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Yellowhammer

No improvement

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Can''t see from the players we have sold or shipped out and the players who have arrived how we can be any better off than last season. The only hope is that they play better as a team and are more committed .

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[quote user="Captain Birdseye"]I have seen them at Lowestoft and Stevenage take it from me we are going backwards![/quote]Did you bump into Top Hat Canary at either of those games ?

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That''s a harsh conclusion Birdseye after only a few pre season frienlies , don''t you think? ...

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Back on topic what exactly were you hoping to see from these games played so far ? The overpaid deadwood have been shifted and hungry younger players are being brought in. Impatience will get us nowhere.

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Far too early to say either way and there will be more ins and outs to come before the season starts. Expectations have been lowered which may be to our advantage

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[quote user="Yorkshire Canary"]Far too early to say either way and there will be more ins and outs to come before the season starts. Expectations have been lowered which may be to our advantage[/quote]

sensible post Yorkshire...and to say it''s been lowered is an understatement...(ref. Facebook etc...)

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It is becoming quite clear that the club are taking no chances with the final £30 million of Prem money and consolidating for an extended run at this level. I was hoping for an all out effort this season but it obviously isn''t going to happen. Finishing above 1p5wich will be the limit of our expectations this season.I would love to be wrong about this but the signs all point the other way.

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We certainly aren''t taking any financial risks or making one final push Ricardo, that''s correct.

But there''s literally no way of knowing if we will be better or worse than last season, Huddersfields squad on paper was weaker than ours but look what happened. Look what Lambert achieved with a small budget...

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[quote user="ricardo"]It is becoming quite clear that the club are taking no chances with the final £30 million of Prem money and consolidating for an extended run at this level. I was hoping for an all out effort this season but it obviously isn''t going to happen. Finishing above 1p5wich will be the limit of our expectations this season.I would love to be wrong about this but the signs all point the other way.[/quote]The signs all point the right way to me. The club have not taken these drastic steps to be ''consolidating for an extended run at this level'' , otherwise that would have simply meant retaining much of last season, coaching staff and all.I would very much doubt that Webber would have given up a chance to be in the PL for  "an extended run at this level". So by al means have doubts that the squad won''t be up to much more than a top half finish, but to state that after all that has happened this is the club''s aim is absurd.I believe you previously replied to a post about the state of the squad that the season hasn''t started yet. Heed your own words. Let us see who is here on Aug 5th and who is here on Aug 31st.The latter date should also give us an idea of where we are headed as well.

ps fell free to ignore this thought, what use are my predictions ?

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"It is becoming quite clear that the club are taking no chances with the final £30 million of Prem money and consolidating for an extended run at this level. I was hoping for an all out effort this season but it obviously isn''t going to happen."

It is appearing to be very cautious, although the complete change of regime was not inexpensive in all probability.

I remain generally happy although the "all or nothing" approach would gel with me even though it failed miserably the last time McNally was given the reigns.

It would seem that with money in the bank in the form of the Murphys, Pritchard, Oliveira etc. overmuch caution for this

particular campaign would be selling the club short.

However, should this approach fail once again the future would be even more bleak with even more stars HAVING to be sold off.

Also, the ''all out effort'' you refer to might be partly covered by the club seemingly quite determined to hang onto these assets for now.

It''s a balancing act .......... once again.

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[quote user="hogesar"]We certainly aren''t taking any financial risks or making one final push Ricardo, that''s correct.

But there''s literally no way of knowing if we will be better or worse than last season, Huddersfields squad on paper was weaker than ours but look what happened. Look what Lambert achieved with a small budget...[/quote]Yes. By common consent we had a squad last season that should have at least reached the play-offs, but did not because it turned out, again by common consent, the manager was tactically weak. It is far too early to say, but there are straws in the wind that we now have a tactically astute head coach. And perhaps also one who demands a higher level of fitness than we have had since Lambert was manager.As to finances, the dust will settled at the end of the summer window, and then again after the winter window, but my feeling is that the board has settled on a sensible middle way policy, of cutting the wage bill (and the age bill, as it were) in case we do not go up, but keeping as much footballing (and resaleable) quality as possible. Going financially all out in a gamble on promotion could not have been justified.

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You''ve said it for me Captain Haddock.

Anyone that is already writing us off as merely consolidating or accepting we''re championship mediocrity should be ashamed of themselves. It''s far too easy to be negative and then be able to say ''I told you so''.

The club are being sensible yet Farke and Webber will most definitely not be thinking that finishing above the binners is the best we can hope for. Why come here if thats the case? Yes I''m sure they both knew they''d be limitations but they wouldn''t be here if they didn''t think they could further their careers and achieve some success i.e promotion.

If Lamberts reign told us anything, it''s not about individual brilliance but a team ethic, fitness, organisation and playing to your strengths whilst uncovering a few gems for a bargain price.

Who knows what will happen but I for one can''t wait for it all to start and don''t believe the club are thinking anything but a push for promotion is the aim for this season.

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Yes, I offer it as an opinion based upon what I see as a downgrading of the squad.

This doesn''t look like a $hit or bust effort to regain our former status. It''s more of a safety first and see how it goes, sensible in the circumstances but hardly exciting.

This is a season where it could go either way but personally I''m not feeling optimistic. Could be the weather, could be my age, I wait as ever to be amazed.

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="hogesar"]We certainly aren''t taking any financial risks or making one final push Ricardo, that''s correct. But there''s literally no way of knowing if we will be better or worse than last season, Huddersfields squad on paper was weaker than ours but look what happened. Look what Lambert achieved with a small budget...[/quote]

Yes. By common consent we had a squad last season that should have at least reached the play-offs, but did not because it turned out, again by common consent, the manager was tactically weak. It is far too early to say, but there are straws in the wind that we now have a tactically astute head coach. And perhaps also one who demands a higher level of fitness than we have had since Lambert was manager.

As to finances, the dust will settled at the end of the summer window, and then again after the winter window, but my feeling is that the board has settled on a sensible middle way policy, of cutting the wage bill (and the age bill, as it were) in case we do not go up, but keeping as much footballing (and resaleable) quality as possible. Going financially all out in a gamble on promotion could not have been justified.

[/quote]

Exactly how I see it Purple.  I think we took the gamble when we signed Naismith and Klose on deals that clearly saw them getting high wages through into the next season or two if they stay, i.e. running after the end of parachute payments (which I find surprising but that seems the way it is).  We''ve then gambled again by keeping the top earners last season and backing the manager to get us back up.  I was always dubious about that but I suppose you could see the owners'' point that AN had succeeded in the Champs before.  But those gambles have now failed and we are financially restricted as a result.  So unless someone is happy to take Naismith off our hands, economies have been needed and I think a decent balance has been struck so far.  We''ll have to see how it works over the summer but at the moment I am cautiously optimistic that we''ll see an improvement on last season.  If you look at last season''s playoff teams, I think we''ll have a squad that is as good as most of them if not better.

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While the names coming in aren''t ''big'' names in England they could be just the players Norwich need.

For me Vrancic is a big step up from Dorrans and Reed is an improvement on the ageing Tettey.

Gunn is a gamble, but hard to be worse than Ruddy and McGovern who both had a very poor season last time round.

Zimmerman will ultimately end up being 4th choice centre back, the club have confirmed they are looking to bring someone in to play that position.

The squad last season was largely imbalanced and Webber is trying to address that and bring in good players in the positions they are needed most. While you may not have heard of these players, it doesn''t mean they are downgrades - it could just be the man who is heading up recruiting, and has spend the last 10 years of his life specialising in that field, and build a promotion winning team for less than £5m at Huddersfield, knows a bit more about it that anyone on this message board.

Going out and spending big money on high profile players hasn''t really worked out too well in the past and could have been even worse had Villa not out bid Norwich for Ross McCormack.

Even without the financial constraints I''m pretty sure Webber would be ungoing such a radical overhaul of the squad, he did it with great success in his previous job and he''ll be looking to deliver that success again at Norwich.

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" again by common consent, the manager was tactically weak."stop making up stuff, there was no common consent, however what there is, is an understanding that all was not well within the squad and players were not commited - why, has not or I doubt will be fully explained but I very much doubt it was due to the manager being ''tactically weak.'' whatever that isI don''t see the squad as being downgraded, if only that we don''t know who else might be joining us. A player is only good as his performance, not his reputation. Too many last season were not fully committed. Those have been moved on in one way or the other.We have yet to really see the squad tested. Too many have come accustomed to PL money and the players that brought.Well, we will run out of that money by next June. Those advocating sh  it or bust cannot really have the club''s interests at heart. I don''t want to see a bust NCFC. And I do believe that we can get promoted without risking all one one throw of the dice. We did it in 09/10 again in 10/11 and did we really gamble all in 14/15 ?The first two were with a squad that were hungry for success, and saw the PL as something go fight for. Last season too many thought they should be in the PL resented the club for keeping them out of it. How many of our present squad have played in the PL ?The motivation and drive that was missing last season won''t be missing this year. Prepared to be amazed (and perhaps get a pair of those incontinence pants so you won''t miss goals either  )

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Haddock you seem to be on every thread fighting the fires of doubt and assuring us all is ok!

I agree that young hungry players could make a real difference. But you havent addressed the actual reasons for the doubt

1. At present the defence looks worse not better. It is not up to the right standard by some way and needs far more than 1 signing to sort it out. Given the strained finances it seems RM is again being viewed as first choice CB. Which seems unbelievable given his last few seasons

2. The signings we have made are totally unproven. People keep urging us to look at Huddersfield last year and say all is well. But they were the exception not the rule as to what tends to happen when you throw lots of untested talent into the mix. The majority are more likely to flop than excel. What happens then?

3. Our outlay is very low compared to the league thus far. Of course this could change but the worry is as of now. How can we be competitive when selling our best midfielders for reduced rates and buying in lower league stuff on freebies?

2-2 against Stevenage in a meaningless friendly is not cause for panic but alarm bells are ringing. Where is the quality CB we have been crying out for since 2014?

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Don''t think a new forward will be a priority, Nelson, Jerome and Watkins can all play there and offer a range of options and different styles.

Webber said that a LB, CB and CM would be signed after Howson left, they have done the LB and I''d expect the other two to not be far off.

DCB -

You say we are still waiting for a CB since 2014, I would point to the Swiss international who was signed for a large fee (a record signing at the time). I doubt Martin will be first choice, it will be Klose + New CB with Zimmermand and Martin battling it out to be first deputy.

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Ridcardo and others who say we are shaping up for an extended run in the Championship; I think you''re potentially correct, but I don''t think this is a negative move.

Let me explain - we had the chance last season to do the quick rebound with the expensive(ish) squad and we fluffed it badly. This season the money is drying up, and we amongst several other clubs know that it''s easy to get in above your head financially in the Champs.

The options this season are pretty much two fold - either you double down, spaff a load of money in the belief that you will make it back on your return to the Prem, or you make efficiencies. Given our version of a spending-spree is always going to pale in comparison to the bigger teams in the league, the latter option is in reality the only sensible option.

However, there are two ways to skin a cat. I suspect the Webber/Farke version of ''promotion on the cheap'' is significantly different to how the old structure with a classic Championship English manager would set up. Imagine if we had Pardew in charge, we''d be wasting money on old English players with crocked knees left right and centre and we''d be linked with the same old strikers we''ve been linked to for about four years.

In comparison to other teams, we have an interesting manager, some signings that look pretty good value and some young players coming through that could prove to be invaluable. Surely you can appreciate this is both a sensible and forward looking strategy?

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[quote user="Captain Birdseye"]I wonder how long it will take for the extreme happy clappers on here for their penny to drop..[/quote]Isn''t it time you Nappy Crappers actually spent a penny? [^o)]

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I''m just surprised no-one has started moaning at the club languishing in 16th place in the league?Apples

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@BethnalYG

We need to sign at least two central defenders if he wants a back three as an option. I''m not sure I like the idea of someone from the German 4th division being too close to the first team and Martin right now is also our only right back cover.

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[quote user="Felixfan"]The one thing I have learned over the years is that pre season friendlies are meaningless.[/quote]Quite! No manager wants his players injured before the season kicks off and nor do the players themselves want to miss out. These games are simply a way to try out different formations and tactics but most importantly, to get the players up to match fitness. From a spectators point of view, these games give them a chance to see any new signings and several of the squad having a kick-about on a warm summers day but to draw any conclusions from the performance or result is naivety in the extreme.

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Do you like the idea of having a lad from the German 4th division less than you would a lad from the English 5th Division at CB (Raggett)? Not having a dig, but a major problem for us over the past 5 years has been our scouting producing little or nothing in the way of decent work. Timm Klose is quality, but how difficult is it to scout a CB playing Champions League football?

The real scouting is finding these little gems from the lower leagues and less well known league across Europe. Webber has at least a record of being able to spot potential in a player at Huddersfield and we have to believe that he will do the same here.

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