price. We came back to the Championship with a view that what we had was good enough to gain promotion again and address the key weaknesses at a later date for another assault . on the Premiership. If we did not have that view that is what our club''s actions illustrated coming into this season. Many of the posters on this forum agreed with the club, with comments such as "we will score goals by the hatful", "Holt type midfield replacements are good enough for this division", "Worthy got us up before, he will do it again", "Fleming is good enough for the Championship" etc etc. Some of the more objective posters saw the danger and expressed their concerns. How much of a price do we want to pay before biting the bullet on at least two or three key issues, all of which have been identified ad nauseam? We are now under-performing against my expectations and I''m the pessimist, remember? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Plastic Scouser 0 Posted September 18, 2005 Sheded - the same outstanding management team that got us promoted also got us relegated. Now that WAS a success wasn''t it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gentleman Jim 0 Posted September 18, 2005 Well done YC, your reasoning on that post turned out to be accurate. Most of the replies that day were hostile that you challenged their optimistic views and some individuals must now be grudgingly admitting you were right and they were wrong.If you had left out your idea of the leading teams , (Leicester top, Palace 3rd, Sheff Utd 7th),you would have been totally correct..... ( nitpicky that, sorry) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sheded 0 Posted September 18, 2005 [quote]Now come on sheded, you really don''t need me to be repetitive on either the issues over the past 15+ months or the variables that exist since that time versus today. Or perhaps you do, with brevity. W...[/quote] I like brevity Yankee ! and your mention of the " variables " just about sums up how hard it is for even the best of management to get it right ! variables like players not performing when we were in the prem , " strikers " who , repeatedly missed " sitters " when it SHOULD have been EASIER to put the ball IN the net than miss it ! McKenzie and Franicis were the biggest offenders .. it could be said that it was the managements fault for not getting a grip , and I`m pretty sure they did try ! but , like Nigel said , " You can lead a horse to water ... " Variables like trying to pick suitable players on a shoestring budget , juggling the clubs finances ,so we don`t nosedive like Leeds , injuries that force a limited squad to play below par , and out of position , the list goes on and on ... its why managers EXPECT to be fired if luck deserts them , and its that luck factor that IS the biggest variable !! Well , Plastic Scouser , thats my twopenn`th but just to remind you , was it the managers fault when most of the players performed worse than a Sunday league side in that crucial final game of last season ?? did you see the look on Nigels face when he waded into Francis , thought he was going to dropkick him , he should`ve ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YankeeCanary 0 Posted September 18, 2005 Hi sheded. I understand there is some merit in the points you make but, at the end of the day, when you look at the variables you cite, many clubs are faced with exactly the same issues. Whether one rises above those things is usually dependent upon how management is able to instill motivation and tactics to deal with the same before each match begins. Shortfalls over two or one or three games can be accepted. Over a longer period of time, of course, and it just becomes excuses. As you correctly say, when things go way wrong that is why managers get fired, because it is more practical then firing the whole squad. To put the whole issue on the shoulder of luck I''m afraid does not now, nor has it ever, been acceptable in football.Regardless, here I am before 4 a.m. vacationing on the west coast of the U.S. listening to the game and hoping beyond hope that we stuff Ipswich. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FatMan Fat 0 Posted September 18, 2005 The fact is that managers get judged on their results relative to the resources available to them.For this reason Dario O''Grady does not sacked by Crewe despite the fact that they do little but survive in the Championship - he achieves the expectation of the Board and the fans.With Worthington the situation is different. He has been given more money to spend than any other manager in our history. He has a hugely supportive Board. In many people''s eyes he failed last year by failing to achieve the single away win that would have secured survival. This has to be down over the whole season to his tactics and his selections. Occassuionally the players will not perform, but if that happens over the whole course of a season then it has to be the responsibility of the manager who could/should have changed the tactics, coaching and selections. Add to that the debacle of Fulham, with the total surrender in a match that we should have shown intense will to win. Worthington had the resources last year to engineer survival and he failed.He has the resources this year and again he is failing."Blind Optimism" will not change our results - only good management will. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites