Just Play Football...

[Jools 584]

Farke needs to cease fannying around with formations and intelligent tactics that most of the squad are not yet comprehending -- Just field a 4-4-2 and play players to their strengths and in their correct positions.Drop the shell-shocked Gunn,  Martin, Husband and Franke for the time being and go with the following against Birmingham:McGovern - gkPinto - rbZimmermann - cbKlose cbStiepermann - lbWildschut - rwReed - cmTettey - cmMurphy - lwOliveira - fJerome - f

[FCC 76]

That is not our philosophy - which is pass it around without going anywhere before giving the ball away and allowing the opposition a free scoring opportunity.

[TIL 1010 4,717]

I got as far as McGovern and had read enough.

[ricardo 7,328]

The only change I''d make to that team is replacing McGovern with my recycling bin.

Otherwise spot on

[Drazen Muzinic 1,444]

That''s harsh Ricckkaay...on your recycling bin!

[rock bus 850]

Back to basics seems necessary.

That team seems more solid but I''d stick with Gunn and also have one of Maddison, Hoolahan or Watkins playing behind Oliveira rather than Jerome.

[Indy_Bones 441]

Classic ''old school'' response from an English fan."We''ll have none of this continental rubbish, none of this 3-5-2, 3-4-3, 4-2-3-1 or anything like that, it''s good old 4-4-2 or nothing, it worked when I was a lad, and it''s still the best way now"...The fact that virtually no-one plays 4-4-2 with ''classic'' wingers and 2 out and out strikers, any more should tell you something, but no, let''s demand we rewind time just for the sake of it.Farke needs to hold his nerve and maintain his philosophy whilst trying to remove individual failings and get the team more solid defensively. We knew it wouldn''t be an overnight success, but rushing to demand a return to 4-4-2 is NOT the answer.

[Jools 584]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"]Classic ''old school'' response from an English fan."We''ll have none of this continental rubbish, none of this 3-5-2, 3-4-3, 4-2-3-1 or anything like that, it''s good old 4-4-2 or nothing, it worked when I was a lad, and it''s still the best way now"...The fact that virtually no-one plays 4-4-2 with ''classic'' wingers and 2 out and out strikers, any more should tell you something, but no, let''s demand we rewind time just for the sake of it.Farke needs to hold his nerve and maintain his philosophy whilst trying to remove individual failings and get the team more solid defensively. We knew it wouldn''t be an overnight success, but rushing to demand a return to 4-4-2 is NOT the answer.[/quote]The 4-4-2 worked pretty well for Millwall yesterday.

[Indy_Bones 441]

We lost based on defensive failings combined with poor finishing, not because we didn''t play a poxy 4-4-2...

[Rogue Baboon 0]

4231.

But the 4 is the important bit. They need to mark there man, challenge for the ball, win their headers. Just basic defending...

[Horse Renoir 1]

I wouldn''t go as far as you have, but we''ll never be able to afford players good enough to play the way we''re trying to. In League 1 maybe but that we be taking following the Charlton model too far :P

Watching Arsenal get smashed by Liverpool in terms of shape and the areas they try to pass into they look very similar to what Farke''s trying to do here, they move the ball a lot faster but similar fatal flaws keep appearing.

Would focus on getting the basics right,, winning your individual battles, getting the ball forward quicker and into the box much faster, even at the risk of sometimes conceding possession. We should counteract that by pressing in packs and working really hard off the ball. Some good foundations have been laid in certain aspects but this possession for the sake of possession snail paced, one dimensional, idealistic nonsense needs to stop right now. Being able to keep the ball like that at times is a great weapon to have, to use it as a main tactic and focus of play in this league is a bit ridiculous.

If we''re out of cash I''d bring Raggett in to play next to either Klose or Zimmermann next game. We haven''t got a ''stopper'' style CB in the squad, despite being tall our new signings are more in the Fleming mouls, if nowhere near as good.

[Horse Renoir 1]

Mould*

[Making Plans 936]

[quote user="Rogue Baboon"]4231.

But the 4 is the important bit. They need to mark there man, challenge for the ball, win their headers. Just basic defending...[/quote]The bottom line is that realistically we do not have one competent, Champioship level defender (possibly excluding Pinto & Klose but even that is debatable).Put any 4 incompetent defenders together in the same team and, as we have seen, it becomes a disaster area.The basics of defending are just not there, there is too much ball watching, too much fannying around, poor marking, weak tackling, poor decision making, poor reading of situations, and they are all too slow.Above all there is no leadership, no one in charge, and no organiser.

[Rogue Baboon 0]

Exactly MP.

We are trying to reinvent the wheel, but we appear to have completely forgotten the basics. But it''s teams that do the basics well that make the most solid championship teams.

We need to go back to basics at the back and try and build our style on top of that

[Jools 584]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"]We lost based on defensive failings combined with poor finishing, not because we didn''t play a poxy 4-4-2...[/quote]The defensive failings have been and continue to be through the wrong formations, notably the 4-1-4-1 and not having the right personnel to execute said formation effectively.Hoolahan out on the right, ffs.I''m a believer in defence starts with attack and it''s clear our attacking players have not been best utilised -- out & out wingers getting in crosses to two strikers with two DMC''s aiding an unsure back four IS the way to go for the time being.Leicester won the Premiership with a 4-4-2 and Cardiff''s 15pts from 5 matches have come via the 4-4-2 - and a whole host of other clubs are playing the 4-4-2.We''re in the English second Division, not the f*cking La Liga.

[Jools 584]

[quote user="Rogue Baboon"]Exactly MP.

We are trying to reinvent the wheel, but we appear to have completely forgotten the basics. But it''s teams that do the basics well that make the most solid championship teams.

We need to go back to basics at the back and try and build our style on top of that[/quote][Y]

[Canary Wundaboy 1,358]

Gunn is not the problem. Sure he''s young and inexperienced, but he''s being horribly exposed and yet is still making decent saves to keep scorelines from becoming cricket scores.

[Jools 584]

[quote user="Jools"]Farke needs to cease fannying around with formations and intelligent tactics that most of the squad are not yet comprehending -- Just field a 4-4-2 and play players to their strengths and in their correct positions.Drop the shell-shocked Gunn,  Martin, Husband and Franke for the time being and go with the following against Birmingham:McGovern - gkPinto - rbZimmermann - cbKlose cbStiepermann - lbWildschut - rwReed - cmTettey - cmMurphy - lwOliveira - fJerome - f[/quote]

Revised starting 11 for Birmingham:Gunn - gkPinto - rbHanley - cbKlose - cbStiepermann - lbWildschut - rwReed - cmTettey - cmMurphy - lwOliveira - fJerome - f

[Rogue Baboon 0]

Hoolahan or Maddison in for Jerome is the only change I would make from that, especially at home

Not sure on Stiepermann at LB, but Husband looks poor. Would still rather we had a LB brought in

[Indy_Bones 441]

Sorry Jools, but I think that suggestion looks bloody awful!Hanley has hardly played over the last year and will surely need time to get up to required fitness levels, similarly Klose is only just back from injury and may not be ready for a full game (although I would also play him for 60-70 mins at least), and I''d argue that if we''re playing Stiepermann then it needs to be at LWB rather than LB.Our central midfield would be pretty strong defensively, but offer very limited attacking threat through the middle, and Wildschut has yet to impress in a single game when actually played on the wing rather than as a wingback.I''m also not convinced that Jerome and Nelson would work that well together either.All that being said, I personally I think we might go with:                       Gunn         Martin  Hanley  KlosePinto               Reed             StiepermannWatkins           Wes                 Murphy                      NelsonI expect to be proven utterly wrong however [:D]

[AJ 1,218]

I''ll have a go...

Gunn

Pinto Hanley Klose Stiepermann

Tettey Reed

Watkins Wes Murphy

Nelson

[Fr. Chewy Louie 137]

Agree with FCC''s point in second post about the philosophy - passing and possession are great. but it does feel like we''re doing it for the sake of it and player''s are consciously curbing their attacking instincts.

When you''re behind in a game I''m sure the opposition are delighted if you pass it around near the half way for five minutes before giving it away.

[lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0]

I think we need the pace and directness of Wildhsut and Murphy flanking Hoolahan, behind Oliveria.

Wildshut Hoolahan Murphy

Oliveria

Watkins potentially instead of Murphy.

I have no idea about the rest of it. We''ve got a mess of a squad currently.

[lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0]

Watkins, Wildshut, Hoolahan, Reed and Maddison have so many good qualities for this league, I just don''t know how Farke can utilise them all properly.

I like the idea of 4-2-3-1 with Reed and Maddison holding, but they are a little too naive and inexperienced for that role currently.

[Rolf Harris 31]

Well Brighton will play the English style, and will get relegated in the premier league. Swansea played nice football in the League 1, Champs and Premier league. So, why can''t we?

Every cried about Hughton football, may be it''s fine in the champs but not good enough for prem. Which is the end game, right?

A team which wants to survive, just can''t just play hoof football in the champs and expect to change everything once in the prem because that type of football won''t cut it.

Prime example is watching Allaydice''s Palace try and fail to play De Boer, passy passy football.

[Fr. Chewy Louie 137]

I''d bring Tettey in with Reed and give Madders a break.

[Jools 584]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"]Sorry Jools, but I think that suggestion looks bloody awful!Hanley has hardly played over the last year and will surely need time to get up to required fitness levels, similarly Klose is only just back from injury and may not be ready for a full game (although I would also play him for 60-70 mins at least), and I''d argue that if we''re playing Stiepermann then it needs to be at LWB rather than LB.Our central midfield would be pretty strong defensively, but offer very limited attacking threat through the middle, and Wildschut has yet to impress in a single game when actually played on the wing rather than as a wingback.I''m also not convinced that Jerome and Nelson would work that well together either.All that being said, I personally I think we might go with:                       Gunn         Martin  Hanley  KlosePinto               Reed             StiepermannWatkins           Wes                 Murphy                      NelsonI expect to be proven utterly wrong however [:D][/quote]Me too [:)] And we have been.

[Rogue Baboon 0]

Basics. Defenders that defend, midfielders that do the simple stuff.

Very little over-playing today, Trybull probably didn''t pass the ball more than 10 yards, but that''s something we have been lacking

[Indy_Bones 441]

[quote user="Rogue Baboon"]Basics. Defenders that defend, midfielders that do the simple stuff.

Very little over-playing today, Trybull probably didn''t pass the ball more than 10 yards, but that''s something we have been lacking[/quote]Funny how despite Tettey doing exactly that since we signed him, he''s regularly been slated for only making ''simple'' passes, yet when Trybull does it, it''s suddenly great...

[Jools 584]

[quote user="Jools"]Farke needs to cease fannying around with formations and intelligent tactics that most of the squad are not yet comprehending -- Just field a 4-4-2 and play players to their strengths and in their correct positions.Drop the shell-shocked Gunn,  Martin, Husband and Franke for the time being and go with the following against Birmingham:McGovern - gkPinto - rbZimmermann - cbKlose cbStiepermann - lbWildschut - rwReed - cmTettey - cmMurphy - lwOliveira - fJerome - f[/quote]Well, we didn''t exactly go 4-4-2 to turn things around, but Farke did drop Martin, Husband and Franke in addition to fielding two DM''s in front of a back four [Y]You''re very welcome [:)]