Utter Dross

[Hardhouse44 261]

My God when will we stop accepting the shite we are dished up. We put up with being a poor mans plaything. The club could be so much more if it was allowed to be. Foreign investment pours in to clubs half our size and stature. We belong in the Premiership yer our owners and some fans are content to be so much less.

No period of time to gel and adapt will make that bunch of players, playing that system consistant match winners. Yes we will scrape the odd win like Saturday but that slow and might I say boring style of approach will be totally ineffective against most teams in this league. The manager is completely out of his depth and the players he has been allowed to bring in are substandard..

Let''s stop beat about the bush. They are! And once again we''ve been conned by the owners. Promised we''d see a new and different style of football at carrow Road this season. It''s different alright!!!

[TCCANARY 263]

Is Utter the next German we''re looking at?

[yellowandgreen 34]

I can understand why you would feel like this after last nights game. The first half in particular was dull in the extreme.

However given the fact that we have been leaking goals. Something had to be done to stop this.

Playing six played in defence has worked well e.g. no goals conceded. One gaol scored, not so great.

I think we should be pleased to see that the manager has very sensibly dealt with the leaky defence. This needs to be given time to really bed in e.g. let''s see some clean sheets away from home.

So then we turn to not scoring goals. This is a by product of concentrating on defending. Two midfielders sitting back in front of the central defenders.

The manager seems to think that playing two midfielders so deep will get us clean sheets. This seems to be working. He also seems to think that this system allows the ''wing backs'' to get forward and help to create goal scoring chances.

This part of the system is not working so well. In the second half yesterday we dominated the game. Yes play was slow and pretty much no threat at all. But we never looked like losing. This is ok away from home. Although perhaps it would be a good idea to bring on subs earlier in the second half to freshen up the attack.

Team is very much a work in progress.

Keep the faith leaky defence solved

Now let''s see what the manager can do to get the team to create more goal scoring chances.

[Carra Rud 17]

We were playing Burton not Real Madrid, its one extreme to another can''t win a game, if you never get anything on target.

[Dean Coneys boots 1,398]

I know some people whose houses are ''a work in progress'' but because they have cheap tools and not enough skill- it will always end up a botch job.

The OP is bang on. Given our income over recent seasons, our gate and fantastic away support, our unique geographic draw and our status as a side who recently came down- we are punching well beneath our weight.

We have beaten only teams that will be bottom- and have never looked good all season. Because the players are a massive downgrade and the manager is another rookie.

You can ALWAYS say- give it time, be realistic about where we are- all the excuses people give when failing in business and life. The successful have ambition and drive and dont settle for second best. We do- the board is tired and spent and dinosaurs in modern football terms belonging to a different era. It is a bit embarrassing watching smaller sides overtake us in terms of vision and investment.

Now watch as the clappers turn on me and denounce me for being negative. because- wow- we kept a clean sheet against BURTON- who didn''t even try and score!!

[lake district canary 4,531]

Yes, it was more like a 2 4 3 1 yesterday. What it lacked was quality from Wes, Vrancic and Murphy.  Wes was on one of his running into trouble days by often beating two players and getting caught out by the third - there was not enough space for him to play. Vrancic was not at his best either and Murphy should have scored twice.  Oliveira looked a bit frustrated too.   All in all the decision making was poor from the team, from the sideways passing at the kick off, to the lack of control in midfoeld, to the way shots were fired in - lost count of how many wild shots there were. But we should have won. Murphy simply had to score those two chances - buried the first one and at least got a decent contact on the second one. But we take two clean sheets to Sheffield and a different challenge altogether.  Another Millwall type game in prospect against a buzzing promoted team - we will see if the team has learned anything since then!

[hogesar 9,615]

[quote user="lake district canary"]Yes, it was more like a 2 4 3 1 yesterday. What it lacked was quality from Wes, Vrancic and Murphy.  Wes was on one of his running into trouble days by often beating two players and getting caught out by the third - there was not enough space for him to play. [/quote]

That happens when there''s literally 0 movement in front of him. At least he vaguely tried to make things happen.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="hogesar"][quote user="lake district canary"]Yes, it was more like a 2 4 3 1 yesterday. What it lacked was quality from Wes, Vrancic and Murphy.  Wes was on one of his running into trouble days by often beating two players and getting caught out by the third - there was not enough space for him to play. [/quote]

That happens when there''s literally 0 movement in front of him. At least he vaguely tried to make things happen.

[/quote]But he had plenty of chances to cross but often held on to the ball too long, waiting for an opening and in a game like that, where the defence is so tightly packed, those openings are not there. It is why he is not best suited to some kinds of games.

[Rogue Baboon 0]

Farke was too slow to make the changes yesterday. We didnt need 2 holding midfielders against Burton, the lack of width on the right was awful.

The changes should have been made somewhere between half time & the 60th minute. I''m not sure the reasons for waiting so long, but it was obvious what was happening.

Also, I''m not sure a clean sheet at home to Burton is anything to shout about. They had very little intention of attacking.

[Dean Coneys boots 1,398]

And if we get whalloped by Sheff Utd Lakey?

[SwindonCanary 455]

Anyone watch Sam Allardyce on Monday night football? here is some of his quotes. "I was brought up to always make your first pass forward if you can," he

said. "Even against the best defensive team in the Premier League, it''s

a quick forward pass that creates the opportunity to score."Too many sideways or backward passes allow the opposition to get back into their own half and put up two banks of four."There''s an emphasis in the Premier League now not to play the ball in

behind the opposition quick enough," he added. "It''s fashionable now to

have possession in midfield, but no defender likes running back towards

their own goal with a centre-forward chasing them down."I know Sam likes to play a more direct way, but a lot of what he had to say, could be our failings 

[ROBFLECK 132]

I felt the same as the OP yesterday...now I have put it somewhat into perspective. But like I mentioned in Ricardo''s thread...I have lost a bit more confidence in Farke...Why didn''t he make substitutions!!! We were crying out for a change by the 60th minute!

A bit more width (Wildschut) or a bit more attacking intent (Jerome) could have changed the game! I really feel we would have won if he''d gone two up top for example or 4-3-3 ... We can''t even beat Burton at home ... so forget a top six season...

[Baldyboy 0]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="hogesar"][quote user="lake district canary"]Yes, it was more like a 2 4 3 1 yesterday. What it lacked was quality from Wes, Vrancic and Murphy.  Wes was on one of his running into trouble days by often beating two players and getting caught out by the third - there was not enough space for him to play. [/quote]

That happens when there''s literally 0 movement in front of him. At least he vaguely tried to make things happen.

[/quote]But he had plenty of chances to cross but often held on to the ball too long, waiting for an opening and in a game like that, where the defence is so tightly packed, those openings are not there. It is why he is not best suited to some kinds of games.

[/quote]

Were you there Lakey? I doubt it, because if you were you would have seen the total lack of movement off the ball or any players trying to get forward to support the attack! At one point we had an attack where Wes had nobody in the box to cross to, even Oliveira couldn''t be arsed to get in the box!

The need to play 6 defensive players against the mighty Burton shows a totally clueless head coach who when he finally made subs just went like for like instead of just trying something new!

We will not need to worry about getting anywhere near the play offs until Farke starts understanding that English football is not possession based unless you are actually in the Premier League!

[Indy_Bones 441]

[quote user="Hardhouse44"]My God when will we stop accepting the shite we are dished up. We put up with being a poor mans plaything. The club could be so much more if it was allowed to be. Foreign investment pours in to clubs half our size and stature.[/quote]You mean like the investments that have poured into Sunderland and Villa, who have had hundreds of millions pumped into them in recent years, and yet who are both below us in the table, and getting slated by their fans even more than some of ours are doing to us...Villa have spent nearly 130 million in the past 2-3 seasons, with big money players like McCormack (who''s hit just 4 goals in the 30 odd games he''s played since they signed him), clearly showing that a rich, foreign billionaire is no guarantee of success whatsoever.

[Dean Coneys boots 1,398]

Investment doesn''t guarantee success - it can be wasted

But lack of investment does guarantee decline

And there is the rub

[Phyxius 0]

[quote user="TCCANARY"]Is Utter the next German we''re looking at?

[/quote]

Brilliant! Ütter Dröß Perhaps?

[Capt. Pants 4,195]

It was dire and frankly not the football I want to see Norwich City Football Club playing. Pointless sideways passing, little or no movement, no width on the right, 2 DMs at home to Burton FFS. Feels like the Hughton days all over again.

[ROBFLECK 132]

Dean Coney''s boots : Investment doesn''t guarantee success - it can be wasted

But lack of investment does guarantee decline

And there is the rub

You''ve got a point....

[Barry Brockes 145]

To run a successful club at Championship level these days you either need substantial and wise investment or a board who know how to run a football club fit for the present times and preferably both. Sadly, we have neither.

[BroadstairsR 2,138]

With Ollie''s somewhat scrambled goal against Birmingham coming very early in the game we have now played probably 180+ minutes of football against two of the least fancied sides in the league without further adding to our tally.

I don''t recall either opposition ''keeper having a blinder.

What with that and the recent embarrassing defensive showings it is all turning into a bit of a nightmare. Alex Neil started with a bang and went out with a whimper. Our present manager has started with a whimper. I''m waiting for the bang.

I used to get a bit nervous waiting for Alex Neil''s team sheets to be revealed as there always seemed to be some anomaly that spelled likely disaster, and often did. Nothing seems to have changed.

A defensive mind-set against Burton Albion at home for the best part of ninety minutes? I ask you.

There''s such a thing as learning the ropes, learning curves and the this so-called great mysterious being that is the English Championship league but how long does it take to work out that a football match is grinding to a stalemate and that the answer to unlocking it might well be on the bench?

Nigel Clough out-witted Daniel Farke last night and he''s no Brian by any stretch of the imagination.

[Jim Smith 2,314]

I have no major issue with the team selection other than I would have played Wes and Maddison together because its clear to see when they do play together than they have a genuine understanding and are capable of moving the ball quickly in a congested midfield.

Trybull doesn''t strike me as an out and out defensive midfielder so I don''t think the problem is playing Trybull and Tettey together but more the very disciplined roles both played last night. In some scenarios (away from home in particular) this is what you want and I suspect its formed part of the defensive work Farke has been doing but if you look at their respective heat maps for the game both stuck rigidly to their respective sides of the pitch and both spent virtually all of their time within a zone 20 yards either side of the halfway line. There were no real forward bursts or runs into the area and nobody was getting forward from midfield to get on the end of crosses or give a runner into the box.

That for me was an issue last night given the opposition. One of them could have done this but I get the sense they were instructed not to. Alternatively we should have played Madders alongside Tettey as the former more naturally makes those sort of runs.

[Hardhouse44 261]

Truth of the matter the running of a football club more and more these day seem to be reactive. Whether on not you or I like it Crystal Palace have acted reactively. They have concluded that they have made a mistake employing De Boar and reacted. They have made a conclusion that his continuation in to position jeopardises their chances of remaking in the Premiership. They have then moved for a tried and test option. Again whether you rate him or agree with him they have acted reactively to a situation.

Time and time again whilst we have been in a position to stay in the Premiership we have not acted reactively. We have not reacted at all. We start Premiership campaign with strikers such as Jerome, tried and test at that level and found wanting. We have allowed managers to take us up and also down and never reacted in the January window at any committee level.

Lack of funds many cry. Lack of ambition I say.

What was the risk. If last night is the reward for prudence then you can keep it. I rather go out with a fighting chance than remain forever alive on a virtual life support machine being spoon fed crap like last night and having my ar$e wiped with second rate players.

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,017]

If the only "positive" to be found is the fact that we kept a clean sheet at home to a fantastically average Burton Albion side then we really are in a bad place.

Changes or not to the structure, team etc, last night should have been at least a 2-0 win.

DF had a record of not losing many games and drawing a lot in Germany, and last night showed why, a real fear to get at teams. The players also need to take some responsibility, we had a couple of counter attacking chances in the first half, but for some reason we did not take the initiative but instead slowed the attack down and reverted to the sideways pass, one or more players in those counter attack opportunities should have tried to press home the attack, and take a bollocking at half time if that was counter to team orders.

Burton arrived at CR low on confidence after a 5-0 drubbing at the weekend, we should have had a go at them for the first 15/20 minutes but instead we failed to register a single shot on target (Burton had one on target) in the first half. As the game wore on it was clear to me that for twenty minutes either side of half time Burton fancied their chances at nicking a goal and shutting up shop on the basis that at the time we were not hurting them that much.

The latter part of the second half was better in that the realisation that two points were about to be dropped kicked in, resulting in a little more urgency, but for better finishing we would have won.

All in all an extremely frustrating night, and for me no real excuses for not winning at home against a side that is likely to be battling relegation.

[Baldyboy 0]

Many more home performances like that against so called weaker opposition then we will be in that relegation fight along with Burton!

The real test comes on Saturday against Sheffield United who have won their last 9 home league games.

Lose that and we will definitely struggle with Farke in charge

[hogesar 9,615]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="hogesar"][quote user="lake district canary"]Yes, it was more like a 2 4 3 1 yesterday. What it lacked was quality from Wes, Vrancic and Murphy.  Wes was on one of his running into trouble days by often beating two players and getting caught out by the third - there was not enough space for him to play. [/quote]

That happens when there''s literally 0 movement in front of him. At least he vaguely tried to make things happen.

[/quote]But he had plenty of chances to cross but often held on to the ball too long, waiting for an opening and in a game like that, where the defence is so tightly packed, those openings are not there. It is why he is not best suited to some kinds of games.

[/quote]

He had a few opportunities to cross but we didn''t have the numbers in the box for it to be a sensible thing to do. Sometimes not even Oliveira was! Even if he had been, he''d won none of his aerial battles previously.

[Len 74]

[quote user="Barry Brockes"]To run a successful club at Championship level these days you either need substantial and wise investment or a board who know how to run a football club fit for the present times and preferably both. Sadly, we have neither.[/quote]Very true. What''s interesting is that the pro-Delia crowd have now started to place the blame on lack of finances rather than admit that mismanagement has seen the club decline to pre-1970s levels (with a couple of blips in between).We have already seen some of the inquests posted on here which have essentially tried to dress up the last 10-15 years as a valiant exercise in swimming against the financial tide.But how many of these authors were critical of the running of the club in the post-Lambert years? How many were claiming we''d had good transfer windows as millions of pounds were being thrown down the drain?I wouldn''t like to see us owned by a faceless foreign billionaire, or be sold to someone who might sell to such in the future. But the cherry picking of statistics and general massaging of reality to try and paint Delia''s reign as a success seems to be a sport in itself.Things are unlikely to get better soon as we undergo a rapid reconstruction under Webber and Farke. But the present crisis has certainly exposed the past mismanagement and waste of millions.

[Guest]

But he had plenty of chances to cross but often held on to the ball too long, waiting for an opening and in a game like that, where the defence is so tightly packed, those openings are not there. It is why he is not best suited to some kinds of games.

When the defence is tightly packed you don''t want Wes out wide crossing. He needs to be on the edge of the box as he is the one player who can unlock a defence with no space to play in.

Last night several times he gave the ball and it took an eternity for the receiver to control and return and we lost the initiative,

[Hardhouse44 261]

Nothing has changed. UTTER DROSS

[yellowandgreen 34]

Utter dross in no way does justice to how bad that was today.

[Clint 221]

It''s the same every match though. Complete lack of width, players playing out of position, too slow in possession, no energy or dynamism, lack of any creativity or cutting edge, too many sideways and backwards passing etc etc.

Is it really any surprise that all of our attacking players (bar Nelson) look absolutely hopeless playing this style. Jerome, Murphy, Watkins and Wes haven''t become bad players overnight!

It''s like the Hughton days all over again except against considerably inferior opposition.