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Did Arsenal Break The Rules Regarding Subs ?

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Paddy or Michael B tweeted last night that an FA rep came into the press room to say that no rules had been broken, but I also saw tweets with copies of the rule itself which clearly state that a 4th substitute - singular, not plural - can be made in extra time.

But its Arsenal, so I''m sure nothing will be done...

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In short no I don;t think they did. The wording is i suppose a bit ambiguous but you would have to place such a spin on it to argue they broke the rules.

In essence you would have to conclude that the rules require all 3 of the regulation subs to be made within the original 90 minutes which has never been the case.

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[quote user="Woodman"]Paddy or Michael B tweeted last night that an FA rep came into the press room to say that no rules had been broken, but I also saw tweets with copies of the rule itself which clearly state that a 4th substitute - singular, not plural - can be made in extra time.

But its Arsenal, so I''m sure nothing will be done...[/quote]

It says an additional substitute can be made in extra time but it doesn''t say that the first 3 all have to be made in normal time.

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The rule definitely says ''additional substitute''Rule 10.2 states: "Where any match goes to extra time (in accordance

with the provisions of Rules 14.4, 14.5 and/or 14.6), then subject to

the League having obtained the prior approval of the International

Football Association Board (IFAB) to the application of this Rule, each

Club participating in that match will be permitted to use an additional

substitute (in extra time only)."
The S** must be desperate to get clicks if they pose a question and then answer it themselves.

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Read it a couple of times and to be honest it seems straight forward. Cutting the qualifying statements about rules and prior approval we end up with....

Where any match goes to extra time, each Club participating in that match will be permitted to use an additional substitute.

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[quote user="Hairy Canary"]Read it a couple of times and to be honest it seems straight forward. Cutting the qualifying statements about rules and prior approval we end up with....

Where any match goes to extra time, each Club participating in that match will be permitted to use an additional substitute.[/quote]yep, that''s about itit doesn''t matter whether the three previous subs have not been used until extra time, they can be used at anytime in the 90mins or in extra timeif the game goes into extra time that qualifies both sides to use another submy concern is that we are heeding towards an almost rotation system as in friendlies

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From football365;Were Bristol Rovers disqualified or punished after they made two changes in extra-time in round two? No.Were Bournemouth disqualified or punished after they made two changes in extra-time in round two? No.Were Brighton disqualified or punished after they made four changes in extra-time in round two? No.Were Burnley disqualified or punished after they made two changes in extra-time in round two? No.Were Brentford disqualified or punished after they made two changes in extra-time in round one? No.Were Portsmouth disqualified or punished after they made two changes in extra-time in round one? No.Were Cardiff City disqualified or punished after they made two changes in extra-time in round two? No.Makes you wonder at what stage did The S** not understand the rules seeing they have such brilliant ''journalists'' like Charlie Wyatt working for them?

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The fact of the matter is that arsenal had an extra pair of fresh legs than they were permitted to....at a time when many of our players were flagging.

We adhered to the rules by making sure we used our alloted 3 in normal time using our last 2 in 90min

They didn''t and cheated by bringing on 2 in extra time.

Just add it to the list of other Injustices on the evening.

Anyone remember a league cup match at arsenal in the early 90s when we took the lead through ian crook.....a few minutes later chris Sutton,clean through was brought down by Tony adams who was only given a yellow. Ian wrighr equalized late on and they won the replay.

25 yrs on and still being cheated by arsenal in this competition

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But the fact of the matter is that they didn''t GJL. They were permitted to do what they did.

in any event I don;t want a replay even if they had broken the rules. We played well, we bow out with our heads held high. We don;t need any more games at the moment, the squad is creaking as it is.

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Does anyone actually know the score on this one? The article on the homepage contradicts itself as it says Arsenal didnt break the rules.

Then it says Arsenal made two subs in extra time, to be followed by the rule explanation than only 1 sub is to be allowed in extra time???

very poorly written article. From what i have gathered by my brief scouring of this incident, Arsenal did break the rules by using 2 subs in extra time, as the rules clearly state a 4th sub can be used, but only 1 in extra time.

So we adhered as we made 3 in normal time and 1 in extra. Arsenal made 2 in normal and 2 in extra, this breaking the rules.

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[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]The fact of the matter is that arsenal had an extra pair of fresh legs than they were permitted to....at a time when many of our players were flagging.

We adhered to the rules by making sure we used our alloted 3 in normal time using our last 2 in 90min

They didn''t and cheated by bringing on 2 in extra time.

J
ust add it to the list of other Injustices on the evening.

Anyone remember a league cup match at arsenal in the early 90s when we took the lead through ian crook.....a few minutes later chris Sutton,clean through was brought down by Tony adams who was only given a yellow. Ian wrighr equalized late on and they won the replay.

25 yrs on and still being cheated by arsenal in this competition[/quote]No, that is just you being silly.On that matter Arsenal did not cheat nor go against the spirit of the law. Regurgitating lies helps no one.The ''missed'' red card and the penalty were not Arsenal cheating either ... those decisions were those of the referee. Whether they was any thing beyond that we don''t know. But it would help if you stuck to what we do know.Arsenal were entitled to make that substitution.

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[quote user="Hairy Canary"]Read it a couple of times and to be honest it seems straight forward. Cutting the qualifying statements about rules and prior approval we end up with....

Where any match goes to extra time, each Club participating in that match will be permitted to use an additional substitute.[/quote]

Isnt the issue though that Arsenal made two subs, 4 in total, in extra time? or have i got that wrong?

We made 4 subs too, 3 in normal, 1 in extra, as per the rules.

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[quote user="Matt Morriss"][quote user="Hairy Canary"]Read it a couple of times and to be honest it seems straight forward. Cutting the qualifying statements about rules and prior approval we end up with....

Where any match goes to extra time, each Club participating in that match will be permitted to use an additional substitute.[/quote]

Isnt the issue though that Arsenal made two subs, 4 in total, in extra time? or have i got that wrong?

We made 4 subs too, 3 in normal, 1 in extra, as per the rules.[/quote]

Indeed

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[quote user="TCCANARY"]From football365;Were Bristol Rovers disqualified or punished after they made two changes in extra-time in round two? No.Were Bournemouth disqualified or punished after they made two changes in extra-time in round two? No.Were Brighton disqualified or punished after they made four changes in extra-time in round two? No.Were Burnley disqualified or punished after they made two changes in extra-time in round two? No.Were Brentford disqualified or punished after they made two changes in extra-time in round one? No.Were Portsmouth disqualified or punished after they made two changes in extra-time in round one? No.Were Cardiff City disqualified or punished after they made two changes in extra-time in round two? No.Makes you wonder at what stage did The S** not understand the rules seeing they have such brilliant ''journalists'' like Charlie Wyatt working for them?

[/quote]err, it is the sunmost of their football comment is merely pulled down of other sitesremember the shyte they posted up about QPR being deducyed 15 pointsit is a measure of the stupidity of folk in the UK that they want to read ill informed twaddle

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[quote user="Matt Morriss"]Does anyone actually know the score on this one? The article on the homepage contradicts itself as it says Arsenal didnt break the rules.

Then it says Arsenal made two subs in extra time, to be followed by the rule explanation than only 1 sub is to be allowed in extra time???

very poorly written article. From what i have gathered by my brief scouring of this incident, Arsenal did break the rules by using 2 subs in extra time, as the rules clearly state a 4th sub can be used, but only 1 in extra time.

So we adhered as we made 3 in normal time and 1 in extra. Arsenal made 2 in normal and 2 in extra, this breaking the rules.[/quote]yes I did post this earlier"it doesn''t matter whether the three previous subs have not been used

until extra time, they can be used at anytime in the 90mins or in extra

timeif the game goes into extra time that qualifies both sides to use another sub"The article DOES NOT contradict itself - it''s just you not understanding it, that''s all

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[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"][quote user="Matt Morriss"][quote user="Hairy Canary"]Read it a couple of times and to be honest it seems straight forward. Cutting the qualifying statements about rules and prior approval we end up with....

Where any match goes to extra time, each Club participating in that match will be permitted to use an additional substitute.[/quote]

Isnt the issue though that Arsenal made two subs, 4 in total, in extra time? or have i got that wrong?

We made 4 subs too, 3 in normal, 1 in extra, as per the rules.[/quote]

Indeed[/quote]The ambiguity is over the "an additional substitute". Does that mean one more than the three allowed in normal time or one more than you have made in normal time.I imagine the rule was brought in so that teams that had made the three changes could then make another in extra time. The main aim was not to help a club that had only made two changes. But I think logic dictates that teams have to be allowed to make the same number of changes overall. In other words, you have to be able to bring on the same number of fresh players. And a side that - it can be argued - has gambled by only making two changes is therefore entitled to make two more. The additional has to mean one more than the three.

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The additional has to mean one more than the three.exactlyI believe Leeds (?) actually brought on all four subs in their extra 30 minsIt is quite clearA team can use all 3 subs during the 90 and the exxtra 30 minsIf there is an extra 30 mins they will be able to use 4 subs, that 4th sub ONLY being allowed to be made in the extra 30 mins

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The rule says An additional substitution can be made in extra time. This is known now as the fourth substitute.

The rule does not state when subs 1, 2 or 3 may be introduced. Arsenal made their 3rd change in extra time, and could then introduce sub 4 (in extra time) as the rule permits.

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This throws up an interesting scenario possibly, what if a team had 4 injuries in 90 minutes but only use three subs, meaning they are down to 10 men for say 10 mins of normal time, would they then be allowed to go back up to 11 players in extra time?

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TCCanary - I checked, and only two of the games listed went to extra time!!.

Arsenal did not break any rules, you are allowed three subs at any point of normal time and extra time, so if you only make two subs in normal time yo can make two more in extra time, the third of your usual three subs and your additional fourth sub.

Baldyboy - I do not think that would be allowed as the scenario you posted is not a substitution, i.e. switching one player for another.......

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Man city also. made 2 substitutions in ET, after making 2 in normal time. interestingly, Wolves bought on, their 3rd substitute, at the beginning of extra time. (as opposed to rush the 3rd substitution through during normal time,) suggesting they also knew they still had the option of a further substitution up their sleeve if needed. "An additional substitution" then has to taken to mean ''an additional'' to the max of 3 rather than "an addional" to those already made.

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Rhubarb wrote the following post at 25/10/2017 4:28 PM:

"It is quite clear

A team can use all 3 subs during the 90 and the exxtra 30 mins

If there is an extra 30 mins they will be able to use 4 subs,

that 4th sub ONLY being allowed to be made in the extra 30 mins"

That is the correct interpretation of the rule and (astonishingly for once) you are right. 👍

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[quote user="Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB"]TCCanary - I checked, and only two of the games listed went to extra time!!. [/quote]Thanks for the check. I''ll treat the info from football365.com with a bit more care in future.

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