Worst refereeing performance ever?

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="JF"]He was in front of both defenders with a clear path ahead to goal. The player that bought him down was Arsenal’s last man. If he had made it to the goal from that situation is irrelevant as it wasn’t allowed to play out. He may be faster in a sprint than the so called covering arsenal player who was already behind play, the arsenal player may have caught up, Oliviera may have tripped over his laces, who knows? But Oliviera was ahead of all play with only the keeper between himself and the goal when he was fouled. Red card[/quote]

This ^^^  100%. 

 

[JF 694]

In fact baldy I suggest it is you that watches the replay, you will see Oliviera outpacing both players and the so called covering arsenal player is 4 yards behind play when the foul is committed and is labouring back. He was never catching Oliviera

[Year of the tiger 54]

[quote user="The Great Mass Debater"][quote user="splutcho"]I think this is the first time in all my years watching football that I''ve ever genuinely believed the referee made the decision to cheat. I don''t know if it benefits the sponsors to keep Arsenal in the competition or what, but that went far beyond incompetence. Robbed our lads of their moments tonight. Shame on him.[/quote]

Dont you remember this happening at Arsenal before? Arsenal dead and buried, no ideas, arguing amongst themselves, Bassong and Turner immense. Then the referee stepped in. I cant remember who the official was but that was the clearest example of the referee changing a game by giving a mystifying penalty out of the blue to save them[/quote]

Referee Mike Jones, penalty given by linesman Richard West

[Baldyboy 0]

And you can categorically state he wasn’t catching Oliveira can you? No, you can’t as you don’t know the speed or anything else to do with how it would pan out other than with your yellow and green crystal balls!

All those of you who are unhappy with the standard of refereeing have no doubt enrolled on the next FA Refs course with Norfolk FA?

It’s easy to sit and criticise but how many people actually realise what it is like to referee? And also to do it impartially too?

As I said, who would have been happy with our defender being sent off if the roles were reversed?

I’m sure at some point this season we will have the same incident with one of our defenders involved, so no doubt you will all be happy if that said defender gets sent off as according to all the keyboard refs that’s what should happen!

[Hissing Sid 154]

Instead of asking would you be happy with a red card if the roles were reversed, ask what the ref would have done.

Having witnessed the referees "performance" first hand last night, I''m 100% certain that, had it been Zimmermann on Giroud 30yds out with Klose 5yds behind, Mr Madeley would have pulled out the red card before he''d even blown the whistle.

And that was just one incident. Wilshere could/should have walked on a couple of occasions, Iwobi actually threw Harrison Reed to the floor, the penalty shout for Husband...

Pretty much the only contentious decision he got right was the disputed corner for the winning goal.

[Crabbycanary3 994]

Baldyboy. I have been a Referee (albeit in Rugby) and I have also been a Referee''s Assessor, so have a very good understanding, and plenty of empathy, with Refs.

What I would suggest is that Football Refs, at the ''top'' level, are too robotic, and not allowed to use common sense, alongside the laws. They are too swayed by other factors. One of which, I would suggest, is progression in the game, and it controls too much of their thinking. Rugby refs, are more akin too Collina (remember him?) but with man management skills,

You cannot use the argument, that the defender, may have outpaced Oliveira. There is no doubt, that had play continued, NO would have had the opportunity, to get a shot off, with just the Keeper in front of him. Red card.

If the tables were turned, then absolutely, would I have accepted the card.

[snake-eyes 13]

The foul was a sure red card. If any of our players had committed the foul in reverse I could not have argued against a red card. The fouls is not even 30 yards out. He is a yard short of being level with the start of the D. Three or four paces and it would have been a penalty. How far out is too far for a red card? 22 Yard, 25 Yards, 30 yards?

It is irrelevant as to who is ''Covering'' and whether they are quick enough to get back. That is a guess.

The fact of the matter is that Oliviera was clear on goal, with only the goalkeeper between him and the goal, therefore he was denied a goalscoring opportunity. Red Card. There can not be any other interpretation of the rule. But obviously in this case the ref felt differently.

Oh and just for the record I was a qualified referee. I do appreciate how hard it is, but the two big decisions Madley had, he got appallingly wrong. No excuse no matter what level it its at.

[Crabbycanary3 994]

The Ref, gave himself no thinking, or consulting, time, to discuss with his Lino. That could have helped him for a start.

[Canary Wundaboy 1,359]

At the game, I thought the pull back was a yellow. Watching the replay, it''s a red. 

Definite pen also.

Haven''t seen any replay of the tackling but from being there last night I definitely thought Wilshere was lucky not to get a 2nd yellow.

[Year of the tiger 54]

One thing you cannot take into account Baldy is the speed of the player. It is an unknown. Or is the ref going to look &say if in a game the trailing player is Kyle Walker , fast, it isn''t a red whereas if it''s Timm Klose, slow,it is.

[Jim Smith 2,317]

Baldy - if roles were reversed yes I would have expected our defender to be sent off because it was blatantly denying a clear goalscoring opportunity. I''m sorry you cannot base a decision on the fact that the defender might possibly have made up a 4 yard deficit when they had already been outpaced and oliveira was only about 35 yards from goal.

[Jim Smith 2,317]

[quote user="The Great Mass Debater"][quote user="splutcho"]I think this is the first time in all my years watching football that I''ve ever genuinely believed the referee made the decision to cheat. I don''t know if it benefits the sponsors to keep Arsenal in the competition or what, but that went far beyond incompetence. Robbed our lads of their moments tonight. Shame on him.[/quote]

Dont you remember this happening at Arsenal before? Arsenal dead and buried, no ideas, arguing amongst themselves, Bassong and Turner immense. Then the referee stepped in. I cant remember who the official was but that was the clearest example of the referee changing a game by giving a mystifying penalty out of the blue to save them[/quote]

Its going back a bit further but we also suffered at the hands of a horrendous decision when Hucks (I think) was taken out by Lauren at Carrow Road when he was the last man. Admittedly that was much closer to the half way line but Hucks would have also been 1 on 1 with the keeper. remember it vividly, I just thought at the time it was the most blatant example of big team bias.

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

On a positive note; I was surprised at Nelson''s turn of pace following that clever flick.

But then again I was delighted to see Murphy, Pinto and Wildschut show Arsenal clean pairs of heels on a few occasions. We clearly have some pace in the team which is essential.

[CJ 0]

As a qualified referee myself I am ashamed to say a typical weak performance by a referee who clearly was intimidated by his surroundings.

To get one big decision wrong is forgiveable but to then go on and ignore a blatant penalty is not!

As a referee I am constantly being told on big decisions do not rush to give your decision. You could see the referee immediately reach for yellow as he blew! He therefore decided it was a foul it does not matter if accidental or not the only question was whether a clear goal scoring opportunity. Replays show NO is clearly in control of the ball and beyond last defender end of. Only after he had been tripped up did the other defender catch up in line with NO. You can not take into account the relative sprint speeds of players you have to freeze frame the moment contact made.

As for the penalty decision there is nothing to debate as the picture on Pink Un web site shows , Arsenal defender behind player and leaning into back!

What I hate about the FA is neither the Officials or the FA have to publically defend such decisions and that considering how much they rely on supporters is plain wrong!

[PurpleCanary 5,557]

I''ve only just seen the footage. It should have been a red card, although you can argue there is a fraction of doubt. The non-award of the penalty was just absurd. Under no viewing of that is that not as a clearcut a penalty as you will see.As to bias, which there undoubtedly is in effect, I don''t believe it is because the referees aim to favour the big clubs, but they are scared stiff of getting it wrong against them, so err on the side of ultra-caution.One former top referee whose name escapes me who now acts as an expert admitted that if there was a big decision against Man Utd - a penalty or a sending off - he would immediately think what Ferguson''s explosive reaction would be if he got it wrong. Well of course if that is your first thought then the chances are you will chicken out of it. And from memory, after Ruel Fox scored a penalty for us just before we played Inter, Man Utd then had only one penalty in the league (missed...) given against them at Old Trafford  in 10 years.If the situation had been reversed and the referee had not given Arsenal that penalty late in extra-time when they were losing 2-1 Wenger would still be complaining about it, and press coverage would have been  much greater, with the referee being criticised by all and sundry. As it was Norwich City the injustice got mentioned in the reports (although according to The Sun the foul was on Hoolahan, there was mininal contact, and it would have been a travesty if a penalty had been awarded...) but nothing more was made of it. No public disgrace for the referee.

[Guest]

Rugby refs, are more akin too Collina (remember him?) but with man management skills,

The last two we have had at Camborne definitely didn''t have man management skills Crabby.

Just to dismiss the Captain''s request for definitions of a high tackle or to ask why players aren''t supporting their own weight at rucks just winds players up, who then take matters into their own hands and end up with yellow cards themselves.

[Rock The Boat 1,330]

I ran into Cameron Jerome last night and after I offered my commiserations for being cheated out of a result, he said that the Arsenal players admitted to him that it should have been a red card and a penalty.

The least we can do now is give our guys an amazing reception at Carrow Road on Saturday.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="Rock The Boat"]I ran into Cameron Jerome last night and after I offered my commiserations for being cheated out of a result, he said that the Arsenal players admitted to him that it should have been a red card and a penalty.

The least we can do now is give our guys an amazing reception at Carrow Road on Saturday.[/quote]

The lack of moral courage from officials is rife, consciously or sub-consciously favouring the home teams or the bigger clubs against the less fashionable clubs.   I guess some referees are good, but some just want an easy ride - and some of them are just useless.  However, Tuesday''s match should have a positive effect so Saturday should be a humdinger.

[Feedthewolf 4,846]

I think we all accept the corner decision was correct. Regarding the penalty, irrespective of ''how much contact'', the rules state that if a player makes contact with an opponent and not with the ball when attempting a tackle it''s a direct free kick, unless the contact is shoulder to shoulder (which it clearly wasn''t as Husband was ahead of his man). I can almost guarantee that if that situation had occurred in reverse when we were 1-0 up, he would''ve given the penalty to Arsenal – and I say that as a qualified referee.As for the red card, at the match it appeared as if there was a covering defender, but I haven''t yet seen a replay of that incident. All I would say, is that refs want to keep matches 11v11 where possible, and the fact a covering defender was chasing back may have resulted in the ref trying to avoid sending a player off, which I think is fair enough in general. Wilshere should definitely have gone for two yellows, though, and so should Trybull right at the end.The most annoying thing of all was the endless 50-50s going in Arsenal''s favour – just ridiculous how so many of those could have been ''objectively'' given Arsenal''s way. Whoever talked about the Asian company sponsoring the competition is probably onto something, even though it could never be proven – ''return on investment''. Most of the refs who get demoted or ''rested'' have p*ssed off one of the top managers, Simon Hooper being the obvious exception for his abysmal performance in the Palace match (should never have been given the fixture in the first place, as new PL refs should be given ''meaningless'' end-of-season games with nothing riding on them for experience).

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"]I''ve only just seen the footage. It should have been a red card, although you can argue there is a fraction of doubt. The non-award of the penalty was just absurd. Under no viewing of that is that not as a clearcut a penalty as you will see.

As to bias, which there undoubtedly is in effect, I don''t believe it is because the referees aim to favour the big clubs, but they are scared stiff of getting it wrong against them, so err on the side of ultra-caution.

One former top referee whose name escapes me who now acts as an expert admitted that if there was a big decision against Man Utd - a penalty or a sending off - he would immediately think what Ferguson''s explosive reaction would be if he got it wrong. Well of course if that is your first thought then the chances are you will chicken out of it. And from memory, after Ruel Fox scored a penalty for us just before we played Inter, Man Utd then had only one penalty in the league (missed...) given against them at Old Trafford  in 10 years.

If the situation had been reversed and the referee had not given Arsenal that penalty late in extra-time when they were losing 2-1 Wenger would still be complaining about it, and press coverage would have been  much greater, with the referee being criticised by all and sundry. As it was Norwich City the injustice got mentioned in the reports (although according to The Sun the foul was on Hoolahan, there was mininal contact, and it would have been a travesty if a penalty had been awarded...) but nothing more was made of it. No public disgrace for the referee.
[/quote]

I think this sums it up Purple.  If they had lost after going down to 10 men, Wenger would have complained endlessly about it and I imagine that was in the back of the ref''s mind.  And as another poster has pointed out, he should have consulted his lino and taken time to think rather than going straight for the yellow card, and made the correct and brave decision to send of a player when that is clearly what the rules require.

 

To answer the earlier post, would I have been happy with a City player being sent off in the opposite situation is obviously a daft way to put it because I''d never be happy, but certainly I would have expected it to happen and (like the Marley Watkins sending off against Reading) accepted that''s what (should) happen in that situation.

[Jim Smith 2,317]

Oh look more fun for the conspiracy theorists amongst us.

Next round draw unable to be shown live due to technical problems. Pre-recorded video is eventually released and guess which 4 teams all avoided each other.........

[Crabbycanary3 994]

quote keelansgrandad"]Rugby refs, are more akin too Collina (remember him?) but with man management skills,

The last two we have had at Camborne definitely didn''t have man management skills Crabby.

Just to dismiss the Captain''s request for definitions of a high tackle or to ask why players aren''t supporting their own weight at rucks just winds players up, who then take matters into their own hands and end up with yellow cards themselves.[/quote

Oh dear KG, there''s always one (or two!) Hopefully they will be wired up (?) and then advised, by the Assessor. I was always conscious of man managing players, and the game itself, a vital ''skill'' for the sport.

[Horse Renoir 1]

Andy Madely is just an incompetent coward riding off of the back of his brothers reputation. His appointment to Tuesday''s game was a FL decision but his rise is symptomatic of the old boys culture at the FA. Poor ref but not in my 5 worst that I can remember from recent times.

The linesman in our 3-3 draw away at the Emirates in 2012 was legitimately corrupt. As was Eddie Ilderton v Tranmere. There is simply no other explanation for how those two matches played out.

Simon Hooper is a real life Homer Simpson. Chris Foy at the Stadium of Light in 2012 (I think, the 1-1 draw with Bunn sent off) was shocking and gave literally every 50 50 their way, I''d say his performance was definitely worse than AM''s the other night. Well actually, I think Madely gave a bad performance and Foy legitimately wanted Sunderland to win but whatever.

Those spring to mind as worse than Tuesday night. Can anyone else remember any other shocking games we were cheated out of? I''m sure there''s more

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

Imo the penalty was a yes if you''re Norwich and a ''he made a meal of it'' if you''re not. Fifty fifty.The Elneny incident was not a red, there is no such rule as last man , whether or not a covering defender is nearby. It is, whether ot not , by fouling, a player denies an opponent a clear scoring opportunity. He didnt, it was a yellow. A few yards further up the pitch, and it would have been red,yeah, for sure, 100%.

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

Guys.

[FenwayFrank 2,459]

I’d forgotten about that Tranmere match, thanks for reminding me....

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

Yes I''d forgotten the Tranmere one.  We''ve definitely had quite a few bad ref performances at Ars*nal over the years.  But I still think this week''s is the worst of them, because the Oliveira foul was such a clear goal-scoring opportunity and similarly the penalty was such a clear foul.  Disgraceful.

[Fr. Chewy Louie 137]

Have to admit I don''t know what referees have been instructed this season on interpretation of goal-scoring opportunities etc, but I reckon Nelson would have needed one more touch then had a clear shot.

Can''t believe anyone would even question the penalty one, nailed on (both at the time and on replays).

[king canary 7,604]

Oh god that Sunderland game- ignored the most obvious handball by Danny Rose, sent Bunn off, gave them a soft penalty. All on TV.

[? 20]

The Tranmere game was just incredible. I couldn''t believe what i was watching.

There''s a home game against Bradford, late 90s or early 00s, where we lost 4-1 that sticks in my mind for dreadful officiating. If i remember correctly, we had a man sent off for very little, 2 penalties given against us for blatant dives, 2 goals ruled out for offside when they clearly(!) weren''t, and a stonewall penalty not given. Carrow Road was on the brink of a riot.

Or maybe my memory fails me!