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lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel)

Gary Rowetts comments...

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We’re vunerable to pace too.

Away from home we sit deep, so pace isn’t an issue. But as many have pointed out, at home we try to press higher and more susceptible to being hurt by pace.

It’s pretty apparent we have a team set up to allow teams possession while we stay nice and compact and counter with effective football. At home we ditch this tactic, firstly because we’re at home and the belief is we should always be on the front foot, and secondly teams sit back and make it hard not to venture forward and look like we’re domontating.

Possibly Wolves may be a better game for us. They’ll probably come and play more attacking and enable us to naturally adopt our away style. But will this be acceptable to the home crowd??

It’s difficult. We have one style, and that’s the problem. This is where I feel we miss a Johnny Howson type in midfield who can play many different ways.

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Been saying it all season that we don’t move the ball quickly enough when attacking, it takes 3 or 4 passes instead of 1 to get anywhere by which time the opposition has got its shape back.

People say we have pace in the side but when do we use it? Rarely do we attack with any pace and if we do we just don’t get enough bodies forward to support our lone striker.

I fear we could get picked off quite easily on Tuesday by Wolves who have pace in abundance

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I dont think Johnny Howson is really the issue here, probably reinforced by taking a look at boro.

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So did Trybull, and has been since hes been in the team. Including against Boro, where Howson was completely anonymous and was disposessed a couple of times by Trybull when he really shouldn''t have been.

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[quote user="hogesar"]So did Trybull, and has been since hes been in the team. Including against Boro, where Howson was completely anonymous and was disposessed a couple of times by Trybull when he really shouldn''t have been.[/quote]

Different players and completely irrelevant. Nobody is comparing Trybull and Howson. The point for mentioning Howson is that we have no one else like him, and we’d probaly benefit from his style of play in games such as yesterday.

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I''d argue Tettey can somewhat fulfill that role- he likes to carry the ball and run from deeper positions, whereas Reed and Trybull are very similar when playing together.

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[quote user="king canary"]I''d argue Tettey can somewhat fulfill that role- he likes to carry the ball and run from deeper positions, whereas Reed and Trybull are very similar when playing together.[/quote]
Yep, Tettey is a little less disciplined but at home in this league with another holding midfielder that''s not exactly a bad thing - Trybull nor Reed like to run beyond their opposing midfielder whereas Tettey will break forward when he see''s an opportunity.

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@hoegsar

Yes, completely agree. Trybull and Reed are very similar players who both like to break up play and move the ball on. Neither of them want to bomb forward with or without the ball.

I''d be interested to know what Godfrey is like in this respect- apparently he''s been excellent at Shrewsbury but I wonder if he''s another in the Reed/Trybull style.

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Much of this debate is serving to underline just how much we are suffering from the absence of Pritchard. In his absence, what combination of players provides the best available forward foursome? Put like that, there is, to my mind, a big question mark over playing both Maddison and Hoolahan. And given Pritchard''s absence, I rather agree with lincoln that Howson would be included in any alternative forward four.

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Both Hoolahan & Maddison want top drop off & pick up the ball on the edge of the box.

For example, thats how Maddison created his goal against Ipswich. The difference is at home is that the little of pocket of space on the edge of the box hes is looking for just does not exist as teams defend in greater numbers - we are looking for another midfielder to make the run to the edge of the 6 yard box and that is just not happening.

This then means we have no choice but to play the ball across the edge of the box & eventually it gets snuffed out.

It seems at the minute we have 2 types of midfielder - ''sitters'' and ''no 10s'' when really we need a conventional midfielder who isn''t sacred to make that run into the box. Johnson did it, Howson did it. Now when we turn the ball over there seems to be a big gap in the middle sometimes as the forward 3 have pushed on and the sitters have stayed back, allowing teams to bring it out with relative ease

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[Y] Rogue Baboon. You sum it up well. At the risk of incurring similar ridicule to LDC (with his suggestion that Graham Dorrans could do a job on the left side of midfield), what about putting Husband in at left full back and playing Stiepermann at CAM (which is where he has played most of his career as far as I can see)?

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[quote user="king canary"]@westcoast

Tgen where do you play Maddison?[/quote]
My suggested "forward four" would be e.g. Murphy, Maddison (or Hoolahan), and Stiepermann, plus a forward player, with Stiepermann getting forward into the box more than either Hoolahan or Maddison currently manage and providing more height and strength in there if the forward player pulls wide. Whichever of Maddison or Hoolahan is selected would play much as Maddison does now, i.e. positionally fluidly, with Murphy providing width. Already our attacking play is asymmetric, weighted towards one side or the other (usually the left when Murphy is on, the right when Wildschut replaces him), and that wouldn''t change. 

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I didn''t see Saturday''s game so will not comment about decisions etc but just want to say that however well our defensive set up works there will be occasions when it breaks down or a mistake or two is made.

Our inability to score too many at the other end will come back and bite us on such occasions, I think the Arsenal game perfectly illustrated that.

DF has to find a way of keeping as solid and mistake free at the back as he can but manage to get at least one more player further forward particularly at home. He is sticking rather than twisting at times.

We do desperately need another striker although playing one up every game won''t make too much difference as long as we remain injury free.

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Villa paid £12million for Hogan, cant see them wanting to make a big loss & we simply cannot afford to pay that much.

As for loaning him, Villa simply wouldn''t loan direct to a playoff rival in my opinion.

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People that complain about the slow build up play should look at the first five minutes of the match against Derby.  Several minutes controlling the ball then a darting attack with an incisive pass and a run from Murphy.  I thought at the time - that is the way we want to play, but after about five minutes that kind of play disappeared - we tried to do it, but too often the attempt to switch speed into a quick attack was let down by innaccurate  passing and possession was lost, not only losing the attacking opportunity, but giving initiative to the oppososition. 

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Were you there Lakey? I was and the problem is clearly the slow build up, the opposition get the ball forward so much quicker!

It’s the same every home game, we have concentrated on sorting out the defence but now we need to sort out the attack, we are set up to counter attack which away from home is fine but at home it’s not, it doesn’t help either when Farke changes the attacking three behind Jerome every game

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@LDC

The issue is that kind of football is very difficult to play- to go from slow sideways passing to quick incisive pass and move takes a very good player and you have to be ok with it breaking down pretty regularly.

The issue for me is that two of the players this style of football would suit best (Nelson and Pritchard) are injured and it really doesn''t suit Jerome. So I think we have to be sensible and work with what we have. I''m not advocating Pulis style route one here but I think a willingness to move the ball at pace, get Wildschut/Murphy involved and removing the shackles from one of Reed or Trybull to offer some support may help.

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[quote user="Baldyboy"]Were you there Lakey? I was and the problem is clearly the slow build up, the opposition get the ball forward so much quicker!

It’s the same every home game, we have concentrated on sorting out the defence but now we need to sort out the attack, we are set up to counter attack which away from home is fine but at home it’s not, it doesn’t help either when Farke changes the attacking three behind Jerome every game[/quote]Did you actually read my post?  The point I made was that the style we need was there in the first five minutes. you were there, did you not see that?  That it failed thereafter, through poor passing - and yes, I agree, through slow build up is not rocket science.  It will take time to get the balance right, but the signs were there at the beginning of the match that the players know what they should be doing.  At the moment it is as if we know what we should do but can''t sustain it.  The whole point of the softly softly approach with possession is to switch that to attack quickly - and that means incisive accurate passing, pouncing decisively and quickly. That involves excellent passers of the ball.  We have that, but Hoolahan isn''t always reliable with it, particularly Saturday, when his passes too often went astray and we end up fannying about with the ball, with no-one able to set up attacks quickly.

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[quote user="Baldyboy"]Were you there Lakey? I was and the problem is clearly the slow build up, the opposition get the ball forward so much quicker!

It’s the same every home game, we have concentrated on sorting out the defence but now we need to sort out the attack, we are set up to counter attack which away from home is fine but at home it’s not, it doesn’t help either when Farke changes the attacking three behind Jerome every game[/quote]

That''s not the point he made though Baldy. He made the point that our first couple of attacks against Derby were very quick and then we weren''t able to replicate that. Which is what happened on Saturday. Those first 5 - 10 minutes were brilliant. The rest not so much and the issue behind that as someone pointed out is it''s incredibly difficult to either maintain that level of attack, or be able to switch incredibly quickly from our possession play to direct attack without better players.

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[quote user="Howson is now"][quote user="Baldyboy"]Were you there Lakey? I was and the problem is clearly the slow build up, the opposition get the ball forward so much quicker!

It’s the same every home game, we have concentrated on sorting out the defence but now we need to sort out the attack, we are set up to counter attack which away from home is fine but at home it’s not, it doesn’t help either when Farke changes the attacking three behind Jerome every game[/quote]

That''s not the point he made though Baldy. He made the point that our first couple of attacks against Derby were very quick and then we weren''t able to replicate that. Which is what happened on Saturday. Those first 5 - 10 minutes were brilliant. The rest not so much and the issue behind that as someone pointed out is it''s incredibly difficult to either maintain that level of attack, or be able to switch incredibly quickly from our possession play to direct attack without better players.[/quote]

[Y]

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It sounds obvious, but an early goal for us would make such a difference. Had Stiepermann scored instead of hitting the bar, or if Murphy had done better very early on, we would have been able to play the more counter-attacking game that has worked so well away from home recently.

As someone pointed out, Maddison is profiting from more space in away games and able to shoot/score from good central positions, whereas there is very little room at home.

What we have seen is that crosses into the box have resulted in chances to score at home, so I''d like to see more of that. Although that indirectly means we are more likely to lose possession if we don''t get a shot/header in. As things stand Farke seems to want his team to keep the ball for as long as possible before creating a chance through a piece of skill or by out-passing our opponent.

If Wolves come and have more possession, a more counter-attacking game might suit us better.

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It may sound obvious but it''s worth saying again and again Woodman. The first goal is always important in these tight games. Derby really didn''t look like scoring until just before halftime. The incidents you mention could and probably should have given us the first goal. It''s fine margins and on another day one of them goes in.

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As you say Nutty, these things happen but the style of football we play right now means margins are especially thin- it is very difficult to sustain a run of single goal wins as all it takes is one bit of bad luck/poor decision making and it all falls down. You can''t just create one good chance a game and rely on it going in.

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‘It''s fine margins and on another day one of them goes in.’

The problem is this is now 4 straight home games where we are waiting for one to go in. We have been well and truly figured out at home so we need to adjust - at the minute each home game is a carbon copy of the last with no changes to the style of play

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I totally accept what you''re saying Kingo and Rogue. But last season I loved the way we played at home but you guys  wouldn''t have it. Last season if we scored 2 goals at home we''d be disappointed. Kingo, I seem to remember you said something like you couldn''t understand how people could separate the home games from the away and that home and away form should be judged together. 

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