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Hoola Han Solo

Vrancic

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@ldc

Dont take this as a dig, as it isn''t but have you seen much of us since we went on this run? One of the more noticeable changes is that the full backs are much less adventurous going forward so don''t provide the same sort of width they did last season.

I think Maddison, Vrancic and Pritchard would struggle as a trio as they all want to occupy the same central space. I think you have to play one of Wildschut or Murphy on one flank to allow play to stretch out a bit more.

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I didn’t aim to anoint him a whipping boy. However, in all the games I’ve seen him at Carrow Road, he’s been completely off the pace. I’m not the only one either, Michael Bailey gave him a 5 in his ratings, which was about fair. Not a bad player by any means but I just cannot see how he will regularly fit into our system - and especially when Pritchard is back. Where would others actually play him in the team, that would be my question.

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Would Vrancic not be better playing deeper, as one of the two ‘sitters’ when we are playing at home against teams that sit deep?

His game is never going to be playing in tight spaces or closing players down quickly, like a Hoolahan or Pritchard, or playing with pace in the wings like Murphy or Wildschut

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[quote user="Van wink"]Vranic, the whipping boy of those that cannot see.[/quote]

and it seemed to me most of the city stand.

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Think Vrancic would be best deployed as a sub, coming on for someone like Maddison when we''re comfortably ahead etc.

Foot on the ball and possession retention, like Gary O''neil sort of did (when he wasn''t chopping ankles).

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Totally agree about the lack of desire from Vrancic. I mean, I only remember him doing great work in the right back position to win the ball cleanly when the opposition were in a dangerous area. And that incident when he kept hold of the ball on the edge of Hull area, holding off about 5 Hull defenders despite being hustled and tackled, yet still emerging with the ball.

A player with desire would have run around after the ball a bit more.

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[quote user="king canary"]@ldc

Dont take this as a dig, as it isn''t but have you seen much of us since we went on this run? One of the more noticeable changes is that the full backs are much less adventurous going forward so don''t provide the same sort of width they did last season.

I think Maddison, Vrancic and Pritchard would struggle as a trio as they all want to occupy the same central space. I think you have to play one of Wildschut or Murphy on one flank to allow play to stretch out a bit more.[/quote]

The last match I was at was Sheffield Utd, the start of the run, but I accept that the full backs may be less adventurous if you say so. As for Maddison, Pritchard and Vrancic as the midfield three, if you accept that Pritchard can play left - which he can - and that Maddison could play on the right of midfield - and I see no reason why he can''t, then you do have your best ball players in the team.  they would have to adapt their game a bit - but then if they are good enough they will be able to adapt. 

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Why would we play Maddison AND Pritchard in positions where they ‘can’ play?

Surely you pick your best players in their best positions and go from there?

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The fullbacks are definitely less adventurous. It appears that they can risk crossing the half way line once or twice without risk of being dropped.

The defensive midfield are allowed about the same level of adventure as the fullbacks.

The attacking midfielders are allowed a bit of adventure so long as it’s not at speed and only one is permitted some adventure at any one time.

The lone striker is allowed adventure up to the D but must be sure that any entries into the box are only permitted if at least 7 other players remain in our own half.

It was class yesterday when Angus was asking for some adventure for the last corner of the game but was clearly told no no no!

Got to be fair - turned out that no adventure worked and we got a well earned draw.

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[quote user="Ian"]Totally agree about the lack of desire from Vrancic. I mean, I only remember him doing great work in the right back position to win the ball cleanly when the opposition were in a dangerous area. And that incident when he kept hold of the ball on the edge of Hull area, holding off about 5 Hull defenders despite being hustled and tackled, yet still emerging with the ball.

A player with desire would have run around after the ball a bit more.[/quote]Don''t forget the pass that led to Wildschutt''s chance from which he should have scored. Was a great ball from Vrancic. I''ve said this in other places, but he (Vrancic) is so laconic in his playing style it alsmost seems as though he isn''t doing much in a game. Then you watch highlights back and notice that he was actually involved in some crucial moments. But, yes, he is a frustrating fellow to watch at times! Also, he seems to lack strength and any desire to make tackles which is quite annoying.

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It is daft, given the potential match winning passes he makes that he is getting quite so much criticism, when the players who can''t finish the chances he has created get away with hardly any criticism.   If  he only makes one match winning pass a game, that should be enough for anyone - and he did that on Saturday, if Wildschut had finished as he should have done.   As for whoever mentioned my criticism of Snodgrass, that is something else - he hardly ever looked to supply team mates with a chance preferring to try and do it on his own, but looked busy - Vrancic is the opposite of that, looks a little laconic sometimes - but he does provide guilt edged chances for others....goldust.  All Vrancic needs is for players around him to do what they are supposed to do - and maybe add to what he is doing by getting a goal or two himself - and he showed at Brentford he is quite capable of that.

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hull must be a strange lot - vrancic doesnt move but he won as many tackles as any other city player. Why didnt they just go around him?

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He''s a bit of a strange one. Clearly has some class about him and every time he plays he will play 2 or 3 fantastic passes. On Saturday again one of these at least should have led to a goal but Wildshut couldn''t finish. Were our forwards a little less wasteful then Vrancic would probably have quite a few assists to his name.

BUT he does rather slow our attacks down at times and still needs a bit too much time on the ball for this level and also I think he needs to build himself up a bit more physically. Personally I hope Murphy is back for the sc*m and I would play Murphy and Wildshutt out wide to give us real pace on the counter.

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I watched a replay of the entire game yesterday and thought that he had a more than decent game. Some of his passing was superb and he''s decent on the ball.

Of course it is more difficult to assess his overall contribution from the small screen but it does seem evident that it is a case of criticise first and evaluate later for some and that Vrancic has already been lined up a the next scapegoat for those sad fans in need of such a thing.

He wears the yellow and green for goodness sake, and DF knows best in any case. That''s obvious.

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Thanks for posting that Renoir - strangely this thread has gone very quiet.

Interesting article too, and I agree with a lot of it. I think it''s a little too OTT in its praise for Vrancic, but certainly illustrates a lot of my feelings on the player.

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[quote user="Horse Renoir"]This is spot on

http://norwichcity.myfootballwriter.com/2017/10/17/vrancic-the-enigma-a-bit-slow-and-lazy-or-one-step-ahead-of-the-rest/[/quote]
[Y]

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He''s neither the dogsh1te in KC''s article nor is he Messi''s love child that Ian seems to see.

He has some top qualities, particularly his range of passing but he has limitations too particularly when we don''t have the ball and when we need to break quickly. He''s a good option in some situations and not so in others. I trust Farke to get it right and pick him when it benefits the team.

My instinct is that Farke wouldn''t be playing him too often if we had a fully fit squad as his talents best suit the middle of the park where were we have through necessity had to employ a more defensive mindset.

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"Messi''s love child."

It''s a fallacy to attribute things to people that they''ve not actually said. If you could actually point out where I''ve said anything that implies it, I would be happy to accept the correction.

Although it seems like it might be a bit of a challenge for you to actually read, I have simply been pointing out that he is unfairly criticised; the latest boo-boy in the absence of Russell Martin. I have never implied he is some incredible player who should be picked at all costs. Of course he has limitations; he would not be playing for us if he didn''t.

Also, Messi''s Love child would be realistically be about 14/15 years old, so at 28 years of age Vrancic is a little too old. :)

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It was tongue in cheek Ian. To be honest I thought that would have been obvious?

Maybe the real challenge of reading is not just about the words that are written but more about understanding what is being said. If you try again you''ll see that you and I have a pretty similar view of Vrancic''s ability so really no need for the insults.

Oh and :)

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@ian

This sort of thing is what grinds my gears a touch- the idea on this forum that anyone who doesn''t think a player is all that is a ''boo boy'' or looking for a ''scapegoat.''

I think I''ve put my thoughts across on Vrancic in a reasonable manner, I''m not looking for someone to boo, I just have a different opinion to you.

It''s been the same with Martin, Naismith, Whittaker amongst others. Sure I get some fans go OTT on the criticism but to dismiss them all as ''boo-boys'' is patronising as hell.

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