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Canarymoon

7/10 - Work-rate top drawer as always.....BUT

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It''s my first post so I''ll start with the positives :

1. Gunn is the best keeper in the league

2. Our defence is getting close to being solid although I''d like to see Hanley play Tuesday

3. Trybul is epic. Far too good for this league.

4. Maddison is superb, but shouldn''t be over relied on. Let''s handle him with care

5. Pritchard is back soon. Best CAM in league.

6. Murphy is now far more physical and effective

7. Yanic deserves to start and is looking very dangerous

8. Our wing-backs are superb.

9. Farke is instilling a culture at the club again

10. Our second best striker is top of league 1 (is that a positive?)

11. Olivera has the best goal per minutes played ratio in the league (Neg - Jerome had one of the worst and Nelson is out for a while)

There are two flaws for the 11 positives... I believe we can write off promotion unless we solve the main flaw in January! I do trust in Farke, so I believe he will make the change asap!

Flaw 1. (Main flaw)

Jerome is the definition of a donkey. He can''t make a diagonal run when we are attacking. He has also lost any ability to stay on the last defender or be on the end of a cross.

For me, Jerome having woeful movement and no ability to finish isn''t made acceptable by him closing down relentlessly. No ability... but works hard doesn''t cut it. 7/10 pffft!

We''d still be in the Premiership had we not relied on Jerome for goals. Stoke figured him out... Why can''t we!!? Get him in the stands with Russel Martin.... At least Russ can score a header.

Flaw 2.

Hoolahan looses his primary asset (playing a killer pass) when there is a donkey striker leading our line. When Wes looses this asset he then becomes a weak link and slows down play. Yes Wes has ability and yes he''s been a great servant to the club, but he''s not effective with Jerome. Wes is however miles off Pritchard or Maddison in overall ability, so we can take it as a positive that the are the now and the future of our creativity.

The facts are that Wes was bullied yesterday and lost the ball at least 20 times by my counting, two of which resulted in their goals.

I''ve always been sceptical about Wes and Tettey for the simple reason that they slow down play. Tettey seems to have been well drilled under Farke to release the ball fast, so I''m more happy with Alex this season. Fast direct breaks are key to success and we still aren''t delivering this consistently due to Wes.

IMO Wes should be used as an impact sub but only when Nelson is up top, as his movement can be utilised e.g. against Fulham. Personally however I''d stick with Maddison and Vrancic for killer/direct passing ability.

Yanic and Murphy are far better wide players and under Farke they are also far more physical/disciplined. I''d also class Watkins as a winger not a number 10 so he goes in ahead of Wes, while Maddison or Pritchard play no10.

For me our most excellent performances were against Middlesbrough, Arsenal and Sheffield Utd... "7 touch Wes" didn''t play. We were direct, we''ll organised, fast and physical.

OVERALL

The attacking basics are quite simple... 1. Get the ball down the pitch as fast and as hard as possible. 2. Get a striker who understands movement and can finish. If we can deliver those basics then we have more than enough quality to coat the core.

I''m sure many will agree with the positives and probably the main flaw. I''m aware that dissing Wes is high treason in Norfolk, but I do feel like it''s time this was said.

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Jerome is far from being a donkey. I lost interest after reading that.

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actually I can''t disagree with much of that, and believe strongly that in January we need a fast striker who makes intelligent runs all afternoon for the likes of Wes/Pritchard/Maddison, and gets in on the end of crosses. Having said that, Jerome isn''t a donkey - but has lost his edge in last 2 seasons.

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[quote user="Canarymoon"]It''s my first post so I''ll start with the positives :

1. Gunn is the best keeper in the league

2. Our defence is getting close to being solid although I''d like to see Hanley play Tuesday

3. Trybul is epic. Far too good for this league.

4. Maddison is superb, but shouldn''t be over relied on. Let''s handle him with care

5. Pritchard is back soon. Best CAM in league.

6. Murphy is now far more physical and effective

7. Yanic deserves to start and is looking very dangerous

8. Our wing-backs are superb.

9. Farke is instilling a culture at the club again

10. Our second best striker is top of league 1 (is that a positive?)

11. Olivera has the best goal per minutes played ratio in the league (Neg - Jerome had one of the worst and Nelson is out for a while)

There are two flaws for the 11 positives... I believe we can write off promotion unless we solve the main flaw in January! I do trust in Farke, so I believe he will make the change asap!

Flaw 1. (Main flaw)

Jerome is the definition of a donkey. He can''t make a diagonal run when we are attacking. He has also lost any ability to stay on the last defender or be on the end of a cross.

For me, Jerome having woeful movement and no ability to finish isn''t made acceptable by him closing down relentlessly. No ability... but works hard doesn''t cut it. 7/10 pffft!

We''d still be in the Premiership had we not relied on Jerome for goals. Stoke figured him out... Why can''t we!!? Get him in the stands with Russel Martin.... At least Russ can score a header.

Flaw 2.

Hoolahan looses his primary asset (playing a killer pass) when there is a donkey striker leading our line. When Wes looses this asset he then becomes a weak link and slows down play. Yes Wes has ability and yes he''s been a great servant to the club, but he''s not effective with Jerome. Wes is however miles off Pritchard or Maddison in overall ability, so we can take it as a positive that the are the now and the future of our creativity.

The facts are that Wes was bullied yesterday and lost the ball at least 20 times by my counting, two of which resulted in their goals.

I''ve always been sceptical about Wes and Tettey for the simple reason that they slow down play. Tettey seems to have been well drilled under Farke to release the ball fast, so I''m more happy with Alex this season. Fast direct breaks are key to success and we still aren''t delivering this consistently due to Wes.

IMO Wes should be used as an impact sub but only when Nelson is up top, as his movement can be utilised e.g. against Fulham. Personally however I''d stick with Maddison and Vrancic for killer/direct passing ability.

Yanic and Murphy are far better wide players and under Farke they are also far more physical/disciplined. I''d also class Watkins as a winger not a number 10 so he goes in ahead of Wes, while Maddison or Pritchard play no10.

For me our most excellent performances were against Middlesbrough, Arsenal and Sheffield Utd... "7 touch Wes" didn''t play. We were direct, we''ll organised, fast and physical.

OVERALL

The attacking basics are quite simple... 1. Get the ball down the pitch as fast and as hard as possible. 2. Get a striker who understands movement and can finish. If we can deliver those basics then we have more than enough quality to coat the core.

I''m sure many will agree with the positives and probably the main flaw. I''m aware that dissing Wes is high treason in Norfolk, but I do feel like it''s time this was said.[/quote]

You are in dreamland! Gunn is not the best keeper in this division, Pritchard is not the best CAM in this division, Murphy is not physical enough wimps out of too many challenges, we do not play with wing backs they are full backs, if Trybull is too good for this league why is he not at a higher level?

Love how positive you are but you need to get realistic and accept we aren’t as good as you believe because as they say the table doesn’t lie does it?

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"The attacking basics are quite simple... 1. Get the ball down the pitch as fast and as hard as possible. 2. Get a striker who understands movement and can finish. If we can deliver those basics then we have more than enough quality to coat the core. "

Oh goodness, someone with your technical nous and ability need to get on the phone to Webber and Farke and let them know as they clearly have no idea!

Jerome made many decent runs yesterday, including diagonal/CB splitting in the first half. When Maddison et al. seemed to decide they wanted the glory, rather than lay him in, he started dropping deep to actually get involved with play, at the expense of being on the shoulder of defenders.

Wes was abysmal yesterday too, he was struggling to find teammates with 5 yard passes, let alone 25/30.

Everyone know what Jerome is about; he''s not a natural finisher, but he works hard, and *will* score goals given chances. He also manages 40 games a season, unlike Nelson.

Simple question; how many good chances has Jerome been provided with and has squandered in the last few games? I can barely remember any. You can lay the blame for this squarely at his door if you like, but I think it is more the lack of quality, precision football in the final third.

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Baldyboy, the table doesn''t lie but that''s primarily because we''ve mixed and matched the team around. IMO we''d be further up had we played wildshudt over Wes and Nelson had more game time.

The facts are Nelson has the best minutes per goal ratio in the league and Jerome has one of the worst.... if you give him chances he certainly won''t take many of them. My insight over the years is he''d be doing well to finish 1/7. I stand by my comments about the class of Gunn, Trybuk and Pritchard... They are certainly a class above the core crop we had under the days of Neil / Adams / Lambert. Murphy is still lightweight but he certainly looks more powerful under Farke, who has also given Yanic confidence and drive. Overall, as I say it is very positive, but it''s time to cast out the final pieces of the stale legacy. The future is Farkein bright!

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A bit harsh on Jerome there, but one goal in ten league appearances says it all really.

How much longer can we start a game with a non-striking striker before we have to give up all hopes of a play-off place this season?

I believe that Waghorn at Ipswich has got 6/7 already this season. He cost peanuts and is playing in front of a notoriously unproductive and guileless midfield.

Something is wrong here, whether it''s tactics, Jerome losing that edge or just bad luck but it goes on and on with appalling regularity.

It has almost seemed at times that goals are as hard come by and precious as they were under the Hoots against Premier League defenders a few seasons ago, especially at the fortress that was Carrow Road.

Let''s hope that we can maintain some good form until Cameron is relieved of his duties come the next window.

We all know what the obvious need is the and I''m sure the "team" at Carrow road are working on it already.

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Calling Jerome a donkey is very harsh but as Broadstairs says we can''t continue with a striker that not only isn''t scoring but doesn''t even look like scoring.

Wes is a squad player now- Maddison has made that number 10 role his own so Wes now has to fit around that. With Pritchard back I''d expect to see him less and less this season.

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Cameron Jerome has scored once every 473 Minutes = donkey

As I say this isn''t helped by Wes slowing down play by taking 8 touches and passing sideways and backwards.

If Jerome were to be religiously on the last defender and we were to utilise our wingers to get early balls into the box and behind the defence then Cam would have more opportunities, however he''s then got to finish them... for me Cameron struggles to finish his dinner so I''m doubtful we will ever see him hit a floury.

Watkins is not a striker so I''d be tempted to hand Fonkeu a game. Naysmith will also hopefully give us some value this side of Xmas. Yanic and Maddison are without doubt our main sources if danger while Nelson is out so we should be building our play around them.

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It’s not as simple to say Jerome doesn’t score enough though is it?

He must be so frustrated because the way we play currently is not helping him one jot, as he needs runners and chances to be created but they are few and far between!

To say Oliveira would be better is wrong too, he won’t score many in this set up either, people seem to forget that 2 of his 5 goals have actually come when he’s come on as a sub and been chasing the game!

The number of times he’s started he has actually missed far more chances than Jerome because he just seems to shoot as soon as he can irrespective of whether others are better placed or not.

It’s not the strikers at all it’s the system going forward that is letting us down and it needs to be addressed by Farke ASAP otherwise we will not trouble the top 6 at all with the way we currently play at home

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Unfortunately the stats prove you wrong Baldyboy.

Olivera scores every 89 mins (best in the league)

Jerome scores every 473 (one of worst strikers in league)

Norwich play the same formation with either. Norwich are just more effective without Jerome. The stats were much the same when it was a choice between Jerome and other strikers.

Jerome''s lack of movement, finishing and positional discipline also affects the way others around him perform. As I say, Wes certainly is pretty ineffective with Jerome.

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Yeah, statistically Jerome is much worse at chance conversion than Nelson and it isn''t even close. Nelson has got 45% of his shots on target this season while Jerome is at 22% according to Squawka. Nelson has taken on more shots (30 to 21) in far less time on the pitch but I''m not sure having a shot shy striker leading the line is really a good thing. And if Nelson is getting more shots away and a much higher percentage are on target it would suggest he''s getting into better positions than Jerome.

I can see the argument that the system doesn''t make it easy for strikers but I think it works much better for Nelson than it does Jerome.

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Stats are the way forward.

Mbokani, Hooper and Grabban all had 50% or higher shot accuracy for us. Even Bamford had higher shot accuracy that Jerome has had this season, while it must be noted his movement was far superior.

I''d rather have the ginger pele upfront for us! (Gary D)

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Maybe you ought to look at shots to conversion rate also Canarymoon!

Against Burton Olivera had about 6 shots that were awful but hey you can twist statistics anyway you wish.

Maybe if Olivera got himself fitter then things would pick up, but I highly doubt it because as I say it’s the system that matters as much as the personnel!

Scoring goals is a responsibility of the whole squad and we have only scored more than one goal on two occasions in the League all season, which suggests to me it is about the way we play more than the personnel

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[quote user="Canarymoon"]Stats are the way forward.

Mbokani, Hooper and Grabban all had 50% or higher shot accuracy for us. Even Bamford had higher shot accuracy that Jerome has had this season, while it must be noted his movement was far superior.

I''d rather have the ginger pele upfront for us! (Gary D)[/quote]

Interesting that you mention Bamford isn’t it, how many goals did he score for us? The grand total of NONE!

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It isn''t twisting stats though Baldy- Nelson has scored a goal every 89 minutes of playing time this season- nobody with 5 or more goals has a better time per goal. So his chance conversion rate must be pretty damn high if, like you suggest, the system means we''re not creating many chances.

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It would be interesting to compare the conversion to chances between the two though, on Saturday Jerome had one chance which he created himself, a shot that was from distance.

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What do you mean by conversion to chances?

This season it is clear that Oliveria''s would be much higher- he''s scored 5 goals to Jerome''s 1 so for it to not be Nelson would have to have taken 5 times as many shots which he hasn''t.

According to Squawka Jerome has a chance conversion rate of about 6%, while Nelson is at about 22%, which I guess is pretty decent.

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The stats just don''t lie.

By the sounds of the press conference, today it''s likely that Nelson will be back in perfect shape by the end of the month, along with Pritchard and Naysmith so we''ll be laughing. Pritchard and Naysmith will also make a bit different as Pritchard will keep out "7 touch Wes" and Naysmith will enable Maddison to be under less pressure.

We want fast, direct, scary attacks. Wes and Jerome just aren''t delivering these. Things must change or we''ll be mid-table in January.

Oliveria''s movement and positioning are undoubtedly far superior to Jerome. Olivera also attracts more creative passing from the other guys who are supplying him, along with creating his own chances.

If you know that there''s a donkey on the end of your passes then you probably don''t get the ball in and check back a bit. There is a lack of confidence in Jerome which spreads through the team, especially at home where we push on more and have higher possession...Away from home we play on the break so things are obviously less static so Cameron''s lack of ability doesn''t affect us so much.

The stats suggest that there are over 40 strikers in the division who are better and more effective than Jerome... That''s not what a promotion hunting team should lead the line with.

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Jerome has completely lost any confidence, and most of the ability, that he had two or three years ago.Scuffs the vast majority of good shooting opportunities, rarely gets a full forehead to a header and always seems to take the wrong option on a pass.Yes he can run about with the best of them but do we really want a striker who is only effective in areas of the pitch that he can''t score from.Needs shipping out & replacing in January as we need to get in 2 decent strikers if we have serious ambitions of PL football.Feel confident that our "on the ball management team" will be thinking the same and will have already identified two or three options.

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[quote user="Canarymoon"]The stats just don''t lie.

By the sounds of the press conference, today it''s likely that Nelson will be back in perfect shape by the end of the month, along with Pritchard and Naysmith so we''ll be laughing. Pritchard and Naysmith will also make a bit different as Pritchard will keep out "7 touch Wes" and Naysmith will enable Maddison to be under less pressure.

We want fast, direct, scary attacks. Wes and Jerome just aren''t delivering these. Things must change or we''ll be mid-table in January.

Oliveria''s movement and positioning are undoubtedly far superior to Jerome. Olivera also attracts more creative passing from the other guys who are supplying him, along with creating his own chances.

If you know that there''s a donkey on the end of your passes then you probably don''t get the ball in and check back a bit. There is a lack of confidence in Jerome which spreads through the team, especially at home where we push on more and have higher possession...Away from home we play on the break so things are obviously less static so Cameron''s lack of ability doesn''t affect us so much.

The stats suggest that there are over 40 strikers in the division who are better and more effective than Jerome... That''s not what a promotion hunting team should lead the line with.[/quote]

You really are deluded if you think as soon as Pritchard comes back we will have fast scary tactics!

Why do we not have them without him? It’s absolutely nothing to do with personnel, it’s the way we are set up that stifles us but hey keep slating our ONE fit striker who has had a tremendous workload lately with barely a break.

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Oh and by the way Canarymoon, you still haven’t said how Bamford who scored no goals at all for us was better than Jerome when you moan that Jerome doesn’t score!

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Poor old CJ. Looks like we''ve found another scapegoat.Good managers will be ahead of the curve. Farke needs to notice that the opposition have sussed out plan B and a plan C is required. Our lack of goals can''t be totally blamed on CJ, it''s the turgid sideways passing and slow build up that give the opposition defence so much time to get organised.

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My post addessed the sideways passing as one of two flaws. Cameron''s play encourages this type of passing. Wes takes far too many touches, shimmies way to much and is more of a weak link when the striker he''s serving has next to no clever movement.

I referred to Bamfords percentage of shots on target being just above Jerome''s, which it was. I think perhaps you''ve used stats to manipulate your argument. They were both over half as effective as our other strikers. Bamfords movement is exceptionally better than "Cam the donkey" however.

We would undoubtedly play more direct and get the ball in the box and on goal faster if we played an alternative to Cam, with any of Yanic, Murphy, Pritchard, Maddison, Naysmith or Watkins in the 3 behind the attacker. It''s time to say goodbye to the last parts in the stale legacy.

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"We would undoubtedly play more direct and get the ball in the box and on goal faster if we played an alternative to Cam, with any of Yanic, Murphy, Pritchard, Maddison, Naysmith or Watkins in the 3 behind the attacker. It''s time to say goodbye to the last parts in the stale legacy."

So, given Oliveira is currently injured, I''m interested in who you''d play up front tonight?

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I would very much welcome seeing either one of Abrahams and / or Fonkeu.

I said in pre-season I worried we were at least a striker short. Thankfully, we have shored up the back and have many options in midfield. We cannot seem to get going on a settled front pairing - Nelson is often injured but when he is present, he scores. Cameron runs his heart out and stretches defenders but as has been noted, he is no Ted McDougal or a Kevin Drinkell or an Earnshaw. We need someone like Earnie now (or a Robns). I believe we are one player short of being a solid potential top six proposition. Strikers win promotions, defenders win you a championship ...isn''t that the saying. It''s clear we are short of clear quality in the former.

Welcome canarymoon by the way, good to see a football-based new post even if not everyone will agree with you.

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