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norfolkngood

How Can We Reinvest ?? The big problem !

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to true JF Til said last season wallet was empty and i was told only sell to buy

also we had no money

well that''s fine but i will be truthful i didn''t know we had run up such a overdraft that it would swallow the incoming transfer kitty

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[quote user="JF"]I was told by someone who very much knows,that the finances were a mess over a year ago. I posted that on here and got the usual nonsense. The lesson is that if you know something it''s just not worth posting on here[/quote]Remember my '' The Wallet is Empty '' thread 13 months ago and the $hite i got for posting that ! Nutty please remember that at the last AGM back in  November that the finances covered the period July 1st 2015 to June 30th 2016 so last season may and i repeat may from what is being hinted on the homepage not make pretty reading at this years AGM. Last year we were told that we would go overdrawn by £6/7 million but are things worse than that ? Only when the accounts drop through the letterbox will we know.

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I can''t understand why it was so much of a surprise to everyone that the wallet was empty last year. As I said in the thread back then, you can''t have your cake and eat it. We can''t spend the money to try and stay in the PL AND expect it to be there the following June. Where did you expect it to come from Tilly?
You''re right. The next accounting period will be available to read in about 3 months time. That will take us up to June 2017. But as we are seeing plenty has gone on since then. David McNally and Alan Bowkett for years and Steve Stone now regularly explained the difficulties of running a business where your income can be halved from one year to the next and Steve Stone spoke about this again 6 days ago.

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I thought the sales of Howson ,Dorrans and Rudd would cover the £6/7 million overdraft and coupled with what we assume is a massive reduction in our wage bill it would have given us some breathing space and that a fair lump of the Jacob money would have been made available to Webber/Farke but it appears maybe not ?

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[quote user="TIL 1010"]I thought the sales of Howson ,Dorrans and Rudd would cover the £6/7 million overdraft and coupled with what we assume is a massive reduction in our wage bill it would have given us some breathing space and that a fair lump of the Jacob money would have been made available to Webber/Farke but it appears maybe not ?

[/quote]
I would have thought with less parachute payments the deficit this season would be take more offsetting than last season. But like you said we haven''t seen the accounts and they will reveal all. It''s fair to say that if they follow the pattern of other years then all money will be accounted for.

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That''s exactly how i saw it Til 6/7 Not 14/15 !

but is the debt / overdraft all paid of or is there more ??

it is common knowledge the club needs to get the wage bill down and in fact any high earner needs to go for us to survive next season without running that debt / overdraft up

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I struggle with all this TBH. We are now told that the club was mismanaged by Bowkett and McNally. I don''t really see that. We did the best we could for a club rising so quickly and they managed to get us back after we were relegated in 2014. But that difference in income would be difficult for anyone to negotiate. How would you guys get around it? Especially those of you who don''t want the club to be debt free?

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It wouldn''t be a huge surprise to see Big Cam moved on for a few million then. If the money''s a mess, anyone on a high wage will be considered and every club knows this. Worrying times indeed. A lot of faith being placed on Webber''s judgement & Farke''s ability. So far I like their decisiveness but 10-12 games in is when we can make a more reasoned judgement.

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I''m not overly worried paddy. It seems that mindset of many on here is very pessimistic. Last season many were clamouring for Jacob to be dropped and replaced by Canos. In fact most of the players were constantly criticised especially Jerome. I hope he stays BTW.
But although we should aim to be promoted I don''t think we should run the club expecting us to be promoted. The bookies have us as third fav at 3/1 which means even they think we are 3 times more likely not to be promoted. I think we are less likely than that. The favourites are 2/1 BTW. Which means they are considered twice as likely not to be promoted. To run a business at odds with those odds would be ridiculous. The club would derelict in their duty if they didn''t accept that the most likely scenario is that the parachute payments will run out while we have championship income.

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Well now that is a new one on me that Bowkett was in part responsible for mismanaging the club ! He quit in December 2015 a month before we threw stupid money around in that January transfer window in a desperate attempt to stay up which backfired and got us where we are today. I have said before that McNally was not God as some held him up to be and in my book he and not Bowkett was the one chucking stupid contracts and wages around.Ah well you learn something every day i suppose.

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[quote user="TIL 1010"]Well now that is a new one on me that Bowkett was in part responsible for mismanaging the club ! He quit in December 2015 a month before we threw stupid money around in that January transfer window in a desperate attempt to stay up which backfired and got us where we are today. I have said before that McNally was not God as some held him up to be and in my book he and not Bowkett was the one chucking stupid contracts and wages around.Ah well you learn something every day i suppose.[/quote]
I didn''t say it. The suggestion was that we had mismanaged our time in the PL not just the last few months. And I should imagine they included Chris Hughton''s summer window in that as well as Alex Neil''s january one.

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We are now told that the club was mismanaged by Bowkett and McNally.Well who said it then Nutty ? You might as well have said the board as a whole together with the managers were responsible for mismanaging our time in The Premiership but i somehow don''t think you will go down that route. [:P][;)]

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I''m not sure we can really angle anything at the board from this apart from not being rich enough. We can''t just constantly expect to have money without premier league football because Delia doesn''t have 20m to invest each season. Worryingly, Even if she did that wouldn''t have us competing with the richest in the league.

The biggest cost you can associate with the board is for sticking with AN as long as they did, and whilst Irvine generally did improve the results to a degree, it''s easy to say it with hindsight .

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]I struggle with all this TBH. We are now told that the club was mismanaged by Bowkett and McNally. I don''t really see that. We did the best we could for a club rising so quickly and they managed to get us back after we were relegated in 2014. But that difference in income would be difficult for anyone to negotiate. How would you guys get around it? Especially those of you who don''t want the club to be debt free?[/quote]The season we went down with Neil Adams, we had £7-8 million to spend. We''d planned to break even, but not paying out the Premiership bonuses made us a profit. Looks like the Alex Neil relegation already factored that in and spent that money.Problem is that we''ve bought badly for a few years, and have decent but aging players on salaries that are larger than their footballing ability.I think Webber''s trying to strip it back and use what we have now to rebuild, rather than pray we go up this season and have colossal problems if we don''t. 

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[quote user="TIL 1010"]We are now told that the club was mismanaged by Bowkett and McNally.Well who said it then Nutty ? You might as well have said the board as a whole together with the managers were responsible for mismanaging our time in The Premiership but i somehow don''t think you will go down that route. [:P][;)][/quote]
I don''t get the point you''re trying to make. The club is run the way it''s run. I already said I don''t agree that we mismanaged our time in the PL. I''m sure the board thought was creative to spend the budget on the likes of Fer, RVW and Hooper just like the following board thought it creative to spend it on Klose, Pinto and Naismith.
It seems to me you want to have petty non existent arguments rather than discuss the position the club is in. 

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I trust Webber because he''s a man who clearly knows his stuff and has made a massive hack at deadwood at Norwich. Not just with players but staff too.

Worst case we break even if owing with Jacob''s sale. It''s not like we don''t have a range of talent in place to take his place.

You have been reading too much into figures you don''t know are gospel truth and riding on speculation. Just have to ride the storm out and see where it leaves us. In the meantime enjoy the transition which so many people longed for. Few football fans can enjoy a transition that''s so positive. Imagine being a Sunderland fan currently, in Premier League debt and sinking. So what''s a few million in the grand scheme of things? The man Webber has been employed with the aid of Stone to review, cut and replace within our remit.

A lot of fans want the youth squadron to filter through but this is just only in the want of necessity. Irvine identified the need to do so only at encouragement - why introduce a young player to a defeatist atttiude or scar them with failure?

It takes time, patience and an understanding of the rebuilding job we''ve so desperately wanted and needed since Lambert left.

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Steve Stone said last Thursday that although we spent four of the last six seasons in The Premiership we have not moved forward as a club. That despite the massive injection of money it brought with it to leave us now scrimping around for every penny does not in my book point to there being a plan other than to get by.The thread title says '' How can we reinvest ?? '' The answer is we cannot if we just plod along as we have done in recent years. The total reliance on Webber & Farke to work a miracle concerns me as they will need financial back up at some stage along the way but if the desire from the boardroom is nothing more than to balance the books year upon year we will be a long time in the wilderness and Webber & Farke will move on.

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Exactly. Last six seasons. But I don''t really agree if you consider we were in Div Three (old money!!) 8 seasons ago.

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Oh and please don''t accuse me of having petty non existent arguments as you put it and describe it as a shame because this had the makings of a decent thread.You may not agree with what i am posting but hey ho i am trying to make sense of the indication on the homepage that £12 million from the sale of Jacob is needed elsewhere other than the transfer pot unless of course you were not surprised ? Well sorry Nutty but i for one was surprised as i thought the sale of Howson ,Dorrans and Rudd together with shifting the seven others off the wage bill had given us a degree of stability for a while but it appears not.

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The point I was making was you trying to turn it into an argument about individual board members. Not your views on the article.

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Whilst i wasn''t surprised to read the Murphy money wouldnt be reinvested i was surprised to read we still had an overdraft/debt to repay.

I thought the money from the previous sales (Dorrans, Howson etc) had enabled us to at least clear this and break even.

Club never ceases to amaze me!

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Come on people we were even skint after 4 seasons in the land of milk and honey ,never ever underestimate how easily money vanishes at this club no surprise at all that all we will see from the Murphy sale is another couple of non league Germans .

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]The point I was making was you trying to turn it into an argument about individual board members. Not your views on the article.[/quote]Says the poster who named Bowkett in the first place and who sees being questioned on it as an argument.Come off it Nutty or is this a do as i say and not a do as i do moment. I was staggered that you mentioned Bowkett in the same sentence as mismanagement. I have never ever seen him mentioned by name in that scenario except by you and if you do not like me following you up on it that is a poor show. The broad brush approach taken by Steve Stone about past regimes seems to have triggered the Bowkett button in your mind for some reason but not in mine.

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Doubt Webber will stick around too long for this mess, but at least the Smiths get a day out at the football with their mum and nephew

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To be honest greenthumb i am surprised he left Huddersfield ok we can say money / salary and Huddersfield were not up when he left but they are a PL club now

did he jump to soon ????

i am sure he would of got a bonus new contract for his hard work if he would of stayed ??

Time will tell was it Wagner all along was it a mixture of both was it all Webber ???????

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I''m a believer in Webbers ability, he is bringing the much needed mix of youth, connections and dynamics to the club, I''d imagine he has been sold a dud though in exactly what he has to work with. There''s a major problem that a club can''t afford players after the amount of money they have received, not just this summer, but January too. I appreciate the wage bill was extortionate. But come on, of all the premier league money has been outweighed by wage bills and transfer fees, I''m not convinced. The sooner the poison two are out of the club, the better

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[quote user="TIL 1010"][quote user="nutty nigel"]The point I was making was you trying to turn it into an argument about individual board members. Not your views on the article.[/quote]Says the poster who named Bowkett in the first place and who sees being questioned on it as an argument.Come off it Nutty or is this a do as i say and not a do as i do moment. I was staggered that you mentioned Bowkett in the same sentence as mismanagement. I have never ever seen him mentioned by name in that scenario except by you and if you do not like me following you up on it that is a poor show. The broad brush approach taken by Steve Stone about past regimes seems to have triggered the Bowkett button in your mind for some reason but not in mine.[/quote]
This is my post.
[quote user="nutty nigel"]I struggle with all this TBH. We are now told that the club was mismanaged by Bowkett and McNally. I don''t really see that. We did the best we could for a club rising so quickly and they managed to get us back after we were relegated in 2014. But that difference in income would be difficult for anyone to negotiate. How would you guys get around it? Especially those of you who don''t want the club to be debt free?[/quote]

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