Guest Posted October 18, 2017 Not dismissing them all as boo boys. Valid criticism is just that.Slating a player whatever they do is something a lot of fans do, Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kingsway 94 Posted October 19, 2017 Quite agree Ian!We''ve seen it this season with the much maligned Russell Martin!He started at CB away at Millwall because he was outstanding in that position during the midweek win over Charlton!Millwall was painful but Russell Martin was far from being our worst player that day yet was the scapegoat and our subsequent revival has been completely down to him not being in the team!As for Vranic I stand by my viewpoint. Yes hes good with the ball but his lack of energy and slow tempo renders him not good enough at Championship level. Wait till the end of the season and lets see what sort of season Vranic has had for us. If he continues as he has so far he would of come up well short and I''ll say "told you so!". But if he manages to find a faster tempo and more energy I''ll come on here, hold my hands up and I''ll admit I was wrong and be glad Vranic has been such a useful player for us! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hogesar 9,503 Posted October 19, 2017 There have been boo boys, scapegoats for football fans since like ever, to think they dont exist is nonsensical.Look at the kind of abuse RM has had over the last year. Irrespective of his performance on a particular week. Its been ridiculous and sometimes been personal too. He became a scapegoat figure for a loud minority of fans. You cant escape or deny that, the posts are on this forum. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kingsway 94 Posted October 19, 2017 Absolutely!If Vranic does half what Russell Martin has for Norwich he would have been a massive success but I can''t see it happening! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Red Rufus 56 Posted October 25, 2017 I thought it worth reopening this post after last nights performance, any changing opinions? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FenwayFrank 2,425 Posted October 25, 2017 I thought he did ok, didn’t stand out but didn’t let us down either. I’m sure some will just remember the horrible miss though and just judge him on that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Year of the tiger 51 Posted October 25, 2017 I''ve no doubt about his skill etc. I just feel he is probably not suited to th intensity of the English game. Given time & space great but not commodities in abundance in the Championship Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hogesar 9,503 Posted October 25, 2017 Quality on the ball. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 25, 2017 I thought his chance last night probably summed up his performances for Norwich so far - great positioning, fantastic turn to wipe out the entire Arsenal defence, and then an atrocious finish.Good use of the ball, clearly has that game-changing ability, but wasn''t involved enough in the match. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557 Posted October 25, 2017 Vrancic would do better if played in a deeper role - which is where he has nearly always played in his career. Unfortunately for him Trybull and Tettey/Reed are played there to provide a more solid base to the midfield. Would be interesting to see him played alongside Trybull in some home games where there may be less emphasis on Norwich to defend, and he would be able to create a few more chances than Norwich are currently creating. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
king canary 7,455 Posted October 25, 2017 Agree with that Bethnal.Thought Vrancic was a bit more dynamic last night which was good to see. His finishing was poor but he was hardly alone in that and he didn''t seem to want to slow down play all the time which was good.I''m still not keen on him in that right wing position. I would have taken him off for Yanic at about the 70 minute mark to give us a bit of an out-ball when we were being pinned back. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kingsway 94 Posted October 25, 2017 Because of his lack of pace, energy and general get up and go, I cannot see Vrancic doing much for Norwich as I''ve previously mentioned on here but I can see the bloke has class with the ball at his feet. He done well last night at Arsenal spraying some good passes around until he tired badly and his chance was poorly executed!I''d say playing against a team like Arsenal suits him more than the hustle and bustle of the Championship? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Red Rufus 56 Posted October 25, 2017 I would agree with that, Arsenal are a team he is suited to play against as opposed to the hurly burly championship style. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
westcoastcanary 173 Posted October 26, 2017 I don''t at all agree that Vrancic''s goal effort was either "atrocious finishing" or "poorly executed". The replay shows he had the situation weighed up exactly right, checked back on his left to unbalance the two covering defenders, saw the shot to the far post was well covered by the keeper, and sought to outsmart all three with a hard struck shot just inside the near post. The fact that the shot was about eighteen inches right of where he intended was unfortunate, but about the only player I can think of who is usually deadly in that sort of situation is Arsenal''s Giroud. It would be interesting to know what the xG value of Vrancic''s chance was. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
king canary 7,455 Posted October 26, 2017 He had another shot in the first half where he broke forward and hit a pretty tame one.Re the second one, yes I can see the argument for going near post but you have to hit the target from there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
westcoastcanary 173 Posted October 26, 2017 [quote user="king canary"]He had another shot in the first half where he broke forward and hit a pretty tame one.Re the second one, yes I can see the argument for going near post but you have to hit the target from there.[/quote] You have to hit the target to score, but saying as you do here that "you have to hit the target" is suggesting that ''Arry Rednapp''s Mum would have put the ball in the net from there! That''s exactly the sort of perception that the new stats for xG values is designed to evaluate; it''s unfortunate they aren''t being published more widely post-match. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
king canary 7,455 Posted October 26, 2017 No, that isn''t the same thing. I''m not some ludite and I understand xG as a stat. I also understand that a shot on target isn''t necessarily a better effort that one on target- as evidenced by the first half v Ipswich. We had more shots on targets, they looked more threatening.However that was a poor finish from Vrancic because he dragged it a decent way wide from about 10 yards out, having had time to control the ball and set himself. It wasn''t dreadful but it wasn''t a good attempt. From there I''d expect him to get it on target. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wcorkcanary 4,315 Posted October 26, 2017 [quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]Vrancic would do better if played in a deeper role - which is where he has nearly always played in his career. Unfortunately for him Trybull and Tettey/Reed are played there to provide a more solid base to the midfield. Would be interesting to see him played alongside Trybull in some home games where there may be less emphasis on Norwich to defend, and he would be able to create a few more chances than Norwich are currently creating.[/quote]Maybe a midfield 3 of Vrancic Trybull and Tettey/Reed would be solid and creative. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wcorkcanary 4,315 Posted October 26, 2017 With Vrancic being the main receiver/distributor once the ball is won in midfield, he has a great eye for a first time killer pass. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
king canary 7,455 Posted October 26, 2017 But to do that you''d have to sacrifice Maddison, which would be madness on current form. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lake district canary 4,520 Posted October 26, 2017 [quote user="king canary"]But to do that you''d have to sacrifice Maddison, which would be madness on current form.[/quote]I''ve said this before, but if you have the Christmas Tree 4321 formation with Vrancic in the middle of the 3, you could still have Maddison and Pritchard as the two AM''s. You could think of it more s a 42121 too. Something like - GunnPinto Zuimmermann Klose Husband Tettey Trybull Vrancic Maddison Pritchard OliveiraIt might look short of width, but then as Parma has stated so often, width and wing play is over rated - and anyway, Maddison and Pritchard are quite capable of playing wider when needed to in a match. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
king canary 7,455 Posted October 27, 2017 But why move your best performing attacking player to fit someone else in? Vrancic is decent but he''s not good enough to need forcing into the team.Also while wing play can be overrated a set up like that looks really easy to defend against. Everything funnels into the middle so just crowd that area and ask us to play through them. I think you can have two of Maddison/Pritchard/Vrancic/Wes in this attacking midfield 3 but you need someone to at least stretch the play a bit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lessingham Canary 99 Posted October 27, 2017 @King CanaryI think you can have two of Maddison/Pritchard/Vrancic/Wes in this attacking midfield 3 but you need someone to at least stretch the play a bit.Personally i want to see more of Wildschut, with Maddison / Wes or Pritchard, Yanic brings power and pace but seems to be very much a confidence player and with a decent run will score more as well, IMO, Vrancic can still offer more on a deeper role but would have to be at the expense of Reed, in certain games. We are certainly rich in talent in both DM/ AM which is a nice position to be in. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fr. Chewy Louie 137 Posted October 27, 2017 LDC, that looks like a lot of ball players with no-one to play the ball to. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
king canary 7,455 Posted October 27, 2017 @LCI quite like Yanic but he is so one dimensional- his crossing is some of the worst I''ve seen. Murphy was excellent against Arsenal so hopefully we''ll see more of him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hoola Han Solo 448 Posted October 27, 2017 Once Pritchard is back, he along with Maddison and the Wessiah will mean Vrancic will struggle to get in. He’s not up to their standard and we shouldn’t be creating pathetic Christmas tree formations to shoe horn a lesser player in.He’s not a bad player, but he is just so half paced. Got a decent ball on him but to get this attribute out of him you’d ideally play him deeper alongside a ball winner, and again there’s more effective players we could put there. Long term I don’t think he’s ideally suited for this country or our system. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lake district canary 4,520 Posted October 27, 2017 [quote user="Fr. Chewy Louie"]LDC, that looks like a lot of ball players with no-one to play the ball to.[/quote]On the contrary, the two of Maddison and Pritchard are quite likely to be able to play each other in on goal as well as whoever the striker is. There is no substitute for skill and speed of thought - even more important than downright pace imo - and those two have skill in abundance. Wes is in the mix too of course, but the midfield play combined with goal threat from Maddison and Pritchard is mouthwatering in prospect. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fr. Chewy Louie 137 Posted October 27, 2017 From my experience playing as a passing midfielder (albeit at a MUCH lower level), you need runners off the ball to make your job easy, and to make you look good.I can see a lot of pretty passing in your line-up, but I can see a lot of it being in front of the opposition defence with no-one to burst in behind.Not saying they wouldn''t get in at all, but it risks getting congested and predictable.In my opinion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
king canary 7,455 Posted October 27, 2017 @LDCI agree with that but I don''t see the need to force Vrancic into it too. The problem is those three all want to occupy the same space and can get in each others way. It has been a key issue for Everton this year, trying to force three natural ''number 10''s'' in Rooney, Klassen and Sigurdsson into one team that negatively impacts all of their performances and the general team structure too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coq au vin 0 Posted October 27, 2017 I saw Vrancic run for a tackle the other day at least twice and I nearly fell over. A luxury player that doesn''t work so well in the Championship. Like many have said already, when you have Maddison, Pritch and Wes in form where does Vran fit in? Moreover, especially when we could do with more width from a Murphy or a Wildschutt. The conundrum that continues. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites