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AJ

Squad Review

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So, pre-season in full swing and it''s safe to say we''ve probably done most of our expected business in this window. So he''s roughly how we look;

GK: Gunn (1st), McGovern (2nd) Matthews/Jones (3rd)

LWB: Husband (1st), Lewis (2nd), Toffolo (3rd)

CB: Klose (1st), Godfrey (2nd)

CB: Franke (1st) Zimmermann (2nd)

CB: R Martin (1st),

RWB: Pinto (1st), R Martin (2nd), Godfrey (3rd)

DM: Reed/Tettey, Vrancic (2nd), Godfrey (3rd)

CM: Vrancic (1st), Tettey (2nd), Godfrey (3rd)

LM: Pritchard (1st), Naismith (2nd), Wildschut (3rd)

AM: Wes (1st), Naismith (2nd), Maddison (3rd)

RM: Watkins (1st), Murphy (2nd), Wildschut (3rd)

STK: Jerome (1st), Oliveira (2nd), Watkins (3rd)

Thoughts so far? Obviously the 1st/2nd/3rd order is debatable, but that''s roughly what we''re working with.

Personally I think we''ve done well without spending much at all. Gunn on loan could be a good coup, Franke and Zimmerman add some much needed height to the back-line and seem like sensible options, if yet not the finished articles. Husband is a great solid signing at LB, with Lewis impressing in pre-season meaning we shouldn''t need any more business here. Vrancic seems like a really good addition, and the glimpses I''ve seen of Reed also look good and potentially a much better passer than Tettey at times.

Any areas you feel are weak? On paper, it''s look a pretty solid squad.

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[quote user="AJ"]So, pre-season in full swing and it''s safe to say we''ve probably done most of our expected business in this window. So he''s roughly how we look;

GK: Gunn (1st), McGovern (2nd) Matthews/Jones (3rd)

LWB: Husband (1st), Lewis (2nd), Toffolo (3rd)

CB: Klose (1st), Godfrey (2nd)

CB: Franke (1st) Zimmermann (2nd)

CB: R Martin (1st),

RWB: Pinto (1st), R Martin (2nd), Godfrey (3rd)

DM: Reed/Tettey, Vrancic (2nd), Godfrey (3rd)

CM: Vrancic (1st), Tettey (2nd), Godfrey (3rd)

LM: Pritchard (1st), Naismith (2nd), Wildschut (3rd)

AM: Wes (1st), Naismith (2nd), Maddison (3rd)

RM: Watkins (1st), Murphy (2nd), Wildschut (3rd)

STK: Jerome (1st), Oliveira (2nd), Watkins (3rd)

Thoughts so far? Obviously the 1st/2nd/3rd order is debatable, but that''s roughly what we''re working with.

Personally I think we''ve done well without spending much at all. Gunn on loan could be a good coup, Franke and Zimmerman add some much needed height to the back-line and seem like sensible options, if yet not the finished articles. Husband is a great solid signing at LB, with Lewis impressing in pre-season meaning we shouldn''t need any more business here. Vrancic seems like a really good addition, and the glimpses I''ve seen of Reed also look good and potentially a much better passer than Tettey at times.

Any areas you feel are weak? On paper, it''s look a pretty solid squad.[/quote]

Martin starting every game?Really

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Well, he started 37/46 games in the league last season, has just signed a new contract and is, the last time I checked, our club captain. So yes, I would assume that''ll be the case.

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I''d still expect 3 or 4 new players in yet. Webber will spread the Murphy money around the positions and chuck in a loan or two towards the end of the window. Josh Murphy is primarily a left winger, so still think we might be a bit light on the right hand side.

If Farke wants to use 3 at the back regularly then he''ll probably need another centre back, or at least an additional RB to free up Martin to centre back.

Webber has already stated that Howson will be replaced, so a midfielder will come in. Whether it is one who goes forward to stays back will be interesting to see.

So, 1 midfielder, 1 defender (CB or RB), 1 right winger and 1 ''other'' who becomes available on loan.

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Probably still a CB and Striker short of a complete squad for me - especially with Klose out. And possibly a defensive CM.

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4-1-4-1:

Gunn

Pinto Zimmerman Franke Husband

Reed

Watkins Vrancic Wes Naismith

Oliveira

3-4-3:

Gunn

Martin Zimmerman Franke

Pinto Vrancic Reed Husband

Watkins Oliveira Naismith

Both good line ups, but the bench would be weak defensively,

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[quote user="FenwayFrank"]Left side midfield doesn''t look very strong to me[/quote]Is that because we sold Dorrans [:D]

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When you say "strong on paper" how do you justify that

Gunn- never played a first team game in his life

Zimmerman- lower league totally untested at this level

Vrancic - marginally more experience but still untested

Reed- lots of positive reviews but little actual game time

Husband - 3rd choice at boro - little experience

So many risks being taken- not at all confident myself.

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Dean Coney''s boots wrote the following post at 18/07/2017 8:37 PM:

When you say "strong on paper" how do you justify that

Gunn- never played a first team game in his life

Zimmerman- lower league totally untested at this level

Vrancic - marginally more experience but still untested

Reed- lots of positive reviews but little actual game time

Husband - 3rd choice at boro - little experience

So many risks being taken- not at all confident myself.

Any suggestions on who we should have filled these positions with? Or is it the same stick to beat the club with?

Maybe we should pinch Ashley Cole from under Birmingham''s nose?

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While I''d agree with that assessment of most of the players - I take issue with the Vrancic one.

He has played about 80 games in the Bundesliga - that is a higher level than the Championship, and he was regarded as one of the best players in both the teams he represented. He had offers from other Bundesliga clubs this summer but choose to come to Norwich in the hope of reaching the Prem.

I think Zimmermann will be 4th choice centreback and have limited minutes across the season so not so worried about him. Reed has obvious talent so not worried about him, Husband was signed once by Webber before - doubt he''d get him back if there was an issue. I do worry about Gunn, but if he is as good as everyone says - then Norwich are golden.

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It isn''t as simple as saying "well who would you have signed" as the answer is that I would have signed two quality cbs last time we were promoted and the we might well not be having this conversation at all. The budget summer we witness is a result of several seasons of poor decisions at board level and failure to seek investment and embrace the global era.

But even leaving all that aside - I would have kept Ruddy and shipped out McGovern and I would have signed a proven championship CB perhaps looking at the sides who went up

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I wish YOU were overhauling the whole squad DCB as you have ALL the relevant info.

Webber and Farke are clueless - they''re just pi$$ing in the wind.

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Dean Coney''s boots wrote the following post at 18/07/2017 8:51 PM:

It isn''t as simple as saying "well who would you have signed" as the answer is that I would have signed two quality cbs last time we were promoted and the we might well not be having this conversation at all. The budget summer we witness is a result of several seasons of poor decisions at board level and failure to seek investment and embrace the global era.

But even leaving all that aside - I would have kept Ruddy and shipped out McGovern and I would have signed a proven championship CB perhaps looking at the sides who went up

So after all your waffling on all you would have done is kept one and signed another potentially costly other?

Its definitely relevant asking who you would have signed. After all, you keep crying about the ones we have signed.

I believe your angst in us not returning to the promised land last season is twisting your judgement upon what the club is trying to do this season. Lets forget last seasons failures and move on.

"several seasons of poor decisions at board level"? 4 out of 6 seasons in the premier league?

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Slightly different way of comparing.

Ruddy - Gunn

Rudd - x

Djiks - Husband

Bennett - Franke

Bassong - x

Turner - Zimmermann

Whitts - x

Dorrans - Vrancic

Howson - Reed

Mulumbu - x

Jacob - Watkins

Lafferty - x

Looking at the replacements I would agree we definitely still need an extra CB, particularly as that is the main area that needed strengthening in the first place.

Rudd, Bassong and Lafferty made virtually no contribution last year so we don''t need to replace any of them.

Whitts I think will be covered by some of the youngsters currently being given game time.

Mulumbu - bit on the cusp as to whether we need to replace or not.

Considering we have made huge inroads into the wage bill and around £15 million profit in transfers that looks like a good go at sorting out some very difficult problems with the squad.

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It is a squad full of unknowns. If Gunn, Franke and Vranic settle in well it could be excellent. However if Franke particularly isn''t as good as we hope we''re left with a fairly bad looking defence protecting an entirely untested goalkeeper.

I really don''t think we''ll have much of an idea until the end of October tbh.

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I think we''ll see a couple more yet, and also loans - Hudds seemed to have a number on loan last season and while we may not have the same gaps to fill as they had, I''d be surprised if more didn''t arrive.

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I''m thinking we still need a centre half and another different type striker to Oli and Jerome. Wouldn''t mind if they were both loans from upper premier league sides.

Think we are pretty much done in midfield although as others have pointed out would another wide player be too much of a luxury?

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So the general consensus is we need another CB at least, another CM and possibly a right winger.

CB I would agree with - if we''re going 3 at the back a lot, and with Russ being our main form of back-up for RB we definitely need another option because if Pinto got injured we''d be stretched.

CM, we''ve seen Howson, Dorrans and Mulumbu leave with just Vrancic coming in. I don''t think Vrancic''s quality is in question, he''ll be a regular starter, but we perhaps do need another option with Thompson now out for the season too.

RM/RW - since last season we''ve gained Watkins but will possibly lose Murphy. We do have Jarvis on our books of course but I guess he''s unlikely to feature regularly now, and I''m still not convinced on Wildschut. Ideally, especially whilst Pritchard is injured, we could do with signing someone who could play on either flank. From our line-ups in pre-season I''m not sure how often we''ll play with a proper ''winger'' as Pinto and Husband have been deployed as wingbacks, so it''s not unfathomable we could have a front three of Naismith-Wes-Maddison without wingers so I guess this will depend on Farke''s plans. But I''d always like an old style out-and-out winger as an option from the bench. You never know when you''ll need an injury time lump it in the box winger on the pitch!

We do have some ''risks'' in our squad, but I''m comfortable that the risks are calculated ones. Gunn and Reed are highly rated youngsters, Vrancic is very experienced at a high level. Zimmerman has obviously worked with Farke and has already been cited as an unfinished article and therefor predominantly a back-up/cover option. Franke is again a youthful option but has played a reasonable number of games. When you consider they have replaced Bennett/Bassong and Turner, these aren''t bad options, but you would like someone experienced to come in and challenge Martin and Klose no doubt.

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Apparently Franke cost Norwich £3m, there is no doubt this puts him firmly into the team as first choice centre back.

When fit I''d expect Franke/Klose in a back 4 or Martin/Franke/Klose in the back 3.

(Assuming no further additions are made in that area of the squad).

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Squad review? Currently weaker than then the squad that finished last season.

Proven championship players for second rate German league players. Most of the signings seem pretty reactive too, hopefully wrong but I doubt Webber had the likes of Zimmerman and Franke indentified well in advance.

Surely there are other championship players or league one hot prospects we could have been signing?

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I don''t see why he wouldn''t have identified Franke, regarded one of the best centre backs in the Bundesliga 2 last season.

From my experience of watching football in German the Bundesliga 2 is as good as the Championship. It sounds like Vrancic was identified before Farke even came in - Webber kept talking about ''pushing the button'' on several players in the interviews when Farke was announced. In the next few days Watkins, Gunn and Vrancic were signed - nothing reactive about that.

Championship/League One ''hot prospects'' cost considerably more than established players in Germany. That is why Norwich are going that route. Boro have just paid £14m for a player who is always injured, prices here are crazy and there is no reason to shop in England when overseas players have shown they can adapt quickly if correctly coached.

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If Klose and Pinto both miss the Fulham game as expected then we''ll be starting the season with a back four of Martin, Zimmerman, Franke, Husbands or a back three of Zimmerman, Martin and Franke with Wildschut at wing back. This doesn''t fill me with confidence.

Klose and Pinto have both spent significant time on the sidelines since they''ve been here so I think we need more depth here. If we want to play a back three then Martin can''t be backup for Pinto also as he isn''t quick enough to play wingback these days.

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[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]I''d still expect 3 or 4 new players in yet. Webber will spread the Murphy money around the positions and chuck in a loan or two towards the end of the window. Josh Murphy is primarily a left winger, so still think we might be a bit light on the right hand side.

If Farke wants to use 3 at the back regularly then he''ll probably need another centre back, or at least an additional RB to free up Martin to centre back.

Webber has already stated that Howson will be replaced, so a midfielder will come in. Whether it is one who goes forward to stays back will be interesting to see.

So, 1 midfielder, 1 defender (CB or RB), 1 right winger and 1 ''other'' who becomes available on loan.[/quote]

Glad to see some people at least acknowledging that in selling Murphy we might actually be a little short on the right and that Josh Murphy is not the direct replacement that I keep on hearing he his. He actually prefers to play off the left. The decision of whether to sell murphy was the right one is different question, but justifying it with the argument that they are essentially the same player and as such couldn''t have been fielded in the same team is codswallop. I wish people would just drop that and stick to the re-building argument that at least has some credence.

Whether we are light in the right winger department depends on whether Farke''s preferred formation has an emphasis on 4-1-4-1 as it was at dortmund or whether that has suddenly changed to a 3-5-2 emphasis. They are played slightly differently and as such need players with slightly different specialisms to play them. I think at some point a decision needs to be made about the preferred system (hopefully it already has!) and then sign players accordingly. Otherwise we''ll be signing players for both formations and we''ll end up with a squad that is just as bloated as it was at the start of the summer.

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It''s impossible to tell how the overseas signings will do, Klose was a much more highly thought of player in the top German division and he really struggled last year in the championship. These new players are going to have to adapt quickly to a very brutal type of football.

I think to expect all of them to work out is abit much and i would like to see a couple of promising young players brought in from our league system to compliment the new foreign players.

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Norwich have signed 7 players, 4 domestic and 3 from overseas, so there is a balance.

I''d say there is as much risk with a domestic signing not working out as there is an overseas one. The Championship is certainly not more ''brutal'' than the 2. Bundesliga and Webber showed with Huddersfield that players can fit in pretty quickly.

Having the Head Coach/Sporting Director structure means Farke can work with the players more than a traditional manager would be able to, easing their transition into a new team and playing a new system.

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[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]Norwich have signed 7 players, 4 domestic and 3 from overseas, so there is a balance.

I''d say there is as much risk with a domestic signing not working out as there is an overseas one. The Championship is certainly not more ''brutal'' than the 2. Bundesliga and Webber showed with Huddersfield that players can fit in pretty quickly.

Having the Head Coach/Sporting Director structure means Farke can work with the players more than a traditional manager would be able to, easing their transition into a new team and playing a new system.[/quote]

We shall see i''m hoping those players adapt well (they are going to be the key spine of the team it looks like) but i think you will find that The Championship is a far more competitive division than Bundesliga 2. The only reason i feel so certain of this is we have German in-laws living in Germany who i''ve talked to about German football alot over the years.

Obviously however, Webber had a great record last year in that market so i''m hoping this year he proves the same again, that it wasnt a flash in the pan.

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From an avid Football Manager player''s perspective, the squad is looking so much more appealing than it has in previous seasons: lots of youth, interesting foreign imports and barely any aging deadwood left to deal with. [:)]

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@tired

I''d say the opposite- for some reason our deadwood was ridiculously easy to sell for decent money and let you rebuild. I got £4m for Mulumbu, £3m for Bassong, £500k for Whitts etc.

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Pay good money for a CM and winger

Cheap CB

loan ST and RB

Thats what i''d do.

I hope Reed will surprise a few people, but I think we also need someone who we know can deliver as more of a defensive mid.

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